Not the view you were looking for: A conservative woman's view on abortion

[TemplarKormac]

A brain dead person can be kept artificially alive by a machine that keeps the heart pumping. Is it "alive"?

Really? Nice. Not even the best kicker in the NFL can kick a football through those goalposts.

 

[Coyote]

A brain dead person can be kept artificially alive by a machine that keeps the heart pumping. Is it "alive"?

Really? Nice. Not even the best kicker in the NFL can kick a football through those goalposts.

It's not as big a stretch as you think.

What the end of life? What defines the beginning of life?

 

[TemplarKormac]

No. It might. Just like an acorn might grow into an oak, or might rot, or might become squirrel food.

Your fantastic logic has no base in reality. Your use of the word "might" is a convenient cover, but when a woman gets pregnant, the becoming a human being is almost a certainty, unless that process is interrupted.

I have shoes with no soles, does that mean my shoes are no longer shoes?

 

[TemplarKormac]

A brain dead person can be kept artificially alive by a machine that keeps the heart pumping. Is it "alive"?

Really? Nice. Not even the best kicker in the NFL can kick a football through those goalposts.

It's not as big a stretch as you think.

What the end of life? What defines the beginning of life?

The thing is, even a brain dead person is still considered a person until they pull the plug. I already told you what life is. The end of life is death, the beginning of life is when the essence of your being begins to develop in the womb.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Your claim that the fetus constitutes a "separate life" is wrong regardless of how life is defined because it is not separate. Whether we use your definition of life, mine, or Santa Claus's - your claim is still not true.

I've yet to make a claim about that yet. I asked for your definition of the term we're arguing about. You're still failing to provide this. Please tell me what you think it is.

If you want the definition of life, look it up. It's not relevant to this discussion. That, is in fact, the entire problem with the anti-woman argument - you think its about the definition of life. Its not.

I do know the definition of life. I asked you to definite it because your point was that there are not two separate lives. You made it about life. I'm just trying to force you to be honest about what you're talking about and define your terms.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't know why you're still trying, TemplarKormac. The science serves the agenda for these people, not the other way around.

Well, I find it to be an obligation to defend the right to life of an unborn child, and science is on my side.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Your claim that the fetus constitutes a "separate life" is wrong regardless of how life is defined because it is not separate. Whether we use your definition of life, mine, or Santa Claus's - your claim is still not true.

I've yet to make a claim about that yet. I asked for your definition of the term we're arguing about. You're still failing to provide this. Please tell me what you think it is.

If you want the definition of life, look it up. It's not relevant to this discussion. That, is in fact, the entire problem with the anti-woman argument - you think its about the definition of life. Its not.

I do know the definition of life. I asked you to definite it because your point was that there are not two separate lives. You made it about life. I'm just trying to force you to be honest about what you're talking about and define your terms.

No, my point is that they are not SEPARATE, regardless of how life is defined. Fucks sakes how many times do I have to repeat myself? Are you dumb?



I would like to know one thing, though. If I can prove I'm one of many people with a "vanishing twin" inside of me, would that mean I get two votes in your fucked up world?

 

[Coyote]

No. It might. Just like an acorn might grow into an oak, or might rot, or might become squirrel food.

Your fantastic logic has no base in reality. Your use of the word "might" is a convenient cover, but when a woman gets pregnant, the becoming a human being is almost a certainty, unless that process is interrupted.

I have shoes with no soles, does that mean my shoes are no longer shoes?

Oh for gosh sakes. Let's look at actual numbers:

Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics
As many as 75% of all conceptions miscarry.
This statistic is an estimate for the percentage of fertilized eggs that do not go on to result in a full-term pregnancy, factoring in miscarriages but also failed implantations that usually pass without the mother ever missing a period.

You see why it's "might"?

 

[Coyote]

I don't know why you're still trying, TemplarKormac. The science serves the agenda for these people, not the other way around.

Well, I find it to be an obligation to defend the right to life of an unborn child, and science is on my side.

Then go beyond words - offer to carry a fetus, don't make the poor woman do it for you.

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

No, my point is that they are not SEPARATE, regardless of how life is defined. Fucks sakes how many times do I have to repeat myself? Are you dumb?

You've stated multiple times that you don't believe they are separate lives. Your entire case in that post revolved around the mother and child not being separate lives. You've adamantly refused to define what you define a life to be in the first place. As far as I can tell, you have no idea what the term even means. You really don't see the intellectual dishonesty there?

 

[Coyote]

Well, good discussion...but it's 1:13am for me and I am so going to hate myself when I have to get up at 6:30am.

Good night

 

[Pedro de San Patricio]

Good night

I know that feels. Night!

 

[Ernie S.]

I
“Well, look abortion is obviously a very delicate subject, she replied. "I happen to believe that science is proving us right. The DNA in a zygote is the same as the DNA the day you die, we do have common ground on this issue now.”

So identical twins only count as one person?

I don't get the argument. Is Fiorina saying that a human being is nothing more than a strand of DNA?

I shouldn't expect more than a stupid response from you but shit man.

Do identical twins not have identical DNA? Were they not once part of the same fertilized embryo - and hence - by your logic - one person?


That's an interesting change in the definition of personhood. I never thought that a person could split into two different people.

No.....

 

[TemplarKormac]

No. It might. Just like an acorn might grow into an oak, or might rot, or might become squirrel food.

Your fantastic logic has no base in reality. Your use of the word "might" is a convenient cover, but when a woman gets pregnant, the becoming a human being is almost a certainty, unless that process is interrupted.

I have shoes with no soles, does that mean my shoes are no longer shoes?

Oh for gosh sakes. Let's look at actual numbers:

Making Sense of Miscarriage Statistics
As many as 75% of all conceptions miscarry.
This statistic is an estimate for the percentage of fertilized eggs that do not go on to result in a full-term pregnancy, factoring in miscarriages but also failed implantations that usually pass without the mother ever missing a period.

You see why it's "might"?

Yeeeah, "conceptions" not births. Please, kindly, find your nearest dictionary and read it. I'm talking about the fertilized eggs that DO result in a full term pregnancy.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Then go beyond words - offer to carry a fetus, don't make the poor woman do it for you.

You really are quite facetious tonight aren't you? Why don't you volunteer to be the fetus, then?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Good night

Good night. I will look forward to staying up for another five hours. Insomnia...why does it have to be the insomnia..

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

No, my point is that they are not SEPARATE, regardless of how life is defined. Fucks sakes how many times do I have to repeat myself? Are you dumb?

You've stated multiple times that you don't believe they are separate lives. Your entire case in that post revolved around the mother and child not being separate lives. You've adamantly refused to define what you define a life to be in the first place. As far as I can tell, you have no idea what the term even means. You really don't see the intellectual dishonesty there?

Hello? Can you read at all? Do you know what the following English words mean: MY ARGUMENT DOES NOT DEPEND ON THE DEFINITION OF LIFE ? Can you comprehend that? Do we need to go through the sentence word by word to make sure you can understand it? Will you please, for the love of your woman hating God, STOP BEING A FUCKING MORON.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I
“Well, look abortion is obviously a very delicate subject, she replied. "I happen to believe that science is proving us right. The DNA in a zygote is the same as the DNA the day you die, we do have common ground on this issue now.”

So identical twins only count as one person?

I don't get the argument. Is Fiorina saying that a human being is nothing more than a strand of DNA?

I shouldn't expect more than a stupid response from you but shit man.

Do identical twins not have identical DNA? Were they not once part of the same fertilized embryo - and hence - by your logic - one person?


That's an interesting change in the definition of personhood. I never thought that a person could split into two different people.

No.....

Uhh, yeah. If being an embryo and having DNA makes you a 'person', then the 0.2% of the population that are identical twins are all legally only half people. It also means the up to 10% of the population that have a "vanishing twin" inside them somewhere are legally, two people. That is, if you choose to define a "person" as beginning at conception.

The supposedly pro-science right wing refuses to admit the plasticity of personhood within the womb that, in the vanishing twin case, can occur even through the end of the first trimester without complication. How the heck can something be a "person" when you can't even reliably count how many "persons" it is?

In fact, when you consider that the majority of pregnancies that start as twins wind up being singletons, its kinda hard to argue that even God values early fetal life very much. If He did, why the Hell would He kill most of them?

 

[ninja007]

millions of innocent babies are killed every year, mostly by libs and we don't hear a peep about it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

millions of innocent babies are killed every year, mostly by libs and we don't hear a peep about it.

Actually most unborn babies that are killed are killed by God.