No firearms in Australia

[jon_berzerk]

your position simply isnt true

What part? They are having stabbings in Israel, not mass shootings. Their strong gun control seems to work well.

what the fuck are you talking about

tthe frequently get into wars with the extremists you ninny

Those take place in the Palestinian areas. And even then many Palestinians are throwing rocks. Mass shootings almost never happen inside Israel. Watch the news, their extremists have to resort to knives because of the strong gun control.

what the fuck are you rambling about now

hamas has several times attacked Israel with more then knives butthead

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

 

[2aguy]

And as to the suicide rate…….



The Science is Settled: Guns Don't Cause Crime - The Truth About Guns

For example, Canada has had “strictly regulated handguns for more than a century” and required the registration of all handguns “since 1934.” Yet, although the northern-most U.S. states adjoining Canada “have a three to ten-fold higher prevalence of handgun ownership… no consistent differences were observed in violent homicide rates.”

In other words, in the absence of guns Canadians prone to violence were able to find other lethal means to use.

A 2007 study in the Harvard Journal of Law and Public Policy made this same point based on suicide numbers in England following gun bans there.

According to the study, while gun control advocates were celebrating a drop in the number of firearms used in suicides, they overlooked the fact that suicides among “English youth” actually rose as a growing number of people simply found other ways to kill themselves.

The gun is not the culprit. Rather, the person intent on assaulting or killing another person is the culprit.

 

[2aguy]

I still don't see an answer to my question.
Maybe you missed it, I'll ask again:

Violent crime fell 51% from 1993 to 2014.
There are at least 100,000,000 more guns than in 1993
What does that tell you?

You shall now avoid the question, for the third time.

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

gun ownership went up and crime went down

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

The number of guns the same people have appears to have little to do with crime rates. The proportion of people with guns seems to be connected to gun violence and crime rates. As gun ownership rates fall and crime falls. Here and in Australia.

With suicide rates *also* dropping in Australia as gun ownership rates fell. As higher suicide rates and gun ownership are strongly linked as you've already admitted. So lower gun ownership rates have benefits on multiple angles.

The U.S. And the gun crime rate in Australia is going back up.....gun ownership levels in Australia are now back up to where they were before the confiscation....

Violent crime rates are significantly lower. With the number of murders down about 1/3rd since 1996 despite the population increasing by about 1/3rd.

And here is the myth of low ownership low crime….
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

International evidence and comparisons have long been offered as proof of the mantra that more guns mean more deaths and that fewer guns, therefore, mean fewer deaths.1 Unfortunately, such discussions are all too often been afflicted by misconceptions and factual error and focus on comparisons that are unrepresentative. It may be useful to begin with a few examples. There is a com‐ pound assertion that (a) guns are uniquely available in the United States compared with other modern developed nations, which is why (b) the United States has by far the highest murder rate. Though these assertions have been endlessly repeated, statement (b) is, in fact, false and statement (a) is substantially so.

*******************

While American gun ownership is quite high, Table 1 shows many other developed nations (e.g., Norway, Finland, Germany, France, Denmark) with high rates of gun ownership. These countries, however, have murder rates as low or lower than many devel‐ oped nations in which gun ownership is much rarer. For example, Luxembourg, where handguns are totally banned and ownership of any kind of gun is minimal, had a murder rate nine times higher than Germany in 2002.9

****************

In this connection, two recent studies are pertinent. In 2004, the U.S. National Academy of Sciences released its evaluation from a review of 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, and some original empirical research. It failed to identify any gun control that had reduced violent crime, sui‐ cide, or gun accidents.15 The same conclusion was reached in 2003 by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control’s review of then‐ extant studies.16

 

[Brain357]

What part? They are having stabbings in Israel, not mass shootings. Their strong gun control seems to work well.

what the fuck are you talking about

tthe frequently get into wars with the extremists you ninny

Those take place in the Palestinian areas. And even then many Palestinians are throwing rocks. Mass shootings almost never happen inside Israel. Watch the news, their extremists have to resort to knives because of the strong gun control.

what the fuck are you rambling about now

hamas has several times attacked Israel with more then knives butthead

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

Not in areas policed by Israel. You failed to answer my question.

 

[Blackrook]

I think it's great that everyone can pop into this thread and drop their own set of statistics, however, keep this in mind:

There's three kind of lies:

1) Lies

2) Damn lies. and

3) Statistics

Also, I would like to say that this thread and all other threads like this are a complete waste of time.

The right to keep and bear arms is protected by the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Liberals who demand that we acknowledge a constitutional right of women to have abortions, cannot turn around and say that people should be disarmed despite the constitution.

Also, people who get beat up or raped (gays, women) should be the strongest advocate for unrestricted gun ownership.

Pink Pistols – Pick On Someone Your Own Caliber

The police aren't going to get there in time.

 

[jon_berzerk]

what the fuck are you talking about

tthe frequently get into wars with the extremists you ninny

Those take place in the Palestinian areas. And even then many Palestinians are throwing rocks. Mass shootings almost never happen inside Israel. Watch the news, their extremists have to resort to knives because of the strong gun control.

what the fuck are you rambling about now

hamas has several times attacked Israel with more then knives butthead

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

Not in areas policed by Israel. You failed to answer my question.

you didnt have a question

you attempted to forward a false narrative

 

[Skylar]

Like you're avoiding my question about gun ownership rates?

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

gun ownership went up and crime went down

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

The number of guns the same people have appears to have little to do with crime rates. The proportion of people with guns seems to be connected to gun violence and crime rates. As gun ownership rates fall and crime falls. Here and in Australia.

With suicide rates *also* dropping in Australia as gun ownership rates fell. As higher suicide rates and gun ownership are strongly linked as you've already admitted. So lower gun ownership rates have benefits on multiple angles.

The U.S. And the gun crime rate in Australia is going back up.....gun ownership levels in Australia are now back up to where they were before the confiscation....

Violent crime rates are significantly lower. With the number of murders down about 1/3rd since 1996 despite the population increasing by about 1/3rd.

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

Not true…..the General Social Survey…where the anti gunners are getting that little factoid is led by an anti gunner….he hopes that his info. will encourage politicians to enact more gun control…

His survey asks strangers if they own guns….and then expects them to tell him the truth….

Gun ownership is at all time highs….

Says you, ignoring any poll that contradicts you. That's not actually evidence. That's just plain old confirmation bias. Where you ignore any source that doesn't ape what you already believe. And then make up your own narrative, which you can't back up factually.

Polling has shown a steady decline in gun ownership rates. You're equating gun sales with gun ownership rates. And they aren't the same thing. Instead, you have the same people buying more guns. With fewer people in general owning them.

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

 

[2aguy]

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

gun ownership went up and crime went down

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

The number of guns the same people have appears to have little to do with crime rates. The proportion of people with guns seems to be connected to gun violence and crime rates. As gun ownership rates fall and crime falls. Here and in Australia.

With suicide rates *also* dropping in Australia as gun ownership rates fell. As higher suicide rates and gun ownership are strongly linked as you've already admitted. So lower gun ownership rates have benefits on multiple angles.

The U.S. And the gun crime rate in Australia is going back up.....gun ownership levels in Australia are now back up to where they were before the confiscation....

Violent crime rates are significantly lower. With the number of murders down about 1/3rd since 1996 despite the population increasing by about 1/3rd.

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

Not true…..the General Social Survey…where the anti gunners are getting that little factoid is led by an anti gunner….he hopes that his info. will encourage politicians to enact more gun control…

His survey asks strangers if they own guns….and then expects them to tell him the truth….

Gun ownership is at all time highs….

Says you, ignoring any poll that contradicts you. That's not actually evidence. That's just plain old confirmation bias. Where you ignore any source that doesn't ape what you already believe. And then make up your own narrative, which you can't back up factually.

Polling has shown a steady decline in gun ownership rates. You're equating gun sales with gun ownership rates. And they aren't the same thing. Instead, you have the same people buying more guns. With fewer people in general owning them.

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

No, polling hasn't. The only poll to show that is the General Social Survey…other polls disagree and you believe that in this environment that law abiding gun owners who are aware of the issues surrounding gun ownership are telling complete strangers that they own guns…….not even close.

And sorry…..America has the highest level of gun ownership it has ever had and the gun crime rate has gone down. Australia confiscated their guns and have extreme gun control and their gun ownership levels are back to where they were before confiscation…..and their gun crime is increasing...

 

[2aguy]

Red herring,. You haven't answered my question, so, there no reason form to address yours.
The US saw a 51% decrease in violent crime 1993-2014, with a 100,000,000+ increase in the number of guns.
What does that tell you?

Nope. Its immediately relevant. As selling more guns to the same people doesn't seem to have much to do with crime. While fewer people having guns does seem to have and effect on reducing crime.

As crime went down in both the US and Australia as the gun ownership rates dropped. With the same pattern in both places. Yet you refuse to even discuss it.

Why is that?

gun ownership went up and crime went down

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

The number of guns the same people have appears to have little to do with crime rates. The proportion of people with guns seems to be connected to gun violence and crime rates. As gun ownership rates fall and crime falls. Here and in Australia.

With suicide rates *also* dropping in Australia as gun ownership rates fell. As higher suicide rates and gun ownership are strongly linked as you've already admitted. So lower gun ownership rates have benefits on multiple angles.

The U.S. And the gun crime rate in Australia is going back up.....gun ownership levels in Australia are now back up to where they were before the confiscation....

Violent crime rates are significantly lower. With the number of murders down about 1/3rd since 1996 despite the population increasing by about 1/3rd.

Gun ownership rates did not go up. They went down. The number of guns increased.......while the gun ownership rates fell. Meaning that the same people bought more guns.

Not true…..the General Social Survey…where the anti gunners are getting that little factoid is led by an anti gunner….he hopes that his info. will encourage politicians to enact more gun control…

His survey asks strangers if they own guns….and then expects them to tell him the truth….

Gun ownership is at all time highs….

Says you, ignoring any poll that contradicts you. That's not actually evidence. That's just plain old confirmation bias. Where you ignore any source that doesn't ape what you already believe. And then make up your own narrative, which you can't back up factually.

Polling has shown a steady decline in gun ownership rates. You're equating gun sales with gun ownership rates. And they aren't the same thing. Instead, you have the same people buying more guns. With fewer people in general owning them.

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

One poll by an anti gun pollster vs. unbiased polls that disagree…

Is gun ownership really down in America? | Fox News

Surely, gun control advocates such as GSS director Tom Smith view this decline as a good thing. In a 2003 book of mine, I quoted Smith as saying that the large drop in gun ownership would “make it easier for politicians to do the right thing on guns” and pass more restrictive regulations.

Other gun control advocates have mentioned to me that they hope that if people believe fewer people own guns, that may cause others to rethink their decision to own one themselves. It is part of the reason they dramatically exaggerate the risks of having guns in the home.

The Associated Press and Time ignored other polls by Gallup and ABC News/Washington Post.

These polls show that gun ownership rates have been flat over the same period. According to Gallup, household gun ownership has ranged from 51 percent in 1994 to 34 percent in 1999. In 2014, it was at 42 percent – comparable to the 43-45 percent figures during the 1970s.

A 2011 Gallup poll with the headline “Self-Reported Gun Ownership in U.S. Is Highest Since 1993” appears to have gotten no news coverage.

The ABC News/Washington Post poll shows an even more stable pattern, with household gun ownership between 44 and 46 percent in 1999. In 2013, the ownership rate was 43 percent.

There are other measures that suggest that we should be very careful of relying too heavily on polling to gauge the level of gun ownership. For example, the nationally number of concealed handgun permits has soared over the last decade: rising from about 2.7 million in 1999 to 4.6 million in 2007 to 11.1 million in 2014.

The National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows that the number of gun purchases has grown dramatically over time –doubling from 2006 to 2014.


So one poll…by a known anti gun pollster is what you rely on…vs. all the other polls that say you are wrong….

 

[M14 Shooter]

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

Yes.... and so...
If it doesn't seem to matter much if Bubba owns 2 guns or 10 guns, why restrict his rights in an effort to make it harder for him to buy guns 3 through 10?

 

[Brain357]

Those take place in the Palestinian areas. And even then many Palestinians are throwing rocks. Mass shootings almost never happen inside Israel. Watch the news, their extremists have to resort to knives because of the strong gun control.

what the fuck are you rambling about now

hamas has several times attacked Israel with more then knives butthead

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

Not in areas policed by Israel. You failed to answer my question.

you didnt have a question

you attempted to forward a false narrative

The guns aren't where israel polices. Hence why they must resort to knives. Israel gun control works.

 

[Skylar]

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

Yes.... and so...
If it doesn't seem to matter much if Bubba owns 2 guns or 10 guns, why restrict his rights in an effort to make it harder for him to buy guns 3 through 10?

And so, if a law that made it harder for him to buy gun 3 through 10 also lowered the number of people that had guns and there seems to be a connection between lower gun ownership rates in the US and lower crime.....then such a law would encourage lower crime.

 

[Skylar]

what the fuck are you rambling about now

hamas has several times attacked Israel with more then knives butthead

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

Not in areas policed by Israel. You failed to answer my question.

you didnt have a question

you attempted to forward a false narrative

The guns aren't where israel polices. Hence why they must resort to knives. Israel gun control works.

Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

 

[turtledude]

[
Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

also makes self defense for the older and females easier

all gun control does is make it much tougher on good people to get guns while not really hampering those willing to break laws much at all

but then again, no one with a brain actually believes banoid policies are about crime control

 

[Skylar]

[
Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

also makes self defense for the older and females easier

This is very true. In terms of the uses of force, guns are an amazing equalizer. The flip side of that is that guns makes domestic violence far more lethal. As well as increasing suicide rates.

 

[turtledude]

[
Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

also makes self defense for the older and females easier

This is very true. In terms of the uses of force, guns are an amazing equalizer. The flip side of that is that guns makes domestic violence far more lethal. As well as increasing suicide rates.

suicide rates are not a crime problem and have no real value in a criminology based approach since by definition, you cannot deter suicides by a threat of punishment nor can you use any proper screening protocol to prevent someone from using a gun for that purpose since most suicides are not banned from owning weapons.

 

[2aguy]

[
Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

also makes self defense for the older and females easier

This is very true. In terms of the uses of force, guns are an amazing equalizer. The flip side of that is that guns makes domestic violence far more lethal. As well as increasing suicide rates.

Nope…what makes domestic violence happen at all is a history of violent, anti social behavior long before the murder, a history of police contact to the home, drug use, alcohol abuse and a criminal record…that is what causes lethality in domestic disputes…

Take away the history of violent behavior, the drug addiction, alcohol addiction, and criminal background….and you don't have domestic violence….

If you are not a drug addict, alcoholic, violent person with a criminal record…and you have a gun in the home..that gun is not going to murder anyone……..

The myth of the gun being deadly is just that…a myth…the problem is the violent jerk the wife married….

 

[jon_berzerk]

And where do they attack from?

so you admit they use more then knives after all

Not in areas policed by Israel. You failed to answer my question.

you didnt have a question

you attempted to forward a false narrative

The guns aren't where israel polices. Hence why they must resort to knives. Israel gun control works.

Guns make killing easier and more efficient. The lack of guns doesn't eliminate murder. But it does make it less efficient and harder to do.

Guns make killing easier and more efficient

i would beg to differ

if you have ever seen a wounded deer days after the firearms season

you wouldnt say that

 

[M14 Shooter]

The non-zero number of guns that a person owns doesn't seem to have much to do with crime rates. Fewer people owning guns does seem to have much to do with crime rates.

Yes.... and so...
If it doesn't seem to matter much if Bubba owns 2 guns or 10 guns, why restrict his rights in an effort to make it harder for him to buy guns 3 through 10?

And so, if a law that made it harder for him to buy gun 3 through 10 also lowered the number of people that had guns and there seems to be a connection between lower gun ownership rates in the US and lower crime.....then such a law would encourage lower crime.

Presuming again for the moment that your entire premise it true...
You arrgue that If i have 2 guns, me getting 8 more won't affect crime.
You may have an argument for restricting the rights of people who do not have a gun, but you do not have an argument for restricting MY right.

 

[2aguy]

Hmmmmm…I just found this…surprising that this hasn't been covered in obama's press conferences…..


'This is really getting out of control': Government responds to gangster gun culture



Melbourne is awash with guns, with senior police warning of an arms race "getting out of control" in Melbourne's north west.

A former firearms dealer told Fairfax Media that high-calibre semi-automatic handguns like the Glock and Sig Sauer were easily available to criminals via an extensive underground weapons importation and trafficking network.

"There hasn't been this much weaponry on the streets since the days of the underworld war," the source said. "It's now endemic and it's a real worry."
-----
The trade is largely controlled by outlaw motorcycle gangs, with an increasing number of guns originating from South East Asia, particularly the Philippines, the source said.

Senior police say young criminals are increasingly carrying guns because their rivals are armed.

"This is really getting out of control. A lot of these kids don't seem to grasp what they're doing. Drive-by shootings used to be a big deal, now it's a daily event around here," said a senior police source from city's north-west police region, dubbed the "red zone" by officers because of its soaring crime rate.

------

"While I'm reticent to buy into the terminology 'gangster culture', it is obvious that carrying firearms is more often a part of the criminal culture we are observing," he said.

But…..but…….they confiscated their guns…………right?

I keep pointing out that Australia is seeing an increase in gun crime…they are behind us but they are going to catch up……because their criminals will need more guns to fight off rivals………

What will Australia say when their gun crime goes up even after their gun ban?