Obama throws Bush under the bus......accuses him of torture

[rightwinger]

EXCLUSIVE: Waterboarding Too Dangerous, Internal DoD Memo Reveals

Yoo cited the thousands of US servicemen who have undergone SERE training and said, "we don’t think it amounts to torture because we would not be doing it to our own soldiers otherwise."

However, a previously unreleased internal Department of Defense (DoD) memo, summarizing a review of the Navy SERE program in late February – early March 2007, reveals that there was fierce criticism within the DoD of the Navy SERE school in North Island, San Diego, for being the only SERE facility to still use waterboarding in its training program.

The memo, obtained by Truthout, stated that the use of waterboarding left students "psychologically defeated" and impaired in the ability to develop "psychological hardiness."

The Clare memo stated, in part:



3. Area of Concern: The JPRA official stance is that the water board should not be used as a physical pressure during Level C SERE training. This position is based on factors that have the potential to affect not only students but also the whole DoD SERE program. The way the water board is most often employed, it leaves students psychologically defeated with no ability to resist under pressure. Once a student is taught that they can be beaten, and there is no way to resist, it is difficult to develop psychological hardiness. None of the other schools use the water board that leaves the San Diego school as a standout.

 

[Theowl32]

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

Well, its not exactly the same

They know there are medical personnel standing by, they know what it is about before it starts, they know they are going to be OK and that it will only be done once

It is different when you fear for your life and don't know what those crazy motherfuckers are going to do

Its exactly the same, there were medical personnel standing by when KSM and the others were waterboarded. None of them have any permanent physical or mental damage as a result of it.----------but it is very likely that thousands of american lives may have been saved as a result of the intel gathered from them-----maybe YOUR life was saved.

You have to understand. The main difference is the American soldiers are usually not as dark in their skin pigment. It is more of a beige pinkish hue. Therefore, not exactly the same.

Notice, how they jump up and down and pretend to give a shit about the poor peaceful peace making brown victims of oil greedy white republicans in the Middle East. He calls the Americans crazies.

That is what he means and the left means by.....different.

 

[rightwinger]

JPRA indicates that the waterboard technique as used in the SERE schools is "inconsistent" with the JPRA philosophy that its training and procedures be "safe, effective" and provides "a positive learning experience."



The water board has always been the most extreme pressure that required intense supervision and oversight because of the inherent risks associated with its employment…. Forcing answers under the extreme duress of the water board does not teach resistance or resilience, but teaches that you can be beaten. When a student’s ability to develop psychological resiliency is compromised… it may create unintended consequences regarding their perception of survivability during a real world SERE event. Based on these concerns and the risks associated with using the water board, we strongly recommend that you discontinue using it [underlined in the original].

 

[zeke]

If we started burying people alive and letting them stay buried till they passed out from lack of oxygen before we revived them, would that be torture redfish?

No marks, no physical harm at all. Mental harm may be different but would that action be torture?
Just curious where the limits might be.

 

[rightwinger]

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

Well, its not exactly the same

They know there are medical personnel standing by, they know what it is about before it starts, they know they are going to be OK and that it will only be done once

It is different when you fear for your life and don't know what those crazy motherfuckers are going to do

Its exactly the same, there were medical personnel standing by when KSM and the others were waterboarded. None of them have any permanent physical or mental damage as a result of it.----------but it is very likely that thousands of american lives may have been saved as a result of the intel gathered from them-----maybe YOUR life was saved.

The August 2002 torture memos drafted by Yoo and former OLC attorney Jay Bybee, as well as memos written in 2005 by former OLC acting head Bradbury, had relied in part on assurances from the SERE program and personnel that the waterboard technique was not physically harmful, was used upon SERE students, albeit at a lesser degree of application, and was, therefore, with medical monitoring, safe to use.

 

[Erand7899]

Of course on top of all of that they also claim there was torture. The left, as I have said a lot of times and never get a response and we all know why, claim water boarding is torture. Trust this, they only whip up into a frenzy when a poor little brown terrorist (even the one that master minded 911) is water boarded. Do they say one fucking word about our own soldiers being water boarded during training? No, of course not. Why does an asshole criminal like Obama or his retarded minions NOT care about that? Well it is really simple. They hate America, and they truly hate the American military, especially if they are white. Not true? We all know it is true.

No one responds to your stupid remarks because your comment on this topic is so ridiculous. US military persons who submit to water boarding do so voluntarily. It is part of their training. They volunteer and request to be given the privilege to serve in units and occupations that have a higher than normal chance of capture. More significantly, they know that the persons applying the torture will probably not actually kill them by drowning. The enemy torture victim does not know that.

The five year old that gets her legs blown off by an American missile aimed at the guy two tables away, does not know that we didn't actually want to blow her legs off. Those damn left wing American values again. Blowing the legs off an innocent five year old in order to get a terrorist? OK. Waterboarding the terrorist? Horrible.

Foreign terrorists deserve due process. American terrorists, not so much.

You loons need to figure out what real American values are, and what really is torture.

 

[Meister]

Obama: U.S. 'crossed a line,' tortured after 9/11 - CNN.com

(CNN) -- President Barack Obama acknowledged Friday that the United States "crossed a line" and tortured al Qaeda detainees after the 9/11 terror attacks.
The comments at a White House news conference were the President's strongest on the controversial subject since he came into office denouncing what he described as the Bush years of torturing alleged terrorists, also known as "enhanced interrogation."
"When we engaged in some of these enhanced interrogation techniques, techniques that I believe and I think any fair-minded person would believe were torture, we crossed a line," Obama said. "And that needs to be ... understood and accepted. And we have to, as a country, take responsibility for that so that hopefully we don't do it again in the future."

About time our country stopped covering for the abuses of Bush/Cheney

It's an election year and Obama has really screwed the pooch on so many levels that he has to try and pull one more Boooooosh out of his ass to try and save the Senate.
It's old news and everyone knew it was going on, even pelosi. So now this is front page news? Really?

Desperate politicians make desperate speeches. Nobody is more desperate than Obama this year. Joe the Plumber could have beat Obama if he was running these numbers he's sporting.

 

[Erand7899]

Another righty droping their love affair with Putin for Netenyahu

Did Fox play a role? Doesn't seem spontaneous

Will Netenyahu let you torture?

Now you're just another blabbing leftist fool. What happened to the new age Obama was gonna usher in?

Deflect much?

Let's get back to your love of torture

Are you trying to ride another high horse to death, Rightwinger? Do you consider blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old to be torture? Do you consider shooting a terrorist in the gut, and leave him to die, screaming in pain, to be torture?

Do you consider the fire bombing of Tokyo to be torture for the tens of thousands of people fleeing for their lives from the fire storms?

All you left wingers have very selective sensibilities, and your concept of torture is another of those selective sensibilities.

 

[Camp]

Of course on top of all of that they also claim there was torture. The left, as I have said a lot of times and never get a response and we all know why, claim water boarding is torture. Trust this, they only whip up into a frenzy when a poor little brown terrorist (even the one that master minded 911) is water boarded. Do they say one fucking word about our own soldiers being water boarded during training? No, of course not. Why does an asshole criminal like Obama or his retarded minions NOT care about that? Well it is really simple. They hate America, and they truly hate the American military, especially if they are white. Not true? We all know it is true.

No one responds to your stupid remarks because your comment on this topic is so ridiculous. US military persons who submit to water boarding do so voluntarily. It is part of their training. They volunteer and request to be given the privilege to serve in units and occupations that have a higher than normal chance of capture. More significantly, they know that the persons applying the torture will probably not actually kill them by drowning. The enemy torture victim does not know that.

The five year old that gets her legs blown off by an American missile aimed at the guy two tables away, does not know that we didn't actually want to blow her legs off. Those damn left wing American values again. Blowing the legs off an innocent five year old in order to get a terrorist? OK. Waterboarding the terrorist? Horrible.

Foreign terrorists deserve due process. American terrorists, not so much.

You loons need to figure out what real American values are, and what really is torture.

Well, we can do it another way. We can take a known terrorist off the target list because he keeps an American citizens in his vicinity at all times. So, the worst of the terrorist can simply take up with an American recruit and be free to operate without fear of a drone attack or airstrike. We can also use personnel to attempt capture or eyes on close up assassination of the target to avoid collateral damage. The problem with that is that the chances are there will be more collateral damage done during the operation than a targeted drone or airstrike.
How about if when you remind us of the horrors of war, you offer up your solutions.

 

[rightwinger]

Now you're just another blabbing leftist fool. What happened to the new age Obama was gonna usher in?

Deflect much?

Let's get back to your love of torture

Are you trying to ride another high horse to death, Rightwinger? Do you consider blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old to be torture? Do you consider shooting a terrorist in the gut, and leave him to die, screaming in pain, to be torture?

Do you consider the fire bombing of Tokyo to be torture for the tens of thousands of people fleeing for their lives from the fire storms?

All you left wingers have very selective sensibilities, and your concept of torture is another of those selective sensibilities.

We have always acknowledged the horrors of war. But shooting an enemy combatant is not the same.

I can drop a bomb and blow off your leg. It is not the same thing as cutting off your leg as I torture you

Someone being tortured has already surrendered and is under your control. There are principles of war and principles of humanity that dictate how you treat prisoners

The US used to be at the forefront in our civilized treatment of our prisoners....under the Bush administration...we slipped

 

[RKMBrown]

Deflect much?

Let's get back to your love of torture

Are you trying to ride another high horse to death, Rightwinger? Do you consider blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old to be torture? Do you consider shooting a terrorist in the gut, and leave him to die, screaming in pain, to be torture?

Do you consider the fire bombing of Tokyo to be torture for the tens of thousands of people fleeing for their lives from the fire storms?

All you left wingers have very selective sensibilities, and your concept of torture is another of those selective sensibilities.

We have always acknowledged the horrors of war. But shooting an enemy combatant is not the same.

I can drop a bomb and blow off your leg. It is not the same thing as cutting off your leg as I torture you

Someone being tortured has already surrendered and is under your control. There are principles of war and principles of humanity that dictate how you treat prisoners

The US used to be at the forefront in our civilized treatment of our prisoners....under the Bush administration...we slipped

Bullshit. Torture has always been around since the dawn of man. The democrats simply made it a political issue to get elected in as part of their new Vietnam reelection campaign strategy. You know the one where they were for going into Iraq before they were against going into Iraq.

 

[Nosmo King]

Republicans are the party of torture after all

They actually celebrate it

Other than sociopaths (who exist in both parties) I don't think anyone "celebrates" it. But I can tell you quite honestly, that if someone kidnapped my little girl and I knew he knew where she was I would make him suffer till he told me where she was.

Anyone who says different in a similar situation is a flat out liar.

And that's why the parents of missing children are not in charge of the investigations, the prosecutions and the sentencing of criminals. Vigilantes do not dispense justice. They dispense revenge.

 

[rightwinger]

Are you trying to ride another high horse to death, Rightwinger? Do you consider blowing the legs off of an innocent five year old to be torture? Do you consider shooting a terrorist in the gut, and leave him to die, screaming in pain, to be torture?

Do you consider the fire bombing of Tokyo to be torture for the tens of thousands of people fleeing for their lives from the fire storms?

All you left wingers have very selective sensibilities, and your concept of torture is another of those selective sensibilities.

We have always acknowledged the horrors of war. But shooting an enemy combatant is not the same.

I can drop a bomb and blow off your leg. It is not the same thing as cutting off your leg as I torture you

Someone being tortured has already surrendered and is under your control. There are principles of war and principles of humanity that dictate how you treat prisoners

The US used to be at the forefront in our civilized treatment of our prisoners....under the Bush administration...we slipped

Bullshit. Torture has always been around since the dawn of man. The democrats simply made it a political issue to get elected in as part of their new Vietnam reelection campaign strategy. You know the one where they were for going into Iraq before they were against going into Iraq.

Are you claiming that Republicans have always supported torture?

Have you checked with John McCain?

 

[rightwinger]

John McCain on waterboarding

Senator John McCain on Waterboarding and Torture | RealClearPolitics

KING: Bachmann, Cain, Perry there. The Romney campaign said after the debate he does not consider waterboarding to be torture.

What did you make of that, Senator?

MCCAIN: I'm disappointed. Ask any military lawyer, ask any person who knows about the Geneva Conventions that we're signatories to. We actually prosecuted Japanese war criminals specifically for the act of waterboarding against Americans.

And just two additional points, John.

One, it doesn't work. If you put enough physical pain on somebody, they will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear in order to -- for the pain to stop.

And second of all, what about our moral standing in the world?

It -- Abu Ghraib was a terribly damaging situation and one that we still have not recovered from. I still want to close Guantanamo Bay. But the Obama administration has mishandled it so badly that it can't be closed now.

But the point is that waterboarding is a -- is a -- is an affront to all of the standards that we believe in and adhere to of humane treatment of people who are human beings.

And, of course, I am disappointed at the statements that were made.

And, again, it doesn't work.

 

[Meister]

We have always acknowledged the horrors of war. But shooting an enemy combatant is not the same.

I can drop a bomb and blow off your leg. It is not the same thing as cutting off your leg as I torture you

Someone being tortured has already surrendered and is under your control. There are principles of war and principles of humanity that dictate how you treat prisoners

The US used to be at the forefront in our civilized treatment of our prisoners....under the Bush administration...we slipped

Bullshit. Torture has always been around since the dawn of man. The democrats simply made it a political issue to get elected in as part of their new Vietnam reelection campaign strategy. You know the one where they were for going into Iraq before they were against going into Iraq.

Are you claiming that Republicans have always supported torture?

Have you checked with John McCain?

It seems that both parties have supported torture. But, it is an election year.

 

[rightwinger]

Bullshit. Torture has always been around since the dawn of man. The democrats simply made it a political issue to get elected in as part of their new Vietnam reelection campaign strategy. You know the one where they were for going into Iraq before they were against going into Iraq.

Are you claiming that Republicans have always supported torture?

Have you checked with John McCain?

It seems that both parties have supported torture. But, it is an election year.

Who? Where?

 

[Ibentoken]

hey RW?.....you told me this aint a partisan thing when i never said it was....and now here is the guy who said it was,saying so again....and your thanking him?....are you that afraid to criticize your little lefty buddies or are you just some kind of hypocrite or someone who just likes to talk about shit he knows nothing about?.....i would like to know.....

Is there anyone on this thread other than the partisan right defending torture?

If you can point out any liberals on this thread who defend America engaging in torture, I will gladly attack them

Please provide

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

Is there anyone on this thread other than the partisan right defending torture?

If you can point out any liberals on this thread who defend America engaging in torture, I will gladly attack them

Please provide

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

Well, its not exactly the same

They know there are medical personnel standing by, they know what it is about before it starts, they know they are going to be OK and that it will only be done once

It is different when you fear for your life and don't know what those crazy motherfuckers are going to do

You don't know who the "crazy motherfuckers" are.

 

[The Rabbi]

Has Holder announced indictments against Bush-era officials yet?

 

[Redfish]

If we started burying people alive and letting them stay buried till they passed out from lack of oxygen before we revived them, would that be torture redfish?

No marks, no physical harm at all. Mental harm may be different but would that action be torture?
Just curious where the limits might be.

Not a valid analogy. No one has ever died from waterboarding, being buried alive has resulted in millions of deaths.

Now, if we want to define torture, lets look at what muslims do to those who do not kowtow to mohammed.
beheading
feet first into a wood chipper
pushed off a third floor roof
electrodes to the testicles
eyes burned out with a red hot poker
gang rape
cutting off hands, feet, ears, noses
making you stand in a water filled room and then dropping electric leads into the water
pulling off fingernails
cutting off tongues

you libtards get all spun up about waterboarding but say nothing about the methods of your muslim friends. you are lunatics.

 

[Redfish]

Is there anyone on this thread other than the partisan right defending torture?

If you can point out any liberals on this thread who defend America engaging in torture, I will gladly attack them

Please provide

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

american soldiers are waterboarded as part of their training, are we torturing our own military??????? you are a moron.

Well, its not exactly the same

They know there are medical personnel standing by, they know what it is about before it starts, they know they are going to be OK and that it will only be done once

It is different when you fear for your life and don't know what those crazy motherfuckers are going to do

You don't know who the "crazy motherfuckers" are.

most of them reside in the whitehouse or on MSNBC