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There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
Judaism does not for the most part prize forgiveness and charity for all.He taught his faith, Judaism.
Look at your quotes:
26. To love all human beings who are of the covenant
34. Not to curse any other Israelite
Why not treat everyone well, instead of just those in your own ethnic group?
Judaism is characterized by absurd legalism and ethnic chest-pounding.
Jesus was often critical of Judaism, the Pharisees for example.
Woes on the Pharisees and the Experts in the Law
37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. 38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal.
39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
43 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.
44 “Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which people walk over without knowing it.”
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”
46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
53 When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54 waiting to catch him in something he might say.
Judaism does not for the most part prize forgiveness and charity for all. Judaism is characterized instead by absurd legalism and ethnic chest-pounding.He taught his faith, Judaism.
Jesus was often critical of Judaism, the Pharisees for example.
Woes on the Pharisees and the Experts in the Law
37 When Jesus had finished speaking, a Pharisee invited him to eat with him; so he went in and reclined at the table. 38 But the Pharisee was surprised when he noticed that Jesus did not first wash before the meal.
39 Then the Lord said to him, “Now then, you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness. 40 You foolish people! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? 41 But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you.
42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.
43 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you love the most important seats in the synagogues and respectful greetings in the marketplaces.
44 “Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which people walk over without knowing it.”
45 One of the experts in the law answered him, “Teacher, when you say these things, you insult us also.”
46 Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
53 When Jesus went outside, the Pharisees and the teachers of the law began to oppose him fiercely and to besiege him with questions, 54 waiting to catch him in something he might say.
You are quoting the Jew Hating TNT.
Now find like verses in The Jewish Scriptures.
But wait! You can't because Paul Of Tarsus was a Full Of Shit, self-hating, Roman Ass Licking, Jew.
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
They are, they just combine them into one new name as Jesus.
Yeshu-Yehuda-Yehuda-Benjamin-Theudas all become the image called Jesus
Just as Saul, Sergius Paulus called Paul, Appollonius of Tyana calked Pol, all become one character Paul now...
Just as the Hanotzrim, the Nazarenes, the Yehudites, the Followers of Theudas, the Mithra devotees, the Krishna called Christos devotees all became called Christians later as those cults which followed a christ.
Just as Dagon became Baal and Baal became Jesus. Just as Sun worship combined with Baal Harvest, combined with Babylonian and Persian mystery religions and masked itself with Judaic monotheism yet 1 still equalled 3 so if they can sell them 3 gods in one are you so surprised that they sold people 3 messiahs as one?
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
They are, they just combine them into one new name as Jesus.
Yeshu-Yehuda-Yehuda-Benjamin-Theudas all become the image called Jesus
Just as Saul, Sergius Paulus called Paul, Appollonius of Tyana calked Pol, all become one character Paul now...
Just as the Hanotzrim, the Nazarenes, the Yehudites, the Followers of Theudas, the Mithra devotees, the Krishna called Christos devotees all became called Christians later as those cults which followed a christ.
Just as Dagon became Baal and Baal became Jesus. Just as Sun worship combined with Baal Harvest, combined with Babylonian and Persian mystery religions and masked itself with Judaic monotheism yet 1 still equalled 3 so if they can sell them 3 gods in one are you so surprised that they sold people 3 messiahs as one?
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
They are, they just combine them into one new name as Jesus.
Yeshu-Yehuda-Yehuda-Benjamin-Theudas all become the image called Jesus
Just as Saul, Sergius Paulus called Paul, Appollonius of Tyana calked Pol, all become one character Paul now...
Just as the Hanotzrim, the Nazarenes, the Yehudites, the Followers of Theudas, the Mithra devotees, the Krishna called Christos devotees all became called Christians later as those cults which followed a christ.
Just as Dagon became Baal and Baal became Jesus. Just as Sun worship combined with Baal Harvest, combined with Babylonian and Persian mystery religions and masked itself with Judaic monotheism yet 1 still equalled 3 so if they can sell them 3 gods in one are you so surprised that they sold people 3 messiahs as one?
Dear HaShev
If you can understand Jesus as JUSTICE
this spirit has been alive and has been driving humanity through our long difficult history and learning curve.
All roads point to JUSTICE. We all want to receive Justice in a way that saves us.
This is what JESUS embodies and represents, whether this is real or imagined that we can achieve
perfect JUSTICE, EQUAL JUSTICE, Peace and Justice. This is the meaning of Christ Jesus
name as RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. Where we agree we are looking at the same goal, we
can embrace and receive it more readily. that is the process humanity has been going through,
and again, the point of the road is to be fulfilled in the spirit of true Peace and Justice
everlasting and universally inclusive of all humanity reconciled as one, in perfect unity and harmony
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
no one remembers ROBIN HOOD? In fact there have been many "putative messiahs" in jewish history with some followers----more or less. Not actually fully
forgotten Just not of interest to you. In fact there have been Christian spiritual leaders too-------not forgotten-----some so interesting to their followers that they
have been declared "saints" and people pray to them. I have known people who
mumble at Saint Anthony if they misplaced their house keys. So he is not forgotten. Some jews considered BAR KOCHBA to be a possible messiah ----
you may not remember him but I do-------not as a 'messiah'-----but I do know the
name and his importance. SO??? Are you suggesting that the more people
who BELIEVE indicates the greater importance of the person? Lots of people used to believe (and I have come to the conclusion still do) that the EMPEROR OF JAPAN was a "GOD" ------or who ever is the current biggest shot over there.
The PHAROAH of Egypt was "DIVINE" for thousands of years. Even
MONTEZUMA was a "GOD"
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
They are, they just combine them into one new name as Jesus.
Yeshu-Yehuda-Yehuda-Benjamin-Theudas all become the image called Jesus
Just as Saul, Sergius Paulus called Paul, Appollonius of Tyana calked Pol, all become one character Paul now...
Just as the Hanotzrim, the Nazarenes, the Yehudites, the Followers of Theudas, the Mithra devotees, the Krishna called Christos devotees all became called Christians later as those cults which followed a christ.
Just as Dagon became Baal and Baal became Jesus. Just as Sun worship combined with Baal Harvest, combined with Babylonian and Persian mystery religions and masked itself with Judaic monotheism yet 1 still equalled 3 so if they can sell them 3 gods in one are you so surprised that they sold people 3 messiahs as one?
Dear HaShev
If you can understand Jesus as JUSTICE
this spirit has been alive and has been driving humanity through our long difficult history and learning curve.
All roads point to JUSTICE. We all want to receive Justice in a way that saves us.
This is what JESUS embodies and represents, whether this is real or imagined that we can achieve
perfect JUSTICE, EQUAL JUSTICE, Peace and Justice. This is the meaning of Christ Jesus
name as RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. Where we agree we are looking at the same goal, we
can embrace and receive it more readily. that is the process humanity has been going through,
and again, the point of the road is to be fulfilled in the spirit of true Peace and Justice
everlasting and universally inclusive of all humanity reconciled as one, in perfect unity and harmony
Why would Hashev "understand Jesus as justice" If I told you that I have an ancestor murdered on Christmas eve in the name of "jesus" -----simply because
he was a jewish child in the Ukraine------would you insist that I consider Jesus to
BE JUSTICE?. The number of people murdered in the name of Jesus----ie by people convinced that they were killing in "the name of Jesus"---runs into the 100s of millions in the past 2000 years----------Jesus never afforded lots of people "justice"-------his putative followers killed people for simple disbelief. What sort of
"justice" do you imagine Jesus accomplished by overturning the tables of the
temple courtyard money changers?-----who were the guilty parties and what was their guilt that would justify the action in the name of justice?
easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
no one remembers ROBIN HOOD? In fact there have been many "putative messiahs" in jewish history with some followers----more or less. Not actually fully
forgotten Just not of interest to you. In fact there have been Christian spiritual leaders too-------not forgotten-----some so interesting to their followers that they
have been declared "saints" and people pray to them. I have known people who
mumble at Saint Anthony if they misplaced their house keys. So he is not forgotten. Some jews considered BAR KOCHBA to be a possible messiah ----
you may not remember him but I do-------not as a 'messiah'-----but I do know the
name and his importance. SO??? Are you suggesting that the more people
who BELIEVE indicates the greater importance of the person? Lots of people used to believe (and I have come to the conclusion still do) that the EMPEROR OF JAPAN was a "GOD" ------or who ever is the current biggest shot over there.
The PHAROAH of Egypt was "DIVINE" for thousands of years. Even
MONTEZUMA was a "GOD"
Wait... Are we still arguing whether or not an actual Jesus person existed? Or has then again morphed into the more philosophical discussion of Jesus the Messiah and Son of God? Because I don't have any dog in that hunt. Jesus DID exist... whether he was a Messiah or miracle worker, whatever... that's a different question and I can't answer it. You're free to have whatever opinion you please on that. My argument is merely for the existence of the actual person in question.
There are records of several self-proclaimed Messiahs in Jewish histories of the time...
So why aren't any of these people remembered 2,000 years later?
They are, they just combine them into one new name as Jesus.
Yeshu-Yehuda-Yehuda-Benjamin-Theudas all become the image called Jesus
Just as Saul, Sergius Paulus called Paul, Appollonius of Tyana calked Pol, all become one character Paul now...
Just as the Hanotzrim, the Nazarenes, the Yehudites, the Followers of Theudas, the Mithra devotees, the Krishna called Christos devotees all became called Christians later as those cults which followed a christ.
Just as Dagon became Baal and Baal became Jesus. Just as Sun worship combined with Baal Harvest, combined with Babylonian and Persian mystery religions and masked itself with Judaic monotheism yet 1 still equalled 3 so if they can sell them 3 gods in one are you so surprised that they sold people 3 messiahs as one?
Dear HaShev
If you can understand Jesus as JUSTICE
this spirit has been alive and has been driving humanity through our long difficult history and learning curve.
All roads point to JUSTICE. We all want to receive Justice in a way that saves us.
This is what JESUS embodies and represents, whether this is real or imagined that we can achieve
perfect JUSTICE, EQUAL JUSTICE, Peace and Justice. This is the meaning of Christ Jesus
name as RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. Where we agree we are looking at the same goal, we
can embrace and receive it more readily. that is the process humanity has been going through,
and again, the point of the road is to be fulfilled in the spirit of true Peace and Justice
everlasting and universally inclusive of all humanity reconciled as one, in perfect unity and harmony
Why would Hashev "understand Jesus as justice" If I told you that I have an ancestor murdered on Christmas eve in the name of "jesus" -----simply because
he was a jewish child in the Ukraine------would you insist that I consider Jesus to
BE JUSTICE?. The number of people murdered in the name of Jesus----ie by people convinced that they were killing in "the name of Jesus"---runs into the 100s of millions in the past 2000 years----------Jesus never afforded lots of people "justice"-------his putative followers killed people for simple disbelief. What sort of
"justice" do you imagine Jesus accomplished by overturning the tables of the
temple courtyard money changers?-----who were the guilty parties and what was their guilt that would justify the action in the name of justice?
Dear irosie91
may I express my compassion and sorrow for your loss
the Bible also warns that those who are "antichrist" will come and claim authority in the
name of the law or the Lord, while instead being the opposite.
Clearly any killing in such a way that breaks the law
is INJUSTICE and not JUSTICE.
Sorry this was not clear, and my heart is saddened
to hear that you and your family suffered such a loss.
May this sad injustice find redemption, healing, and correction
that does speak to justice. If it is too late to change the factors
in the past that caused this, let the change be paid forward where the present and future
can be made better for it. May the loss not be in vain, but may the spirit move on to inspire
more people toward kindness and compassion that can end all killing, murder, and war.
When we as a society finally conquer our worst sides,
may we join in honoring all the fallen loved ones who may have died along the way.
We owe it to all who have lost their lives, to create a world where this is no more.
So sorry irosie91 and may I pray that all the souls in your family be uplifted
to the highest, where the spirit of what is good and best about humanity shines through,
and brings even greater blessings to you and your family and friends around you.
Take care!
May Justice be yours on the highest, most profound spiritual levels.
All the people around Jesus were real. They all shared stories of Jesus, many are almost exact.
His brother went on the be a leader of the Jerusalem temple.
I expect there was a real figure but they have been embellished to fit prophecy and/or to be similar enough to other gods, so convert feel more comfortable to pray to Jesus/god instead
Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ - RationalWiki
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
no one remembers ROBIN HOOD? In fact there have been many "putative messiahs" in jewish history with some followers----more or less. Not actually fully
forgotten Just not of interest to you. In fact there have been Christian spiritual leaders too-------not forgotten-----some so interesting to their followers that they
have been declared "saints" and people pray to them. I have known people who
mumble at Saint Anthony if they misplaced their house keys. So he is not forgotten. Some jews considered BAR KOCHBA to be a possible messiah ----
you may not remember him but I do-------not as a 'messiah'-----but I do know the
name and his importance. SO??? Are you suggesting that the more people
who BELIEVE indicates the greater importance of the person? Lots of people used to believe (and I have come to the conclusion still do) that the EMPEROR OF JAPAN was a "GOD" ------or who ever is the current biggest shot over there.
The PHAROAH of Egypt was "DIVINE" for thousands of years. Even
MONTEZUMA was a "GOD"
Wait... Are we still arguing whether or not an actual Jesus person existed? Or has then again morphed into the more philosophical discussion of Jesus the Messiah and Son of God? Because I don't have any dog in that hunt. Jesus DID exist... whether he was a Messiah or miracle worker, whatever... that's a different question and I can't answer it. You're free to have whatever opinion you please on that. My argument is merely for the existence of the actual person in question.
Ok I tend to believe that a person named Jesus DID exist. He was too TYPICAL a Pharisee jew of his time not to have existed. He is-----whether you believe it or not------everyman's Pharisee Itinerate preacher jew of the time of the Roman occupation of Israel/Judea. His death was also typical. The later writings of the NT confuse that issue a bit----but not enough to reject the reality of his existence if you read between the lines and have some understanding of the situation of that time. He was obviously literate and clearly of " the house of Hillel" in his approach-----which is very pharisee
Be advised that I also believe that a person named Odysseus existed.
I do not credit the ROBIN HOOD legend
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
no one remembers ROBIN HOOD? In fact there have been many "putative messiahs" in jewish history with some followers----more or less. Not actually fully
forgotten Just not of interest to you. In fact there have been Christian spiritual leaders too-------not forgotten-----some so interesting to their followers that they
have been declared "saints" and people pray to them. I have known people who
mumble at Saint Anthony if they misplaced their house keys. So he is not forgotten. Some jews considered BAR KOCHBA to be a possible messiah ----
you may not remember him but I do-------not as a 'messiah'-----but I do know the
name and his importance. SO??? Are you suggesting that the more people
who BELIEVE indicates the greater importance of the person? Lots of people used to believe (and I have come to the conclusion still do) that the EMPEROR OF JAPAN was a "GOD" ------or who ever is the current biggest shot over there.
The PHAROAH of Egypt was "DIVINE" for thousands of years. Even
MONTEZUMA was a "GOD"
Wait... Are we still arguing whether or not an actual Jesus person existed? Or has then again morphed into the more philosophical discussion of Jesus the Messiah and Son of God? Because I don't have any dog in that hunt. Jesus DID exist... whether he was a Messiah or miracle worker, whatever... that's a different question and I can't answer it. You're free to have whatever opinion you please on that. My argument is merely for the existence of the actual person in question.
Ok I tend to believe that a person named Jesus DID exist. He was too TYPICAL a Pharisee jew of his time not to have existed. He is-----whether you believe it or not------everyman's Pharisee Itinerate preacher jew of the time of the Roman occupation of Israel/Judea. His death was also typical. The later writings of the NT confuse that issue a bit----but not enough to reject the reality of his existence if you read between the lines and have some understanding of the situation of that time. He was obviously literate and clearly of " the house of Hillel" in his approach-----which is very pharisee
Be advised that I also believe that a person named Odysseus existed.
I do not credit the ROBIN HOOD legend
Home sweet Homer: Archaeologists find 'Odysseus's palace'
All the people around Jesus were real. They all shared stories of Jesus, many are almost exact.
His brother went on the be a leader of the Jerusalem temple.
I expect there was a real figure but they have been embellished to fit prophecy and/or to be similar enough to other gods, so convert feel more comfortable to pray to Jesus/god instead
Evidence for the historical existence of Jesus Christ - RationalWiki
you have some insight into who JOHN was------the one to whom the book of revelations was attributed? He does not seem "real" to me. Paul seems very real. Of course LUKE was real Taylor Caldwell even wrote his biography. Peter must have been real------he had a passport to ROME. Matthew seems kinda nebulous. Judas has to be real------there is one in every club
Was there lower-class Jewish preacher from the backwaters of rural Galilee who was condemned for illegal activities and crucified for crimes against the state? The idea seems more plausible than the subsequent claims that he was a divine being or even God himself, the greater plausibility making the theory an attractive compromise to the modern mind. But that plausibility is not by itself proof or even necessarily evidence.easy-----they were real people. Most real people in the world are forgotten
Ah... so real people who did exist are forgotten about while made up people who never existed are remembered for 2,000 years and can become, arguably, the most important person in human history?
Sounds a little nutty to me.
right------like ROBIN HOOD. Another person whose actual existence
remains unproven is-----MOSES --------and daffy duck
None of which have been remembered 2,000 years and become the most important person in human history.
no one remembers ROBIN HOOD? In fact there have been many "putative messiahs" in jewish history with some followers----more or less. Not actually fully
forgotten Just not of interest to you. In fact there have been Christian spiritual leaders too-------not forgotten-----some so interesting to their followers that they
have been declared "saints" and people pray to them. I have known people who
mumble at Saint Anthony if they misplaced their house keys. So he is not forgotten. Some jews considered BAR KOCHBA to be a possible messiah ----
you may not remember him but I do-------not as a 'messiah'-----but I do know the
name and his importance. SO??? Are you suggesting that the more people
who BELIEVE indicates the greater importance of the person? Lots of people used to believe (and I have come to the conclusion still do) that the EMPEROR OF JAPAN was a "GOD" ------or who ever is the current biggest shot over there.
The PHAROAH of Egypt was "DIVINE" for thousands of years. Even
MONTEZUMA was a "GOD"
Wait... Are we still arguing whether or not an actual Jesus person existed? Or has then again morphed into the more philosophical discussion of Jesus the Messiah and Son of God? Because I don't have any dog in that hunt. Jesus DID exist... whether he was a Messiah or miracle worker, whatever... that's a different question and I can't answer it. You're free to have whatever opinion you please on that. My argument is merely for the existence of the actual person in question.
To us, the idea of an entire faith centered around what we would consider a fictional character is hard to imagine. Not so for the early hearers of the Good News.
