No one is going to take your guns

[bendog]

Oh shit.

 

[JoeB131]

[

The National Parks Service and the Federal Government KNOW that failing to clear underbrush leads to disastrous fire conditions.

That's how they keep the environmentalists happy.

That's why they don't clear the underbrush and make things safer.

One could make the argument to the jury that taking chain or brush saws and disposing of the underbrush isn't what nature would do and a few animals might be pissed of.

Okay, That's a reasonable argument.

When lightning strikes sparking a forest fire, and the excessive underbrush causes the fire to spread quickly and get out of control, burning a fifth of the state of New Mexico, killing 10 firemen, killing 6 civilians ...
moving out of the National Park destroying $800 million worth of commercial timber and causing $250 million in damages to private property … Yeah, the government should be held liable.

Hit the government with a couple of massive lawsuits, they suddenly get more responsible.

.

Not to indulge your anti-government whacky too much, but in that situation, FEMA would declare an disaster area and property owners would be compensated, so I'm just not seeing the difference.

Now if you want to pay the taxes to hire the people to clear that underbrush and deadwood, then you might have a case the government isn't doing enough.

 

[JoeB131]

[

i swear, you get more ridiculous with every argument. how does a gun being resold or the knowledge it migh be resold put any responsibility on a gun manufacturer? they produce a product. it is inteneded to be sold with in the laws of the land. seriously, it is like saying any product that kills someone the manufacturer should be liable. Should stanley be held accountable for the 400 murders caused by hammers? Should ford, GM, Honda and all be held accountable for the 45,000 deaths or the 6,500,000 accidents a year and resulting injuries and damage. shoul they also be held responsible to corporations for the lost man hours as a result of those accidents?

Cars aren't designed to kill people.

Guns are.

But if you really want to go there, let's require every gun owner to be licensed, insured and registered, just like cars and their owners are. Let's have the police monitor gun ownership the way they monitor traffic. Somehow, I don't think you gun nuts would be up for that.

 

[Spoonman]

So, how's Obama gonna know that I have a pre-Brady Bill AK-47?

they won't unless you get caught with it. it will be interesting to see if ranges have to start checking if weapons are registered.

 

[daveman]

[
How is the manufacturer responsible for the third or fourth sale of a particular gun? How is the manufacturer responsible for a gun stolen then resold to another criminal?

Take your time. It's obvious you haven't given this any thought. At all. Whatsoever.

The gun manufacturers KNOW that some of these guns are going to be resold.

That's why they fight to keep the Gun Show Loophole open.

That's why they fight background checks and waiting periods.

Now, here's the thing.

One could make an argument to the jury that, "Hey, I sold to a responsible gun owner, I checked his background, made sure he had the proper licenses and insurance. Not my fault that someone broke into his house and stole his gun."

Okay, that's a reasonable argument.

The gun owner who says, "Hey, we sold our guns at a gun show to a guy with gang tats who smelled of his crystal meth lab, and the next day he went on a shooting rampage in the local mall". Yeah, that gun maker and seller ought to be held liable.

Hit them with a couple of lawsuits, they suddenly get more responsible.

Whoever dropped you on your head when you were an infant needs to be hit with a lawsuit.

Alcohol distillers know drunks use their product. Why don't you advocate suing them when drunks cause accidents?

Oh, yes -- because a populace armed with alcohol isn't going to successfully resist your proggy revolution.

 

[JoeB131]

um. No.

Again, I can see why this worries you guys. The minute a gun maker pays out a multi-million dollar lawsuit, is the day they start clamping down on who they sell guns to.

Kind of like when Big Tobacco had to pay out all those big settlements, they suddenly weren't so keen on selling cigarettes to 13 year olds.

Oh ... So business should be held liable ... And the government shouldn't?
Why shouldn't we sue the government for allowing cigarettes to be sold in the first place ... And getting an enormous windfall off taxes levied on a product they don't even produce?

.

Government is held liable. They are called "Elections". Maybe you've heard of them. Hint, it's that thing we do in November that your party keeps losing.

Incidently, you do wander into a valid point. Government's attitude on cigarettes is kind of like Maria Teresa's attitude on the partitions of Poland. The more she wept, the more she took.

The way I'd do it, no cigarette taxes, (which really hurt working people more than the tobacco companies), but they are strictly regulated by the FDA and you can't buy them without a doctor's note that he's examined you, worked with you to try to break your addiction and are not currently suffering any smoking related illnesses.

I'm just more interested in why you seem to want to bring every argument back to your hatred of government.

 

[daveman]

One more time, Dave, who has spent most of his life sucking away at the government teet?

I think that would be the guy who gets a monthly check for work he did years ago.

That would be you.

"I totally hate government taking away my freedom. Hey, where's my pension check!!!"

If you hadn't gotten your worthless ass thrown out of the Army, you could have earned a pension, too.

But the military frowns on meth use, don't they?

Actually, I left because after teh Gulf War, I didn't feel like getting killed for Oil Companies or Zionism.

Ahhh. "JOOOOOS!!" Not at all surprising.

.We've been over this, Dave.

Probably a good move, given I wouldn't have hit 20 years until 2006 (My first five years as a reservist not really counting towards retirement.)

Here's the thing, though. I wouldn't have collected a pension and then complained about poor children getting food being "Slavery" or an affront to my "Freedom".

Good thing I've never made that complaint, huh?

It's almost like you realize you're on the wrong side of this issue (just like every other issue) and you're lashing out in rage and frustration.

 

[Spoonman]

[

i swear, you get more ridiculous with every argument. how does a gun being resold or the knowledge it migh be resold put any responsibility on a gun manufacturer? they produce a product. it is inteneded to be sold with in the laws of the land. seriously, it is like saying any product that kills someone the manufacturer should be liable. Should stanley be held accountable for the 400 murders caused by hammers? Should ford, GM, Honda and all be held accountable for the 45,000 deaths or the 6,500,000 accidents a year and resulting injuries and damage. shoul they also be held responsible to corporations for the lost man hours as a result of those accidents?

Cars aren't designed to kill people.

Guns are.

But if you really want to go there, let's require every gun owner to be licensed, insured and registered, just like cars and their owners are. Let's have the police monitor gun ownership the way they monitor traffic. Somehow, I don't think you gun nuts would be up for that.

sure, but the let guns be allowed on public property. lets let anyone get any gun they can afford, just like a car. lets allow owners to have as many guns as they want just like cars. and allow owners to sell their guns to anyone they want with no background checks just like cars. and remember, if you chose not to use your car on a public road you don't need registration or insurance. oh yea, and lets also let gun owners accessorize their guns anyway they want, just like cars. remember, with cars you get to choose manual or full auto too. lets see if you gun grabbing liberals are really willing to put your money where your mouth is.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Whoever dropped you on your head when you were an infant needs to be hit with a lawsuit.

Alcohol distillers know drunks use their product. Why don't you advocate suing them when drunks cause accidents?

Oh, yes -- because a populace armed with alcohol isn't going to successfully resist your proggy revolution.

If a bar serves me to the point where I'm too drunk to drive and they keep serving me anyway, they can be held liable.

And frankly, if you think you are going to really resist democratically elected reforms with your guns, you are probably going to speed up the demise of your movement.

Just ask Timothy McVeigh how well that went.

So do you still have your dog-eared copy of The Turner Diaries?

 

[daveman]

He didn't "pay into it".

I worked for it. For 20 years.

And if he insists up and down that debt is wrong and we are spending too much and depdending on the government is "slavery", then maybe he needs to straighten out his own life, first, before trying to yank food out of the mouth of a hungry child.

What would Jesus do?

Jesus would donate to charity -- you know, like you refuse to do because in addition to being a coward, you're s stingy bastard.

No, I just don't make enough money to give to charity. Not after having to pay thousands of dollars in medical bills after I got cheated by my insurance company.

But to the point, guy, you talk about how you "deserve" that money. Not that you need that money, because you are supposedly soooo awesome you could easily earn your keep.

but you are more deserving of that money than a poor child who needs SNAP to put food in her stomach.

I think it kind of shows how messed up your priorities are and nowhere even close to what Jesus was talking about.

Why do you lie all the time? I've never said I deserve my pension. I say I've earned it.

Of course, you hate the idea of having to earn what you get, don't you? That's why you're a Communist.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Of course, you hate the idea of having to earn what you get, don't you? That's why you're a Communist.

The success of others is a cancer to Joe.

Like a scorned fat chick.

 

[BlackSand]

I'm just more interested in why you seem to want to bring every argument back to your hatred of government.

What makes you think I hate the government ... Do you think holding the government accountable and liable for their failures that cost life and property is a measure of hatred?

.

 

[JoeB131]

If you hadn't gotten your worthless ass thrown out of the Army, you could have earned a pension, too.

But the military frowns on meth use, don't they?

Actually, I left because after teh Gulf War, I didn't feel like getting killed for Oil Companies or Zionism.

Ahhh. "JOOOOOS!!" Not at all surprising.

.We've been over this, Dave.

Probably a good move, given I wouldn't have hit 20 years until 2006 (My first five years as a reservist not really counting towards retirement.)

Here's the thing, though. I wouldn't have collected a pension and then complained about poor children getting food being "Slavery" or an affront to my "Freedom".

Good thing I've never made that complaint, huh?

It's almost like you realize you're on the wrong side of this issue (just like every other issue) and you're lashing out in rage and frustration.

Guy, you've made it very clear we should cut programs designed to help poor people....for their own good, of course.

The Republican Mantra- "I got mine, Fuck You."

 

[Spoonman]

um. No.

Again, I can see why this worries you guys. The minute a gun maker pays out a multi-million dollar lawsuit, is the day they start clamping down on who they sell guns to.

Kind of like when Big Tobacco had to pay out all those big settlements, they suddenly weren't so keen on selling cigarettes to 13 year olds.

Oh ... So business should be held liable ... And the government shouldn't?
Why shouldn't we sue the government for allowing cigarettes to be sold in the first place ... And getting an enormous windfall off taxes levied on a product they don't even produce?

.

Government is held liable. They are called "Elections". Maybe you've heard of them. Hint, it's that thing we do in November that your party keeps losing.

Incidently, you do wander into a valid point. Government's attitude on cigarettes is kind of like Maria Teresa's attitude on the partitions of Poland. The more she wept, the more she took.

The way I'd do it, no cigarette taxes, (which really hurt working people more than the tobacco companies), but they are strictly regulated by the FDA and you can't buy them without a doctor's note that he's examined you, worked with you to try to break your addiction and are not currently suffering any smoking related illnesses.

I'm just more interested in why you seem to want to bring every argument back to your hatred of government.

the government makes more money on a pack of cigarettes than the tobacco companies do, by a wide margin. the FDA has done nothing to make cigarettes safer. name one politician who has ever been held liable for smoking related illness. once again more utter bullshit you spew

 

[JoeB131]

I'm just more interested in why you seem to want to bring every argument back to your hatred of government.

What makes you think I hate the government ... Do you think holding the government accountable and liable for their failures that cost life and property is a measure of hatred?

.

Yeah, actually, you really are coming off like a nutter.

 

[OODA_Loop]

The Republican Mantra- "I got mine, Fuck You."

Joe can't get his.

So he is angry at those who can.

 

[BlackSand]

Not to indulge your anti-government whacky too much, but in that situation, FEMA would declare an disaster area and property owners would be compensated, so I'm just not seeing the difference.

Now if you want to pay the taxes to hire the people to clear that underbrush and deadwood, then you might have a case the government isn't doing enough.

My analogy is no different or less valid than yours ... So If you think I am whacky ... That makes you whacky.
Personally I don't hate the government ... Just think they need to be more responsible for their actions ... And liable when they cause damage.
Not to mention it would be pretty hard for FEMA to compensate the dead.

.

 

[JoeB131]

[
Why do you lie all the time? I've never said I deserve my pension. I say I've earned it.

Of course, you hate the idea of having to earn what you get, don't you? That's why you're a Communist.

Distinction without a difference. "earned" or "deserved", the point is, you think that we should to cut programs that we actually NEED, but we better not cut your monthly check.

Frankly, paying retirees adds NOTHING to national defense. And unlike let's say, retirees on social security, you are more than capable of working...

 

[JoeB131]

The Republican Mantra- "I got mine, Fuck You."

Joe can't get his.

So he is angry at those who can.

NO, here's the thing. I have no desire to own a dressage horse or a mansion.

And if you want to make that what your life is about, have at it.

BUt for those who do- you can't abuse the people who do the actual work and you pay your fair share of taxes.

because the country runs better that way.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Frankly, paying retirees adds NOTHING to national defense. And unlike let's say, retirees on social security, you are more than capable of working...

Sounds like some sad puppy lost their military pension.