Obama cannot raise the debt ceiling

[Hoffstra]

The Constitution is clear: Congress has the power to borrow money.

NOT the President.

That means that Obama cannot unilaterally raise the debt ceiling or allow/order Treasury to sell more bonds.

But, the Constitution (14th Amendment) also says that the validity of the debt cannot be questioned. I believe that means that Obama would have the authority to prioritize spending so that debts are paid before any other spending. This might prevent a default.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Obama acting like a grown up might prevent a default too

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Congress spent the money and now the Rs don't want to make good on their promise to pay.

Republicans do not work for the United States. They are traitors and will do anything to bring our country down.

 

[Duped]

Obama will abolish the debt limit before he capitulates by some presidential, arbitrary conjure!

 

[Hoffstra]

You know, after some careful thinking and reading, I think the debt ceiling may in fact be unConstitutional.

Any law that compromises our ability to pay back any of our debts, is illegal...as per the 14th Amendment.

If Treasury says that the only we can finance our obligations is by incurring more debt, then we muct incur more debt. Congress approved the spending and only Congress can unapprove it.

So, until Congress unapproves the spending, we muct borrow money to finance it if revenue won't cut it.

if the debt ceiling gets in the way, its unConstitutional.

On October 18th, the debt ceiling may prevent us from financing the spending Congress has approved. That would make it unConstitutional.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Couldn't he tell the fed to print a trillion dollars?

 

[Sallow]

You know, after some careful thinking and reading, I think the debt ceiling may in fact be unConstitutional.

Any law that compromises our ability to pay back any of our debts, is illegal...as per the 14th Amendment.

If Treasury says that the only we can finance our obligations is by incurring more debt, then we muct incur more debt. Congress approved the spending and only Congress can unapprove it.

So, until Congress unapproves the spending, we muct borrow money to finance it if revenue won't cut it.

if the debt ceiling gets in the way, its unConstitutional.

On October 18th, the debt ceiling may prevent us from financing the spending Congress has approved. That would make it unConstitutional.

Of course it is.

And I have no idea why no one has challenged it.

Maybe that's something that's up Obama's sleeve.

 

[Sallow]

Couldn't he tell the fed to print a trillion dollars?

Yeah.

But that would bring about a real Constitutional crisis.

 

[Sallow]

Obama acting like a grown up might prevent a default too

He is acting like an adult.

The Tea Party has been talking about closing government since 2010.

The last time Obama capitulated? We got the Sequester.

And if he capitulates now? The next thing they might ask for is the Presidency.

There would be nothing stopping that.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Obama acting like a grown up might prevent a default too

He is acting like an adult.

The Tea Party has been talking about closing government since 2010.

The last time Obama capitulated? We got the Sequester.

And if he capitulates now? The next thing they might ask for is the Presidency.

There would be nothing stopping that.

Sequester hit areas that weren't causing our debt like infrastructure, tech and science. It weaken America and didn't do a damn thing to lower the debt.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Paragraph 2 section 8 article one states that Congress is the authority to borrow. The 14th does not trump that. Further the debt limit has nothing to do with payments made monthly to treasury.

There is more then enough income to pay the debt payments and pay all the debt payments required.

 

[ScienceRocks]

I just heard on msnbc that if we passed the debt ceiling the tsunami will be 23 times bigger then 2008.

Jesus...Please don't do it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I just heard on msnbc that if we passed the debt ceiling the tsunami will be 23 times bigger then 2008.

Jesus...Please don't do it.

You watch MSNBC? That explains a lot.

 

[politicalnot]

Paragraph 2 section 8 article one states that Congress is the authority to borrow. The 14th does not trump that. Further the debt limit has nothing to do with payments made monthly to treasury.

There is more then enough income to pay the debt payments and pay all the debt payments required.

With what interest rates?

I could see interest rates spiraling out of control. That would put a serious burden on paying the debt.

 

[OKTexas]

Congress spent the money and now the Rs don't want to make good on their promise to pay.

Republicans do not work for the United States. They are traitors and will do anything to bring our country down.

How stupid are you, money that has already been spent doesn't need to be borrowed. Think about ignorat your statement really is, of course I doubt you'll see it.

 

[OKTexas]

You know, after some careful thinking and reading, I think the debt ceiling may in fact be unConstitutional.

Any law that compromises our ability to pay back any of our debts, is illegal...as per the 14th Amendment.

If Treasury says that the only we can finance our obligations is by incurring more debt, then we muct incur more debt. Congress approved the spending and only Congress can unapprove it.

So, until Congress unapproves the spending, we muct borrow money to finance it if revenue won't cut it.

if the debt ceiling gets in the way, its unConstitutional.

On October 18th, the debt ceiling may prevent us from financing the spending Congress has approved. That would make it unConstitutional.

The debt ceiling only prohibits additional borrowing, our debt service is about 8% of revenue, there is plenty of money to pay our debts, they will just have to reduce spending on other appropriations. Simple concept.

 

[S.J.]

This isn't a dictatorship. The President doesn't get to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling.

 

[The Rabbi]

This isn't a dictatorship. The President doesn't get to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling.

I wouldnt be too sure on the first point. And we'll see on the second.
I honestly believe that Obama will issue an EO to the Treasury to borrow the money based on his alleged 14thA authority. At that point we have a dictatorship because Congress will not impeach and remove him.

 

[nicolondon]

I think theres a lot of misinformation here regarding the debt ceiling and what happens with a default. The issue here is the impact on the credibility of the USA, even if for arguments sake Obama could raise the ceiling this wouldn't help longterm for the USA because this would likely end up in the SCOTUS, no other country will buy treasury bonds because basically they don't know if they're legal under that cloud of uncertainty. I think part of the problem here is that its called the debt ceiling which isn't really what it is.

Of course Obama didn't want to clarify things as to who gets paid because politically its a hot potato, you would have no choice but to pay bond holders first as a way of trying to save what little credibility was left in the financial markets. Then the government would have to prioritize who gets paid in terms of welfare etc. Its not like juggling a household budget because here just the complexity would be mind boggling, it would turn into an administrative nightmare because as taxes etc come into the government you'd need people working round the clock to decide where that money goes.

The dollar would crash causing a big leap in inflation, the reserve currency status of the dollar would be put into question. Even lets say some sanity returned and a quick debt ceiling was authorized the cost of borrowing for Americans would go up, those now brave enough to buy bonds would ask for more interest.

For those debt hawks what you'd end up with is an increasing national debt and deficit because of the increasing costs to service your debt, its a totally self-defeating strategy.

The only way the USA could recover some credibility at that stage is to do away with the debt ceiling to give the markets confidence that this wouldn't happen again.

I know some of the GOP seem to living in some fantasy world regarding a possible default, alot of Americans have these 401's they would crash and this is probably why come the end of the day some last minute deal will be done, politicians love power but they also love money and once their backers start putting pressure on we'll find some compromise done.

If not you're economy goes down the toilet and you take the rest of the world with you!

 

[nicolondon]

This isn't a dictatorship. The President doesn't get to unilaterally raise the debt ceiling.

I wouldnt be too sure on the first point. And we'll see on the second.
I honestly believe that Obama will issue an EO to the Treasury to borrow the money based on his alleged 14thA authority. At that point we have a dictatorship because Congress will not impeach and remove him.

Personally I think theres more chance of ET landing on your lawn than Obama using that 14th Amendment. Its Congresses role to raise the ceiling and if they don't then the buck stops with them, I'm surprised that Obama hasn't mentioned it would be those members in the House that would be acting against the constitution.

Think of it politically, there would definitely be enough votes to pass a clean debt ceiling, you'd get enough moderate Republicans to cross over. At that point if Boehner refused to allow a clean vote then the default would lie with the GOP.

Those moderates are more worried about the fall out from a default than the TP, for the timebeing we've not seen any big rifts opening up in the GOP but as October 17 gets closer that's likely to change. At this point the best thing all round is for people to take a step back and calm down, Congress should vote to open the government and raise the debt ceiling for a few months and everyone needs to get round the table and find some way of cutting a deal that gives a little to both sides.