Obama Gives Wind Farms A Pass On Eagle Deaths

[HUGGY]

Ask anybody that studies raptors. My previous post is 100% dead on. Hawks and Eagles are the dumbest predators in existance when locked on to a rodent or another injured bird. OK I screwed up. The best bait to catch a hawk or an eagle is a pigeon in a wire enclosure. Even if there are no rabbits around what the raptors are killing themselves over are the injured birds near the windmills. OK..OK..I have it. Coyotes ! Make sure the areas under the windmills have a healthy population of coyotes ..they will clean up the injured small birds.. Whew! I almost had myself there!

Once again.... Problemo el solvo !

 

[mamooth]

6.8 million birds die each year from hitting communication towers.

PLOS ONE: An Estimate of Avian Mortality at Communication Towers in the United States and Canada

Thus, by the kook logic, the Obama administration is subsidizing the communication industry by not demanding all radio/TV/cellphone towers be removed.

Now, rational people understand how to approach an issue rationally.

Towers, by their nature, can't help killing some birds. It's unavoidable. The options are to remove all communication towers or allow some bird kills. Being rational, we accept the bird kills, while looking for ways to design and site towers to minimize bird kills.

Wind turbines, by their nature, can't help killing some birds. It's unavoidable. The options are to remove all wind turbines or allow some bird kills. Being rational, we accept the bird kills, while looking for ways to design and site wind turbines to minimize bird kills.

On the other hand, poisoning an eagle with oil or fracking fluid is 100% avoidable. A properly run operation should never do such things. There's no excuse for it. Hence, a rational society punishes it, being it's purely due to negligence.

Alas, the kooks are not rational people. And they're not even attempting to justify their wild double standard here. Why aren't those hypocrites demanding that communication towers be fined? Oh, that's right, their cult doesn't hold a sputtering hatred for communication towers. Their bizarre irrational politically-based hatred only applies to wind turbines, leading to the raging double standard they display here.

 

[Mr. H.]

We don't need an excuse to hate on that little bitch Obama.

 

[westwall]

Statistics in fatalities don't really explain why raptors would fly into the path of these blades. I believe I can explain the phenomonem having had some experience in trapping Eagles and Hawks out in the wild. These birds are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree to start with. They become insanely focused on the bait/food/prey item upon seeing one. Normally they fly above several hundred feet when searching for some unlucky rabbit or prarie dog. THEN they get stuck on stupid and fly down and attempt to snatch thier dinner.

Here is the solution. TRAP all the food items in the vicinity of these windmills and relocate them somewhere else. SIMPLE..EFFECTIVE.. These birds will not go into harms way if there are no fuzzy little rodents to catch.

Problem solved.

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

 

[HUGGY]

Statistics in fatalities don't really explain why raptors would fly into the path of these blades. I believe I can explain the phenomonem having had some experience in trapping Eagles and Hawks out in the wild. These birds are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree to start with. They become insanely focused on the bait/food/prey item upon seeing one. Normally they fly above several hundred feet when searching for some unlucky rabbit or prarie dog. THEN they get stuck on stupid and fly down and attempt to snatch thier dinner.

Here is the solution. TRAP all the food items in the vicinity of these windmills and relocate them somewhere else. SIMPLE..EFFECTIVE.. These birds will not go into harms way if there are no fuzzy little rodents to catch.

Problem solved.

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

 

[westwall]

Statistics in fatalities don't really explain why raptors would fly into the path of these blades. I believe I can explain the phenomonem having had some experience in trapping Eagles and Hawks out in the wild. These birds are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree to start with. They become insanely focused on the bait/food/prey item upon seeing one. Normally they fly above several hundred feet when searching for some unlucky rabbit or prarie dog. THEN they get stuck on stupid and fly down and attempt to snatch thier dinner.

Here is the solution. TRAP all the food items in the vicinity of these windmills and relocate them somewhere else. SIMPLE..EFFECTIVE.. These birds will not go into harms way if there are no fuzzy little rodents to catch.

Problem solved.

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU]Bird killed by green energy - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HUGGY]

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU]Bird killed by green energy - YouTube[/ame]

I see your point. The only reasonable thing to do is reduce the population of "critters" that get the attention of the raptors so fewer of them fall victim to our need for electricity. I'm thinking ferral cats and/or coyotes. We could make shelters for the cats and make concrete breeding burroughs for the canines. A source of water might be advantageous keeping the populations in the area. They would be at ground level so the mowing that is neccesary would not be inhibited. The small birds..not much can be done. The seeds and insects they feed on are more exposed in short cut grass. I know this having lived on farm land much of my life..around 10 years. The birds roost in surounding bushes and trees but spend the majority of the day forraging in places that expose thier favorite food supplies.

 

[westwall]

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU]Bird killed by green energy - YouTube[/ame]

I see your point. The only reasonable thing to do is reduce the population of "critters" that get the attention of the raptors so fewer of them fall victim to our need for electricity. I'm thinking ferral cats and/or coyotes. We could make shelters for the cats and make concrete breeding burroughs for the canines. A source of water might be advantageous keeping the populations in the area. They would be at ground level so the mowing that is neccesary would not be inhibited. The small birds..not much can be done. The seeds and insects they feed on are more exposed in short cut grass. I know this having lived on farm land much of my life..around 10 years. The birds roost in surounding bushes and trees but spend the majority of the day forraging in places that expose thier favorite food supplies.

Also wind farms must not be sited along migration routes. those are frequented by raptors as well.

 

[HUGGY]

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

Bird killed by green energy - YouTube

I see your point. The only reasonable thing to do is reduce the population of "critters" that get the attention of the raptors so fewer of them fall victim to our need for electricity. I'm thinking ferral cats and/or coyotes. We could make shelters for the cats and make concrete breeding burroughs for the canines. A source of water might be advantageous keeping the populations in the area. They would be at ground level so the mowing that is neccesary would not be inhibited. The small birds..not much can be done. The seeds and insects they feed on are more exposed in short cut grass. I know this having lived on farm land much of my life..around 10 years. The birds roost in surounding bushes and trees but spend the majority of the day forraging in places that expose thier favorite food supplies.

Also wind farms must not be sited along migration routes. those are frequented by raptors as well.

That's not really possible. The birds use the same regions of high wind to aid in thier migration as is desirable for wind farms.

We can mitigate the conditions that draw the raptors to a lower elevation to search for prey. That would help. Other than that the birds will have to learn how to avoid the danger themselves as they have done with new dangers over the miliniums.

 

[S.J.]

Wind farms are a joke. The electricity generated by them doesn't even come close to covering the cost to build and maintain the damn menacing things. It's one big liberal failure.

 

[jon_berzerk]

But he prosecutes everyone else, like the oil companies and power companies. Could this possibly have anything to do with campaign contributions?

Obama administration gives wind farms a pass on eagle deaths, prosecutes oil companies | Fox News

yeah

the obama epa was all over an outfit up in the oil patch

over a 1/2 ducks that got into a run off holding pond

wanted to shut em down over it

 

[jon_berzerk]

Ask anybody that studies raptors. My previous post is 100% dead on. Hawks and Eagles are the dumbest predators in existance when locked on to a rodent or another injured bird. OK I screwed up. The best bait to catch a hawk or an eagle is a pigeon in a wire enclosure. Even if there are no rabbits around what the raptors are killing themselves over are the injured birds near the windmills. OK..OK..I have it. Coyotes ! Make sure the areas under the windmills have a healthy population of coyotes ..they will clean up the injured small birds.. Whew! I almost had myself there!

Once again.... Problemo el solvo !

yeah they are pretty fun to watch

 

[jon_berzerk]

Statistics in fatalities don't really explain why raptors would fly into the path of these blades. I believe I can explain the phenomonem having had some experience in trapping Eagles and Hawks out in the wild. These birds are not the brightest bulbs on the Christmas tree to start with. They become insanely focused on the bait/food/prey item upon seeing one. Normally they fly above several hundred feet when searching for some unlucky rabbit or prarie dog. THEN they get stuck on stupid and fly down and attempt to snatch thier dinner.

Here is the solution. TRAP all the food items in the vicinity of these windmills and relocate them somewhere else. SIMPLE..EFFECTIVE.. These birds will not go into harms way if there are no fuzzy little rodents to catch.

Problem solved.

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

they may be trying to use the windmill as a perch

since (at least out here) there is not a lot of other places

to perch upon around the windmill areas

 

[jon_berzerk]

Look up Flicker Vertigo Huggy. That is the main reason for these birds being drawn into the blades. It's just like a moth to the flame. The other problem with wind farms is they are sited along raptor hunting grounds. Wind farms are a blight for more than one reason...

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU]Bird killed by green energy - YouTube[/ame]

it actually looks like that buzzard is using

the wind drafts to stay air born

which would make the windmill a attractive nuisance for the bird

 

[jon_berzerk]

I dissagree..I think. I know nothing of flicker vertigo. I do know a lot about raptors. I had a red tailed hawk as a kid up on Orcas Island. I have spent thousands of hours watching raptor behavior. Like I said earlier I have actually set out caged pigeons with little nylon(fishing line) loops "snares" attached to the top and sides of the cages and trapped hawks and eagles up in the Skagit flats. What I said about raptors acting stupid in the presense of a prey item is absolutely true taken from my own personal experience. These birds have no trouble recognising humans as a threat yet I have sat still with a trip line within a hundred feet of the net trap and the birds lose all sense of personal security when investigating an easy meal.

Hawks and eagles do not fly at the level of the windmills unless they are investigating a prey item or they are landing on a nearby perch so they can investigate a prey item more closely. They also take refuge in tall trees if they are being harrassed by crows or seagulls.

Hawks and eagles MAY be suceptible to the flicker vertigo ..I doubt it. They have been acting stupid when focused on a wounded bird or rodent for millions of years. Most fatalities occur on highways when raptors attempt to snatch a wounded animal/bird in traffic. THAT is stupid. It happens much more frequently than colliding with a windmill blade. Why do you suppose that is? Automobile "flicker frequency"?

I fully agree with what you say. However the raptors know that little critters inhabit the areas involved so fly there, then get caught by the flicker vertigo and get drawn into the blades.

Just like this...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwVz5hdAMGU]Bird killed by green energy - YouTube[/ame]

I see your point. The only reasonable thing to do is reduce the population of "critters" that get the attention of the raptors so fewer of them fall victim to our need for electricity. I'm thinking ferral cats and/or coyotes. We could make shelters for the cats and make concrete breeding burroughs for the canines. A source of water might be advantageous keeping the populations in the area. They would be at ground level so the mowing that is neccesary would not be inhibited. The small birds..not much can be done. The seeds and insects they feed on are more exposed in short cut grass. I know this having lived on farm land much of my life..around 10 years. The birds roost in surounding bushes and trees but spend the majority of the day forraging in places that expose thier favorite food supplies.

cats often become lunch for prey birds out here

coyotes run a muck out here

would be a hard sell

 

[Old Rocks]

While they must continue to do all that is possible to reduce the mortality rate from windtowers to birds and bats, the number killed by the towers pales in comparison to the other manmade objects that kill the birds.

Causes of Bird Mortality « Sibley Guides

Window strikes – estimated to kill 97 to 976 million birds/year – Millions of houses and buildings, with their billions of windows, pose a significant threat to birds. Birds see the natural habitat mirrored in the glass and fly directly into the window, causing injury and, in 50% or more of the cases, death. Simple steps can be taken to reduce the number of birds striking windows. Decals that stick to the glass are not very effective, but strips of tape on the outside of the glass, or strings or feathers hanging outside the window, each no more than 10 inches apart, are fairly effective. Decorative features like stained glass designs or window dividers can achieve the same result. Outside screens are very effective both to reduce the reflection and to cushion the impact. In short, anything that reduces or breaks up the window’s reflection will reduce bird strikes. Lots of excellent info at FLAP (Fatal Light Awareness Program) ; follow the link to collision prevention and be sure to check out the “CollidEscape” film.

Communication towers – estimates of bird kills are impossible to make because of the lack of data, but totals could easily be over 5 million birds/year, and possibly as many as 50 million. Towers have proliferated in recent years, with an estimated 5000 new towers erected per year during the 1990s, mainly for the cell phone and digital TV industries. Any tall structure will kill birds by collision, and lighted towers attract birds at night. Theoretically cellphone towers are less dangerous than the taller structures, but there is no data either way, and the sheer number of cell phone towers may outweigh any other advantage. More info at FLAP (Fatal Light Awareness Program) and TOWERKILL .

High tension line collisions – may kill up to 174 million birds per year. This figure extrapolates from European studies to the millions of miles of aerial wires in North America. There are very few data in North America.

Electrocutions kill tens of thousands of birds per year. This occurs mainly when large birds such as raptors make contact between a live electrical wire and a ground such as a pole. The relatively small number of birds affected belies the significance of this threat, since species such as Golden Eagle are more susceptible. Large predators like eagles have smaller population sizes and lower reproduction rates than songbirds, so removing a few thousand birds from the population will have a much larger impact than removing the same number of, say, Savannah Sparrows. Studies byHawkWatch International revealed an electrocution rate of just under 1 bird per 100 poles per year, or 547 birds at 74,000 poles in Utah in 2001-2002. About 10% of the birds killed were Golden Eagles, 34% Ravens, and another 25%Buteos (Red-tailed, Swainson’s and Ferruginous Hawks). Fortunately PacifiCorp, the owner of the poles, is committed to making changes to reduce electrocutions, and hopefully other regions will follow.

Cars may kill 60 million birds per year. Of over 8 million lane miles of roads in the US, 6.3 million, or over ¾, are in rural areas where most birds are presumably killed. There’s not much we can do about this source of bird mortality short of changing our driving habits, but landscaping the roadside to discourage birds from congregating there is helpful. My own sense is that small cars with more aerodynamic designs hit fewer birds, while large boxy vans and trucks hit more birds, but I don’t think this has been studied. By the way, 100 years ago there were fewer than 250 miles of paved roads in North America, all in urban centers.

Wind turbines may kill 33,000 birds per year, and, as in the case of electrocutions, these birds tend to be large and scarce (e.g. raptors). The recent surge of interest in wind power has heightened concerns about their effect on birds, and has led to at least the discussion of efforts by the wind power industry to design more benign windmills and to choose locations that are less “birdy”. It’s difficult for an environmentalist to come out against renewable energy like wind turbines, but as long as the electricity generated is considered a “supplement” to satisfy increasing demand, wind power will not really help the fight against global warming. Establishment of wind farms should go hand-in-hand with drastic cuts in electricity use, and there is a real need for more study of the relationship between birds and wind farms.

It's curious the lengths you go to in order to put such an issue in some sort of "context", yet fail to acknowledge such an exercise in context when it comes to hydrocarbons and hydrocarbon exploration/production.

OK, hydrocarbons and fossil fuels in context.

Carbon Dioxide Emissions | Climate Change | US EPA

•Electricity. Electricity is a significant source of energy in the United States and is used to power homes, business, and industry. The combustion of fossil fuels to generate electricity is the largest single source of CO2 emissions in the nation, accounting for about 38% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 32% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011. The type of fossil fuel used to generate electricity will emit different amounts of CO2. To produce a given amount of electricity, burning coal will produce more CO2 than oil or natural gas.
•Transportation. The combustion of fossil fuels such as gasoline and diesel to transport people and goods is the second largest source of CO2 emissions, accounting for about 31% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 26% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011. This category includes transportation sources such as highway vehicles, air travel, marine transportation, and rail

The fossil fuels, as cheap and available sources of energy, gave us the civilization which we presently enjoy. However, it was not done without a cost. Until 30 years ago, most were not aware of the cost, and even now, all too many wish to deny that cost. Even as we are starting to pay it. Continued use at present or greater levels is going to increase the cost, and bring those costs to us in a much shorter time.

We have passed the 400 ppm level for CO2, and with the increases atmospheric CH4, and industrial GHGs, are really closer to an effective level of 500 ppm.

There you have it, Mr. H. Coal and oil are responsible for more that 50% of the US CO2 emissions. Worldwide, coal probably is a larger percentage, and oil a lesser one, but the combination is probably about the same percentage. There you have it in context. Fossil fuels, both a blessing and a curse.

 

[tjvh]

Liberals don't care about the mass slaughter of animals as long as it furthers their anti-energy agenda. If the technology can be called green, it's OK if it minces up endangered birds... The utopian dream trumps minor speed bumps like dead Bald Eagles.

 

[Old Rocks]

Liberals don't care about the mass slaughter of animals as long as it furthers their anti-energy agenda. If the technology can be called green, it's OK if it minces up endangered birds... The utopian dream trumps minor speed bumps like dead Bald Eagles.

Oh get off it. What are you planning to do? Ban automobiles? They kill far more raptors than windmills. High voltage transmission lines? Likewise.

As stated before, creating something that will make the raptors avoid the blades of the mills is an engineering problem, and needs to be done. But the mills are a minor source of danger for the raptors compared to other things we put in their environment.

 

[Mr. H.]

Liberals don't care about the mass slaughter of animals as long as it furthers their anti-energy agenda. If the technology can be called green, it's OK if it minces up endangered birds... The utopian dream trumps minor speed bumps like dead Bald Eagles.

Oh get off it. What are you planning to do? Ban automobiles? They kill far more raptors than windmills. High voltage transmission lines? Likewise.

As stated before, creating something that will make the raptors avoid the blades of the mills is an engineering problem, and needs to be done. But the mills are a minor source of danger for the raptors compared to other things we put in their environment.

Clean coal technology is also an engineering problem that "needs to be done".

Hydraulic fracturing presents NO engineering problems, yet the EPA and general public thinks it should be "undone".

CNG exports/Keystone XL/ etc. etc. being constantly roadblocked by the Left and the Greens.

Green projects get passes, excuses, guaranteed loans, grants, subsidies...
hydrocarbons get the Red light.

We get the picture.

 

[westwall]

While they must continue to do all that is possible to reduce the mortality rate from windtowers to birds and bats, the number killed by the towers pales in comparison to the other manmade objects that kill the birds.

Causes of Bird Mortality « Sibley Guides

Window strikes – estimated to kill 97 to 976 million birds/year – Millions of houses and buildings, with their billions of windows, pose a significant threat to birds. Birds see the natural habitat mirrored in the glass and fly directly into the window, causing injury and, in 50% or more of the cases, death. Simple steps can be taken to reduce the number of birds striking windows. Decals that stick to the glass are not very effective, but strips of tape on the outside of the glass, or strings or feathers hanging outside the window, each no more than 10 inches apart, are fairly effective. Decorative features like stained glass designs or window dividers can achieve the same result. Outside screens are very effective both to reduce the reflection and to cushion the impact. In short, anything that reduces or breaks up the window’s reflection will reduce bird strikes. Lots of excellent info at FLAP (Fatal Light Awareness Program) ; follow the link to collision prevention and be sure to check out the “CollidEscape” film.

Communication towers – estimates of bird kills are impossible to make because of the lack of data, but totals could easily be over 5 million birds/year, and possibly as many as 50 million. Towers have proliferated in recent years, with an estimated 5000 new towers erected per year during the 1990s, mainly for the cell phone and digital TV industries. Any tall structure will kill birds by collision, and lighted towers attract birds at night. Theoretically cellphone towers are less dangerous than the taller structures, but there is no data either way, and the sheer number of cell phone towers may outweigh any other advantage. More info at FLAP (Fatal Light Awareness Program) and TOWERKILL .

High tension line collisions – may kill up to 174 million birds per year. This figure extrapolates from European studies to the millions of miles of aerial wires in North America. There are very few data in North America.

Electrocutions kill tens of thousands of birds per year. This occurs mainly when large birds such as raptors make contact between a live electrical wire and a ground such as a pole. The relatively small number of birds affected belies the significance of this threat, since species such as Golden Eagle are more susceptible. Large predators like eagles have smaller population sizes and lower reproduction rates than songbirds, so removing a few thousand birds from the population will have a much larger impact than removing the same number of, say, Savannah Sparrows. Studies byHawkWatch International revealed an electrocution rate of just under 1 bird per 100 poles per year, or 547 birds at 74,000 poles in Utah in 2001-2002. About 10% of the birds killed were Golden Eagles, 34% Ravens, and another 25%Buteos (Red-tailed, Swainson’s and Ferruginous Hawks). Fortunately PacifiCorp, the owner of the poles, is committed to making changes to reduce electrocutions, and hopefully other regions will follow.

Cars may kill 60 million birds per year. Of over 8 million lane miles of roads in the US, 6.3 million, or over ¾, are in rural areas where most birds are presumably killed. There’s not much we can do about this source of bird mortality short of changing our driving habits, but landscaping the roadside to discourage birds from congregating there is helpful. My own sense is that small cars with more aerodynamic designs hit fewer birds, while large boxy vans and trucks hit more birds, but I don’t think this has been studied. By the way, 100 years ago there were fewer than 250 miles of paved roads in North America, all in urban centers.

Wind turbines may kill 33,000 birds per year, and, as in the case of electrocutions, these birds tend to be large and scarce (e.g. raptors). The recent surge of interest in wind power has heightened concerns about their effect on birds, and has led to at least the discussion of efforts by the wind power industry to design more benign windmills and to choose locations that are less “birdy”. It’s difficult for an environmentalist to come out against renewable energy like wind turbines, but as long as the electricity generated is considered a “supplement” to satisfy increasing demand, wind power will not really help the fight against global warming. Establishment of wind farms should go hand-in-hand with drastic cuts in electricity use, and there is a real need for more study of the relationship between birds and wind farms.

It's curious the lengths you go to in order to put such an issue in some sort of "context", yet fail to acknowledge such an exercise in context when it comes to hydrocarbons and hydrocarbon exploration/production.

OK, hydrocarbons and fossil fuels in context.

Carbon Dioxide Emissions | Climate Change | US EPA

•Electricity. Electricity is a significant source of energy in the United States and is used to power homes, business, and industry. The combustion of fossil fuels to generate electricity is the largest single source of CO2 emissions in the nation, accounting for about 38% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 32% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011. The type of fossil fuel used to generate electricity will emit different amounts of CO2. To produce a given amount of electricity, burning coal will produce more CO2 than oil or natural gas.
•Transportation. The combustion of fossil fuels such as gasoline and diesel to transport people and goods is the second largest source of CO2 emissions, accounting for about 31% of total U.S. CO2 emissions and 26% of total U.S. greenhouse gas emissions in 2011. This category includes transportation sources such as highway vehicles, air travel, marine transportation, and rail

The fossil fuels, as cheap and available sources of energy, gave us the civilization which we presently enjoy. However, it was not done without a cost. Until 30 years ago, most were not aware of the cost, and even now, all too many wish to deny that cost. Even as we are starting to pay it. Continued use at present or greater levels is going to increase the cost, and bring those costs to us in a much shorter time.

We have passed the 400 ppm level for CO2, and with the increases atmospheric CH4, and industrial GHGs, are really closer to an effective level of 500 ppm.

There you have it, Mr. H. Coal and oil are responsible for more that 50% of the US CO2 emissions. Worldwide, coal probably is a larger percentage, and oil a lesser one, but the combination is probably about the same percentage. There you have it in context. Fossil fuels, both a blessing and a curse.

CO2 Schmee oh two. CO2 is not a problem. The theory that CO2 is a pollutant is a construct of a collectivist mind who wishes to rob the public of what little wealth they have left and give to people who are already rich. It is a scam, pure and simple.