Obama was wrong - 14,000 people do not lose Health Insurance every day

[Oddball]

Oh looks like our nation's forests aren't important enough for bitter dude.

Well here's some more:

(Here's hoping he finds our water and prison system important enough)

Federal Aviation Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Airplanes, that important enough for you Dude?

I also fly ....The FAA is a joke amongst anyone in the know, which obviously doesn't include you..

Canada -yes Canada- privatized their ATC over ten years ago, and it kicks the shit out of American ATC.

Federal Railroad Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Trains, that not important at all?

Again, you can't be serious........Amtrak is one of the biggest money pits of all.

Institute of Museum and Library Services - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Library, free books for our future of the nation to read, and for us. Sounds pretty important to me.

If I leave you in charge of all the books, will you promise to leave me alone??

United States Patent and Trademark Office - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would say Patents are pretty important, don't you think?

Provided for in Article 1 Section 8.....Do you even know what's in the Constitution??

OH! Here's a kicker!
Small Business Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SBA has directly or indirectly helped nearly 20 million businesses and currently holds a portfolio of roughly 219,000 loans worth more than $45 billion making it the largest single financial backer of businesses in the United States.[3]

Welfare is welfare....When you take your economics courses next year, be sure to look up the concept of "opportunity costs".

Like I already said...Ditch the pretense that you're the first 18-year old know-it-all the world has ever known. Take it from a graduate from the college of hard knocks.

 

[DiveCon]

well, you'd have to go back to when they were first started and see what they were projected to cost

and most of those were so far back i doubt you can find that info online

Are you fucking kidding me? This is about the current budget costs. You'd be ignoring inflation among so many other factors if you're going to estimate the projected cost when some of these programs first started.

Come on DiveCon, get off those drugs.

not on drugs, but you are acting like YOU are
that was exactly the premise that Dude presented
you abandoned that premise

 

[Modbert]

not on drugs, but you are acting like YOU are
that was exactly the premise that Dude presented
you abandoned that premise

Again, if you want to be ignorant and ignore the other factors such as inflation, be my guest. These programs do their job, and do it at the budget they're given.

No program, may it be public or private over time is going to stay the same cost, especially over 20+ years. This also due to the loss of value in the dollar, over 95% I believe since the creation of the Federal Reserve.

The Premise was this:

As soon as you can name the federal program that has delivered what it promised for what it was projected to cost, I'm all ears.....But you can't.

When I took that premise, I took it under the impression of the budget for that year along with it delivering what it promised. Most of the programs I named deliver what they promised very well, and mostly all of them were under budget.

You can hold onto to the whole "Well this program didn't stay to what it originally was projected to cost in 1960's or 1790's or what the fuck ever. If it will make you feel better at night that every single Government program in existence is a failure then be my guest. However, these programs that I named, most of them without debate (the transportation ones can always be debated about) can be considered ones that go and do their job under or at their budget for the year.

 

[Oddball]

When I took that premise, I took it under the impression of the budget for that year along with it delivering what it promised. Most of the programs I named deliver what they promised very well, and mostly all of them were under budget.

You can hold onto to the whole "Well this program didn't stay to what it originally was projected to cost in 1960's or 1790's or what the fuck ever. If it will make you feel better at night that every single Government program in existence is a failure then be my guest. However, these programs that I named, most of them without debate (the transportation ones can always be debated about) can be considered ones that go and do their job under or at their budget for the year.

Speaking of moving the goalposts........

 

[Modbert]

Speaking of moving the goalposts........

Name me one private program that is over 50 years old, has stayed at the same original projected cost, AND does a good job at what it's suppose to do.

 

[DiveCon]

not on drugs, but you are acting like YOU are
that was exactly the premise that Dude presented
you abandoned that premise

Again, if you want to be ignorant and ignore the other factors such as inflation, be my guest. These programs do their job, and do it at the budget they're given.

No program, may it be public or private over time is going to stay the same cost, especially over 20+ years. This also due to the loss of value in the dollar, over 95% I believe since the creation of the Federal Reserve.

The Premise was this:

As soon as you can name the federal program that has delivered what it promised for what it was projected to cost, I'm all ears.....But you can't.

When I took that premise, I took it under the impression of the budget for that year along with it delivering what it promised. Most of the programs I named deliver what they promised very well, and mostly all of them were under budget.

You can hold onto to the whole "Well this program didn't stay to what it originally was projected to cost in 1960's or 1790's or what the fuck ever. If it will make you feel better at night that every single Government program in existence is a failure then be my guest. However, these programs that I named, most of them without debate (the transportation ones can always be debated about) can be considered ones that go and do their job under or at their budget for the year.

not only do they not deliver what was promised, not by a long shot
i was refering to the initial startup costs bobby
you really cant be THAT fucking ignorant to think i expected a program to cost the same today as when it started
thats just fucking STUPID

 

[DiveCon]

Speaking of moving the goalposts........

Name me one private program that is over 50 years old, has stayed at the same original projected cost, AND does a good job at what it's suppose to do.

it wouldnt have been around had it not met its costs when it was created

so that is another FAIL

 

[Modbert]

it wouldnt have been around had it not met its costs when it was created

so that is another FAIL

That's not always the case, but if you think so. There are several private programs today that run at a loss but are only surviving because the owner continues to pump money into it.

 

[Modbert]

not only do they not deliver what was promised, not by a long shot
i was refering to the initial startup costs bobby
you really cant be THAT fucking ignorant to think i expected a program to cost the same today as when it started
thats just fucking STUPID

Really, so the SBA doesn't deliver what it promises?

I'm pretty sure the SBA is the one program that you and Dude were looking for. Though he doesn't think so.

And I hope you weren't, but you'd be surprised at what I've seen some people say.

 

[Oddball]

Speaking of moving the goalposts........

Name me one private program that is over 50 years old, has stayed at the same original projected cost, AND does a good job at what it's suppose to do.

Boeing
3M
IBM
Proctor & Gamble
Pillsbury
Kroger
Dayton/Hudson/Target
Johnson & Johnson
Mack
Cummins
Detroit Diesel/Allison
Sears
Kraft Foods
General Mills
Lockheed/Martin
Dupont

I can go on, if you want.

 

[DiveCon]

not only do they not deliver what was promised, not by a long shot
i was refering to the initial startup costs bobby
you really cant be THAT fucking ignorant to think i expected a program to cost the same today as when it started
thats just fucking STUPID

Really, so the SBA doesn't deliver what it promises?

I'm pretty sure the SBA is the one program that you and Dude were looking for. Though he doesn't think so.

And I hope you weren't, but you'd be surprised at what I've seen some people say.

its just more government welfare
the only difference is it might actually create jobs
which is a good thing
but its still not the best way to spend tax dollars

 

[DiveCon]

Speaking of moving the goalposts........

Name me one private program that is over 50 years old, has stayed at the same original projected cost, AND does a good job at what it's suppose to do.

Boeing
3M
IBM
Proctor & Gamble
Pillsbury
Kroger
Dayton/Hudson/Target
Johnson & Johnson
Mack
Cummins
Detroit Diesel/Allison
Sears
Kraft Foods
General Mills
Lockheed/Martin
Dupont

I can go on, if you want.

he changed the premise to "stays at original cost"
which wasnt what you had asked

 

[Oddball]

not only do they not deliver what was promised, not by a long shot
i was refering to the initial startup costs bobby
you really cant be THAT fucking ignorant to think i expected a program to cost the same today as when it started
thats just fucking STUPID

Really, so the SBA doesn't deliver what it promises?

I'm pretty sure the SBA is the one program that you and Dude were looking for. Though he doesn't think so.

And I hope you weren't, but you'd be surprised at what I've seen some people say.

Do yourself a favor and Google "opportunity costs".

It'll help you to not look like such an ignoramus in the future.

 

[Modbert]

its just more government welfare
the only difference is it might actually create jobs
which is a good thing
but its still not the best way to spend tax dollars

It's loans, not Government Welfare. Loans, as in they will eventually be paid back. Plus, as you said, it creates jobs, how is that not good?

Small Business Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SBA has directly or indirectly helped nearly 20 million businesses and currently holds a portfolio of roughly 219,000 loans worth more than $45 billion making it the largest single financial backer of businesses in the United States

20 million businesses, that's a lot of jobs.

It was started under Eisenhower (perhaps the last true Fiscal Conservative Republican President), and has survived attempts from Republicans in 1996 and the Bush Administration of elimination.

 

[Modbert]

Do yourself a favor and Google "opportunity costs".

It'll help you to not look like such an ignoramus in the future.

I know what opportunity costs are, might want to be a little less arrogant and swarmy sounding bitter.

However, this has directly/indirectly helped 20 million businesses, you don't think that's a help for the economy in general? Never mind the countless jobs it probably saved?

The money was better loaned out there then given out on welfare where they will never get it back.

 

[Oddball]

Small Business Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

holds a portfolio of roughly 219,000 loans worth more than $45 billion making it the largest single financial backer of businesses in the United States

20 million businesses, that's a lot of jobs.

It was started under Eisenhower (perhaps the last true Fiscal Conservative Republican President), and has survived attempts from Republicans in 1996 and the Bush Administration of elimination.

Where do you think they got the money to do that....The Tooth Fairy??

 

[Oddball]

Do yourself a favor and Google "opportunity costs".

It'll help you to not look like such an ignoramus in the future.

I know what opportunity costs are, might want to be a little less arrogant and swarmy sounding bitter.

However, this has directly/indirectly helped 20 million businesses, you don't think that's a help for the economy in general? Never mind the countless jobs it probably saved?

The money was better loaned out there then given out on welfare where they will never get it back.

You could do the same....Throwing stones and all that.

Like I asked in my previous post, where do you think that money came from??

What does lining the pockets of SBA bureaucrats produce that anyone wants to buy??

 

[Modbert]

You could do the same....Throwing stones and all that.

Like I asked in my previous post, where do you think that money came from??

What does lining the pockets of SBA bureaucrats produce that anyone wants to buy??

I never said I know everything, I've said it in the past as well. The only reason I even originally got involved with this Bitter is because you seem to think you're a know-it-all on economics, and therefore are never wrong, ever. (Plus it's better then going back and forth with you playing thought nazi.)

Yes, I know where the money comes from. Secondly, care to prove that second statement with some evidence.

 

[DiveCon]

its just more government welfare
the only difference is it might actually create jobs
which is a good thing
but its still not the best way to spend tax dollars

It's loans, not Government Welfare. Loans, as in they will eventually be paid back. Plus, as you said, it creates jobs, how is that not good?

Small Business Administration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The SBA has directly or indirectly helped nearly 20 million businesses and currently holds a portfolio of roughly 219,000 loans worth more than $45 billion making it the largest single financial backer of businesses in the United States

20 million businesses, that's a lot of jobs.

It was started under Eisenhower (perhaps the last true Fiscal Conservative Republican President), and has survived attempts from Republicans in 1996 and the Bush Administration of elimination.

yeah, because the government is the only place the loans money to businesses

 

[Modbert]

yeah, because the government is the only place the loans money to businesses

Never said it was. However, yes or no, this program has been more of a help then a hurt for the American people and the American economy since it's creation?