Obama officially turns back on Isreal.

[daveman]

I'll let one of your fellow travelers put you in your place.

That comment was for you useful idiot.

See the first quote in my sig!

Your map had nothing to do with the CON$ervative lie that there was nothing to swap post 1967, which they used as a rationalization to change Obama's words, therefore it is a distraction intended to confuse and obfuscate that fact.

You refuse to accept it because it shows Israel positively.

You hate that. You fear that. You wish the map was illegal.

 

[MikeK]

Israel doesn't want war. They want to survive.top being stupid this isn't a political game were playing, it's called survival of the Israelie people, against another group of people that are hell bound and determined to destroy them.

That brings to mind the question of why the founders of the state of Israel wanted to put themselves in such a position? There were options for the establishment of a Jewish homeland:

(Excerpt)


Over the past one hundred fifty years there have been many plans advanced as to the establishment of a Jewish national state. The one that was realized was the one advanced by the Zionist movement of building a Jewish state in the Land of Israel, our historic and biblical homeland. This triumph of Zionism in establishing a Jewish national home in the Land of Israel was naturally based on the centrality of the Land of Israel in Jewish religious life. The prayer texts, the grace after meals, "Next year in Jerusalem," the remembrances of the Temple and its destruction, all combined to implant within the Jewish national soul the idea that the Jewish national entity, when it would come into being, would be in the Land of Israel. However, there were other plans advanced as well, many times backed by powerful patrons. The most famous alternative site for the Jewish state was advanced by no less than Theodore Herzl himself. Herzl, in conversations and negotiations with the British Foreign Office in the first years of the twentieth century, heard of a proposition to establish a Jewish state in Uganda in central Africa.

Great Britain, then in competition with the Kaiser's Germany for influence and control of central Africa, proposed the possibility of the creation of a Jewish state under British auspices and as part of the British Empire in Uganda. Herzl, enamored of the idea, stated that this Ugandan state could be a laboratory for Jewish nationhood, a training ground for learning how to be self-governing after millennia of exile. He thereupon proposed the plan to the Zionist Congress and staked his own personal prestige and position on its adoption. The plan was opposed bitterly by the Eastern European faction of the Zionist Congress, then led by the young Chaim Weizman. Because of Herzl's personal prestige the plan was able to receive a bare majority at the Zionist Congress. But Herzl himself soon realized the impracticality of implementing a plan that was opposed by half of the Zionist movement. Great Britain also had second thoughts about the matter and with Herzl's unexpected death a few months after that Zionist Congress, the Uganda plan went to the grave with him.

THE JEWISH HOMELAND : Friday, February 11, 2005 : Jerusalem Post : Rabbi Wein : Jewish Destiny


I understand that the region designated by the British consisted of extremely fertile land with a temperate climate and plenty of water. With the initial aid the British offered to them the Jews could have quickly transformed that place into a peaceful modern paradise.

Theodor Herzl was enthusiastically in favor of it but other Zionist factions turned their noses up at the idea. They wanted Israel.

Well, they got it. And it's not America's problem.

 

[MikeK]

I think Israel should return to its 120 BCE borders.

If the Israelis did to you and your family what they do to the Palestinian people (namely, seize their land, homes etc), you might actually consider terrorism as your only recourse.

There's nothing anybody could do to me that would make me want to strap on a bomb and blow up a school or hospital. That is pure cowardice, regardless of motive.

How do you feel about launching missiles and artillery rounds and dropping bombs, some of which land on hospitals and schools and houses and apartment buildings where babies are sleeping in their cribs?

Here are some images of just a few things your tax dollars paid for in recent decades.

The effects of war are hellish -- regardless of how they are delivered.

 

[KissMy]

The Middle East Mindset – Whats It All About
Forgotten are UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, both passed in the wake of the Six-Day War (1967) and the Yom Kippur War (1973). These Resolutions acknowledged Israel’s need for secure and recognized boundaries prior to any Israeli withdrawals. They now appear, however, to be irrelevant, raising the question: Why should Israel honor its international commitments with the Palestinians (such as those enshrined in the Oslo Accords) if international commitments made with Israel by the Palestinians are not honored as well?

The Middle East Mindset – Whats It All About | IsraelSeen.com

Except, as I have already posted the videos in this thread, NaziYahoo brags that it was HE who broke the Oslo accords!!!!!!!!!

The USA, Benjamin Netanyahu, Chairman Arafat & the Palestinian Authority all agreed to the terms in the letter at the time of the signing. Benjamin Netanyahu did not break the Oslo Accords. Below is the letter Netanyahu is referring to:

This letter was provided by U.S. Secretary of State Christopher to Benjamin Netanyahu at the time of signing of the Hebron Protocol

Dear Mr. Prime Minister,

I wanted personally to congratulate you on the successful conclusion of the "Protocol Concerning the Redeployment in Hebron." It represents an important step forward in the Oslo peace process and reaffirms my conviction that a just and lasting peace will be established between Israelis and Palestinians in the very near future.

In this connection, I can assure you that it remains the policy of the United States to support and promote full implementation of the Interim Agreement in all of its parts. We intend to continue our efforts to help ensure that all outstanding commitments are carried out by both parties in a cooperative spirit and on the basis of reciprocity.

As part of this process, I have impressed upon Chairman Arafat the imperative need for the Palestinian Authority to make every effort to ensure public order and internal security within the West Bank and Gaza Strip. I have stressed to him that effectively carrying out this major responsibility will be a critical foundation for completing implementation of the Interim Agreement, as well as the peace process as a whole.

I wanted you to know that, in this context, I have advised Chairman Arafat of U.S. views on Israel's process of redeploying its forces, designating specified military locations and transferring additional powers and responsibilities to the Palestinian Authority. In this regard, I have conveyed our belief, that the first phase of further redeployments should take place as soon as possible, and that all three phases of the further redeployments should be completed within twelve months from the implementation of the first phase of the further redeployments but not later than mid-1998.

Mr. Prime Minister, you can be assured that the United States' commitment to Israel's security is ironclad and constitutes the fundamental cornerstone of our special relationship. The key element in our approach to peace, including the negotiation and implementation of agreements between Israel and its Arab partners, has always been a recognition of Israel's security requirements. Moreover, a hallmark of U.S. policy remains our commitment to work cooperatively to seek to meet the security needs that Israel identifies. Finally, I would like to reiterate our position that Israel is entitled to secure and defensible borders, which should be directly negotiated and agreed with its neighbors.

 

[MikeK]

Fuck Obama for throwing Israel under a bus. That man has no fucking loyalty.

"Loyalty?" To whom? And why?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why wasn't it implemented? What makes you think it wasn't implemented?

A transitional period under United Nations auspices was to begin with the adoption of the resolution, and lasting until the establishment of the two states. However, war broke out and the partition plan was never implemented by the Security Council. On March 5, 1948, the United Nations Security Council reached an impasse when it refused to pass a resolution which would have accepted the partition plan as a basis for Security Council action. The United States subsequently recommended a temporary UN trusteeship for Palestine "without prejudice to the character of the eventual political settlement", and the Security Council voted to send the matter back to the General Assembly for further deliberation. The General Assembly decided to appoint a Mediator, and relieved the Palestine Commission from any further exercise of responsibility under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the war prevented the implemention of the UN partition plan that isn't Israels fault they did not start the war. They won by default.

Where did you ever get the idea that the Palestinians started the war? Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

A transitional period under United Nations auspices was to begin with the adoption of the resolution, and lasting until the establishment of the two states. However, war broke out and the partition plan was never implemented by the Security Council. On March 5, 1948, the United Nations Security Council reached an impasse when it refused to pass a resolution which would have accepted the partition plan as a basis for Security Council action. The United States subsequently recommended a temporary UN trusteeship for Palestine "without prejudice to the character of the eventual political settlement", and the Security Council voted to send the matter back to the General Assembly for further deliberation. The General Assembly decided to appoint a Mediator, and relieved the Palestine Commission from any further exercise of responsibility under resolution 181 (II) of 29 November 1947.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the war prevented the implemention of the UN partition plan that isn't Israels fault they did not start the war. They won by default.

Where did you ever get the idea that the Palestinians started the war? Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

It wasn't Israel that started the war.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The Middle East Mindset – Whats It All About
Forgotten are UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, both passed in the wake of the Six-Day War (1967) and the Yom Kippur War (1973). These Resolutions acknowledged Israel’s need for secure and recognized boundaries prior to any Israeli withdrawals. They now appear, however, to be irrelevant, raising the question: Why should Israel honor its international commitments with the Palestinians (such as those enshrined in the Oslo Accords) if international commitments made with Israel by the Palestinians are not honored as well?

The Middle East Mindset – Whats It All About | IsraelSeen.com

Except, as I have already posted the videos in this thread, NaziYahoo brags that it was HE who broke the Oslo accords!!!!!!!!!

horseshit you fuckng liar if you posed a vieo it's probuly from some arab propaganda bullshit.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I think Israel should return to its 120 BCE borders.

If the Israelis did to you and your family what they do to the Palestinian people (namely, seize their land, homes etc), you might actually consider terrorism as your only recourse.

There's nothing anybody could do to me that would make me want to strap on a bomb and blow up a school or hospital. That is pure cowardice, regardless of motive.

How do you feel about launching missiles and artillery rounds and dropping bombs, some of which land on hospitals and schools and houses and apartment buildings where babies are sleeping in their cribs?

Here are some images of just a few things your tax dollars paid for in recent decades.

The effects of war are hellish -- regardless of how they are delivered.

If the war prevented the implemention of the UN partition plan that isn't Israels fault they did not start the war. They won by default.

Where did you ever get the idea that the Palestinians started the war? Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

It wasn't Israel that started the war.

Where did you get that? It is obviously false.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

 

[Annie]

Obama: Palestinian State Must Be Based on 1967 Borders - FoxNews.com

What a piece of work, if I where Isreal I would throw up the big F.U. sign and carry on with my business. We will make relations better with Isreal after 2012 is over with. This president is embarrassing.

when professing righteous indication on behalf of Israel, it's probably a good idea to know how to spell the country's name.

just sayin'

While not hard to spell, it's interesting that you have so little to add. Me? I find Obama's take appalling. I find it hard to believe your partisanship overcomes everything else. I'm disappointed in the fact that someone I really thought was principled for many years, has taken a different road.

I'd like to say, "As you wish," but I value my 1/2 Jewish children and their heritage more than that. It's a shame to say, the Christian right, which I certainly haven't ever felt a bit of kinship with, will stand for Israel more than you and exert far more political pressure than you and your ilk.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Israel has no land and has no borders. It is not an opinion.

You're right. It's a delusion fueled by irrational hatred.

Seriously, it is true. If Israel had any land there would be a border to define where that land is. When the foreigners declared themselves to be the state of Israel

Nationhood and Jerusalem Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two thousand years before the rise of Islam. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years

 

[P F Tinmore]

You're right. It's a delusion fueled by irrational hatred.

Seriously, it is true. If Israel had any land there would be a border to define where that land is. When the foreigners declared themselves to be the state of Israel

Nationhood and Jerusalem Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, two thousand years before the rise of Islam. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BCE the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years

Standard Israeli pantload.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Historically and scientifically provable.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Historically and scientifically provable.

The Jews were not the first people in Palestine nor were they ever the only people in Palestine.

There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

 

[daveman]

Historically and scientifically provable.

The Jews were not the first people in Palestine nor were they ever the only people in Palestine.

There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

Well, too damn bad for you, huh?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Historically and scientifically provable.

The Jews were not the first people in Palestine nor were they ever the only people in Palestine.

There is no historic precedence for an exclusive Jewish state.

You refer to them as "foreigners" they have been there since virtually the dawn of western history recorded history .

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I think Israel should return to its 120 BCE borders.


There's nothing anybody could do to me that would make me want to strap on a bomb and blow up a school or hospital. That is pure cowardice, regardless of motive.

How do you feel about launching missiles and artillery rounds and dropping bombs, some of which land on hospitals and schools and houses and apartment buildings where babies are sleeping in their cribs?

Here are some images of just a few things your tax dollars paid for in recent decades.

The effects of war are hellish -- regardless of how they are delivered.

Where did you ever get the idea that the Palestinians started the war? Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

It wasn't Israel that started the war.

Where did you get that? It is obviously false.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

Where did you get that? It is obviously false.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zion

Like I said it was not Israel that started the war.

On Nov. 29, 1947, the United Nations decides to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state. Mounting violence leads to the first Arab-Israeli war in early 1948, when the British withdraw from the region. Jewish forces hold their ground and declare Israeli statehood on May 14, 1948. Neighboring Arab nations, including Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and then-Transjordan, lend support to the Palestinians. The Egyptians are the last to seek an end to hostilities; an armistice is reached in January 1949.

USATODAY.com - The Arab-Israeli conflict, 1947-present

 

[bigrebnc1775]

edthecynic about that map you have been posting

The map that lies - and one that doesn't
While I presume that the white sections are indeed the land that was privately owned by Jews, the land in green was not privately owned by Arabs.

Only a tiny percentage of land in Palestine was privately owned. The various categories of land ownership included:


Mulk: privately owned in the Western sense.
Miri: Land owned by the government (originally the Ottoman crown) and suitable for agricultural use. Individuals could purchase a deed to cultivate this land and pay a tithe to the government. Ownership could be transferred only with the approval of the state. Miri rights could be transferred to heirs, and the land could be sub-let to tenants. If the owner died without an heir or the land was not cultivated for three years, the land would revert to the state.
Mahlul: Uncultivated Miri lands that would revert to the state, in theory after three years.
Mawat (or Mewat): So-called “dead”, unreclaimed land. It constituted about 50 to 60% of the land in Palestine. It belonged to the government. ...If the land had been cultivated with permission, it would be registered, at least under the Mandate, free of charge.

Elder of Ziyon: The map that lies - and one that doesn't

 

[P F Tinmore]

How do you feel about launching missiles and artillery rounds and dropping bombs, some of which land on hospitals and schools and houses and apartment buildings where babies are sleeping in their cribs?

Here are some images of just a few things your tax dollars paid for in recent decades.

The effects of war are hellish -- regardless of how they are delivered.

Where did you get that? It is obviously false.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zionists?

Where did you get that? It is obviously false.

Did the Palestinians go to Europe to attack the Zion

Like I said it was not Israel that started the war.

On Nov. 29, 1947, the United Nations decides to partition Palestine into an Arab state and a Jewish state. Mounting violence leads to the first Arab-Israeli war in early 1948, when the British withdraw from the region. Jewish forces hold their ground and declare Israeli statehood on May 14, 1948. Neighboring Arab nations, including Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and then-Transjordan, lend support to the Palestinians. The Egyptians are the last to seek an end to hostilities; an armistice is reached in January 1949.

USATODAY.com - The Arab-Israeli conflict, 1947-present

Neighboring Arab nations, including Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt and then-Transjordan, lend support to the Palestinians.

Palestine was under attack from Israel and the other countries came to their defense.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Palestine was under attack from Israel and the other countries came to their defense.

Lincoln shot himself in self defense.