Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

[Pogo]

You're right, it does put the opposition between a rock and a hard place, but only because #1: The "opposition" (ie: Republican party) doesn't have anyone who can concisely and clearly explain their position, and #2: the media spins every message so far to the left.

Nobody is arguing "education is a bad thing." Just like nobody is arguing that food, housing, cell phones, transportation, etc (ad nauseum) are "bad things". However when some of us have to provide all of these things for other people, and those people get them for "free", it devalues those things.

Look at the areas that have "free housing". Do you want to live next door?

Once again....

Making food, housing, cellphones, transportation etc available to the masses doesn't directly benefit the community as a whole, i.e. they don't produce a more productive citizen. That's why this comparison is still apples and oranges.

Look at it this way: a society handing out free stuff that benefits nobody but the recipient is just handing out free stuff. A society investing in educating its own is investing in itself.

Food, housing, communications, and transportation certainly does benefit the community as a whole, and investment in these things is indeed a good thing, just like investing in education.

However "investing" in these things should NOT mean giving them to people for FREE. That isn't good investing, because (once again....) it devalues the very thing we are invest in.

I'll ask you again. Do you want to live next door to the "free housing" areas??

And I'll answer again -- it hasn't changed:

​

See post 85 -- you continue to try to equate the material with the conceptual. If somebody gives you a free car, free house, free food etc, it requires no work on your part. That's why they're not comparable. Education is participatory. Not to mention that unlike cars, houses and food, it doesn't wear out or burn up -- it's forever.

In one sense it's kind of absurd for a culture to require as much education as possible for its citizen to develop his or her potential, and then turn around and demand he/she pay for it. That wasn't the child's choice. If the culture demands some level of sophistication, then the onus is on that same culture to provide it. Also known as the concept of "level playing field".

If you don't provide it, then all you're doing is creating and perpetuating a striated social class system. And the more sophistication you require and make beyond the reach of the lower caste, the wider that gap grows.

You are making a critical mistake in your assumption.
You are assuming that high school graduates are leaving high school with the education base to be able to move on/up towards more challenging tasks successfully. The American education system is not providing this essential component. High school 'graduates' who are functionally illiterate are not going to succeed in any tangible way in a serious college environment.
Which high school 'graduates' with limited literacy skills are not going to want to spend a couple of years learning some more 'nothing' b/c they know there are no "good paying jobs" waiting for them after leaving high school?
In the college there are easy chairs and couches to relax on instead of that hard plastic desk after all.
Lot's of 'bonking' and drinking and getting shit faced.
About 80% of NY state high school graduates are functionally illiterate. And NY sstatespends more money in high schools than any state in the country.
80 of New York High School Grads Can 8217 t Read Despite Being No. 1 in School Spending FrontPage Magazine
BOBO needs to get his Socialist head out of his ass and spend the money starting in pre-schools hiring teachers who are actually educated.......not a bunch of union organized 'Affirmative Action' OJ jurors who don't know if a fucking duck is a fucking bird!

You're not making a case for why a concept doesn't work here. You're cherrypicking biased samples.

"I had a Volvo that continually broke down. Therefore all Volvos continually break down".

To follow your logic then we should just do away with education altogether because it "will never work". Let's go back to agrarianism and put those kids out into the fields as soon as they can walk.

 

[hortysir]

It is not free....we willl pay for this and then community colleges will suck as bad as public education at the grade school and high school level......and the cost of Community college will go up as well....since the government is paying for it........right?

This ^^ is exactly what I predicted ---- rhetorical wankers with nothing constructive to add except to crow "will never work", carrying with them no basis at all.

If you're not imaginative enough to come up with a way it will work, then you're part of what's keeping it from happening. Naysayers have never accomplished anything but naysaying.

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

I would really like to see every massive new entitlement proposal be accompanied by at least 75% of its anticipated costs being paid for by eliminating other programs. You could probably find most of that in duplicated efforts.

No probably about it.
It was reported, sometime back, about how there was somewhere around 47 federally funded job training programs doing the exact same thing as the others

 

[Pogo]

"Cut them lose with a half-assed background", Pogo?
Seems to have worked for 300 years.

Now, suddenly, we have to provide everything to someone in order for them to succeed? How insulting

Uh huh. A child born in 1715 needed the same skills as one born today huh?

Don't think so. Most people couldn't even read or write. Let alone manage finances or navigate the internet.

 

[hortysir]

"Cut them lose with a half-assed background", Pogo?
Seems to have worked for 300 years.

Now, suddenly, we have to provide everything to someone in order for them to succeed? How insulting

Uh huh. A child born in 1715 needed the same skills as one born today huh?

Don't think so. Most people couldn't even read or write. Let alone manage finances or navigate the internet.

Yet we still stomped a mudhole in the ass of the world's biggest superpower of the time

 

[dannyboys]

If someone disagrees with a plan why should they come up with ideas to make it work?
If you want free colleges incorporate them into the bloated public school system.......we all know how helpful it is

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

Where are the figures to make that case? What's the funding for this idea?
oops -- it isn't articulated yet.

See what I mean? Naysaying before the plan is even constructed. Ergo -- wankers.

Wankers have never developed anything. They're the polar opposite of leaders and inventors. Rhetorical parasites.

Logic, son.....Logic.

If community college costs to attend now, it stands to reason that "free" community college (now attended by more students because of this plan) would cost more.

Also, how many of these students that will be working to "pay for it" will be working with a green card? I guess Obama's trying to plan ahead for the tidal wave of illegal children that just inundated our schools

Much desperation I smell. "Green cards"??

As already noted, you can't just bring children into the world that you've already made this complex and kick them to the curb. We're not birds running on instinct simply looking for berries and straw to make a nest; for better or worse (and it's both) we have used our brains to assemble this complex world. You bring a new soul into it, you owe that soul the tools to cope. What if you found a thread that interested you and it was on post 271 and the site wouldn't let you see the first 270? Wouldn't be much you could do with that thread, would there?

We already -- and this was certainly not always the case --- give these children the basic tools of language, reading and writing. Why do we invest in that, but then cut them loose with a half-assed background? How come we can afford that? What's the price of not doing that? Again, it's a striated caste society -- you'd just get there faster.

The other alternative is we go back to a hunter-gatherer society and all you need to know is where to find the bison and which plants are poisonous. But again, your culture would teach that too. And it doesn't charge you for it.

Dear GOD you are stupid. "We....give these children the basic tools of language, reading and writing."
The "children" being streamed through high CAN NOT READ OR WRITE!!!!!! That's a fucking FACT! There are thousands of scientific studies all pointing the same fucking conclusion! The US education system IS NOT FUCKING WORKING! You're living in some LIB dream world wherein you believe simply sending hundreds of thousands of fucking functional illiterates to fucking 'college' will somehow magically 'educate' them so have are ready to go to work doing one of those millions of "good paying jobs" BOBO promised to get elected.
Wake up pal.

 

[Pogo]

"Cut them lose with a half-assed background", Pogo?
Seems to have worked for 300 years.

Now, suddenly, we have to provide everything to someone in order for them to succeed? How insulting

Uh huh. A child born in 1715 needed the same skills as one born today huh?

Don't think so. Most people couldn't even read or write. Let alone manage finances or navigate the internet.

Yet we still stomped a mudhole in the ass of the world's biggest superpower of the time

See what I mean about literacy being vital?

 

[Pogo]

Back up there -- if someone disagrees with an idea they need to have a basis for that disagreement. Something with a bit more meat on its bones than "will never work". You can't just walk around spitting "will never work" and never have to say why it "will never work". That's what I mean by wanking.

How about, it's too expensive and we're broke?
That really doesn't matter much to this generation though

Where are the figures to make that case? What's the funding for this idea?
oops -- it isn't articulated yet.

See what I mean? Naysaying before the plan is even constructed. Ergo -- wankers.

Wankers have never developed anything. They're the polar opposite of leaders and inventors. Rhetorical parasites.

Logic, son.....Logic.

If community college costs to attend now, it stands to reason that "free" community college (now attended by more students because of this plan) would cost more.

Also, how many of these students that will be working to "pay for it" will be working with a green card? I guess Obama's trying to plan ahead for the tidal wave of illegal children that just inundated our schools

Much desperation I smell. "Green cards"??

As already noted, you can't just bring children into the world that you've already made this complex and kick them to the curb. We're not birds running on instinct simply looking for berries and straw to make a nest; for better or worse (and it's both) we have used our brains to assemble this complex world. You bring a new soul into it, you owe that soul the tools to cope. What if you found a thread that interested you and it was on post 271 and the site wouldn't let you see the first 270? Wouldn't be much you could do with that thread, would there?

We already -- and this was certainly not always the case --- give these children the basic tools of language, reading and writing. Why do we invest in that, but then cut them loose with a half-assed background? How come we can afford that? What's the price of not doing that? Again, it's a striated caste society -- you'd just get there faster.

The other alternative is we go back to a hunter-gatherer society and all you need to know is where to find the bison and which plants are poisonous. But again, your culture would teach that too. And it doesn't charge you for it.

Dear GOD you are stupid. "We....give these children the basic tools of language, reading and writing."
The "children" being streamed through high CAN NOT READ OR WRITE!!!!!! That's a fucking FACT! There are thousands of scientific studies all pointing the same fucking conclusion! The US education system IS NOT FUCKING WORKING! You're living in some LIB dream world wherein you believe simply sending hundreds of thousands of fucking functional illiterates to fucking 'college' will somehow magically 'educate' them so have are ready to go to work doing one of those millions of "good paying jobs" BOBO promised to get elected.
Wake up pal.

Still stuck on "I had a Volvo that continually broke down, therefore all CARS break down".
Then he wants to call other people stupid.

If people can't read or write, how are your words getting on this page?

Hard to believe....

 

[Manonthestreet]

Apparently lot of the cost for this would be dumped on the states............

 

[Conservative65]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

Don't worry about it. It would require legislation and we all know that the Republican controlled Congress is not about to provide free education for anyone.

Maybe that's because, unlike you, they realize it isn't free.

If you want to provide a free education to another person's kid, write a check and fund it with your money. MY money goes to MY kids. Let the other kid's parents pay for theirs. Before you call me selfish, keep in mind that I am not asking those other parents to do anything I'm not already doing myself for my kids.

 

[Pogo]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

Don't worry about it. It would require legislation and we all know that the Republican controlled Congress is not about to provide free education for anyone.

Maybe that's because, unlike you, they realize it isn't free.

If you want to provide a free education to another person's kid, write a check and fund it with your money. MY money goes to MY kids. Let the other kid's parents pay for theirs. Before you call me selfish, keep in mind that I am not asking those other parents to do anything I'm not already doing myself for my kids.

That's actualy the way it was done -- before the Industrial Revolution. Now we insist everybody go to school. And we pay to make that happen. We all do, whether we have kids or not. And we do that because the complexity of our culture demands it.

All we're talking about in the big picture here is a matter of degree in what we're already doing.

 

[SAYIT]

Listen ... I'm as fiscally conservative as anyone here and I'm not suggesting we fund a new gov't giveaway but rather that we redirect funds from other gov't mistakes to pay for this. No new dollars for funding and no new taxes but maybe, just maybe, some valuable new income taxpayers to help lighten my load. It seems more like an investment than a shiny new gov't trough.

 

[Pogo]

Listen ... I'm as fiscally conservative as anyone here and I'm not suggesting we fund a new gov't giveaway but rather that we redirect funds from other gov't mistakes to pay for this. No new dollars for funding and no new taxes but maybe, just maybe, some valuable new income taxpayers to help lighten my load. It seems more like an investment than a shiny new gov't trough.

"Investment" is exactly what it is. With an investment you get, or reasonably expect to get, something back; with a giveaway (free food, whatever), you don't. You teach the man to fish, and the man gives you fish back later, plus he feeds himself, making free food unnecessary.

Not that complex really.

 

[Circle_Breaker]

The democratic/republican relationship reminds me off Chris Traeger (D) and Ben Wyatt (R) of parks and rec.

There are all just playing you.

 

[SAYIT]

Listen ... I'm as fiscally conservative as anyone here and I'm not suggesting we fund a new gov't giveaway but rather that we redirect funds from other gov't mistakes to pay for this. No new dollars for funding and no new taxes but maybe, just maybe, some valuable new income taxpayers to help lighten my load. It seems more like an investment than a shiny new gov't trough.

"Investment" is exactly what it is. With an investment you get, or reasonably expect to get, something back; with a giveaway (free food, whatever), you don't. You teach the man to fish, and the man gives you fish back later, plus he feeds himself, making free food unnecessary.

Not that complex really.

I understand that some people, for a variety of reasons, reject out-of-hand anything Obama proposes. I prefer to look beyond the messenger and instead judge the message. This seems like a win-win for America and I'd like to see wide bipartisan support for it provided the funding is redirected from existing gov't giveaways.
BTW, none of my kids will benefit directly from this.

 

[Manonthestreet]

...Govt should mandate 50% reduction of tuition at all govt run colleges problem solved no new money to seek

 

[hortysir]

...Govt should mandate 50% reduction of tuition at all govt run colleges problem solved no new money to seek

Why do you hate children

 

[Manonthestreet]

hate em I just saved em with the stroke of a pen

 

[SAYIT]

hate em I just saved em with the stroke of a pen

Sure ... and require all employees to take a 70% pay cut. That works.

 

[Manonthestreet]

hate em I just saved em with the stroke of a pen

Sure ... and require all employees to take a 70% pay cut. That works.

Please its govt.........waste galore going on....cut the coaches pay cut the school Presidents pay............. you get to listen to TA's and buy the Professors book.......... do it for the children...end their slavery to big ed

 

[Conservative65]

Obama President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

President Barack Obama announced a proposal Thursday to provide two years of free community-college tuition to American students who maintain good grades.

He also said that this plan will save at least 3.800$ per year, it means that student should continue working, because this plan will not give them: food, clothing and house! What for this circus? I don't know!

Don't worry about it. It would require legislation and we all know that the Republican controlled Congress is not about to provide free education for anyone.

Maybe that's because, unlike you, they realize it isn't free.

If you want to provide a free education to another person's kid, write a check and fund it with your money. MY money goes to MY kids. Let the other kid's parents pay for theirs. Before you call me selfish, keep in mind that I am not asking those other parents to do anything I'm not already doing myself for my kids.

That's actualy the way it was done -- before the Industrial Revolution. Now we insist everybody go to school. And we pay to make that happen. We all do, whether we have kids or not. And we do that because the complexity of our culture demands it.

All we're talking about in the big picture here is a matter of degree in what we're already doing.

You seem to be talking about grades 1 - 12. I'm talking about Obozo's proposal for what amounts to grades 13 and 14 with community college.

Someone paying for their own college is the way it was done when I went for all three degrees. I received one in 1987, one in 1996, and one in 2012. Not once did it cross my mind for the taxpayers to be forced to fund any of them.