Obamacare just got $111 BILLION more expensive..WTF???

[Conservative]

Folks, relax. The numbers you think of when you think of the cost of the ACA--the numbers it was "sold" on if that's how you prefer to think of it--were the CBO estimates.

The CBO estimates for exchange subsidies + exchange cost sharing reductions for 2014-2021: $519 billion.

The FY2013 budget request from the White House for exchange subsidies + exchange cost sharing reductions, 2014-2021: a little less than $524 billion.

A rather small discrepancy.

Why the FY12 White House request undershot the CBO estimates so far, I don't know. But the expected cost of the law hasn't increased by $111 billion.

So see wingnuts? A simple misunderstanding by Faux News. Again.

The misunderstanding is yours, as it was an AP story carried by FOX. That leaves the 'simple' part pointing straight at you.

 

[hortysir]

I haven't read the specific details, so I'm just going to ask.......

Hasn't the price of EVERYTHING gone up in the last year?

 

[Greenbeard]

So, the budget does NOT contain an increase of $111 billion in the cost of Obamacare?

Not an increase over what we thought it would cost. The ten year price tag was ~$940 billion for the coverage provisions. That's pretty much where we're at right now. The ten-year budget window has obviously shifted back by two years from the original score but the FY13 budget request from the White House that has so upset you is in line with the CBO's estimates for the costs over the new period.

The $111 billion in "new" spending is an illusion that rightwing has chosen to entertain itself with this week. Nothing has actually changed.

 

[Conservative]

White House Quietly Increases Budget for Obamacare's Exchange Subsidies by $111 Billion

I would say this says it does.

Again, the change is between the White House's FY12 and FY13 budget requests.

I don't know of anyone who was judging the cost of the exchange subsidies based on the White House's FY12 budget request. Personally, I never bothered looking at that request before today.

The expected cost of the subsidies--the estimates you read in the newspapers--has always been what the CBO has been projecting. For whatever reason, the White House's budget request last year was quite a bit less than what the CBO was projecting. This current budget request--for FY13--brings their request in line with what CBO has been projecting all along.

I'd be fascinated to hear what exactly they were doing with last year's budget request. But again, the expected cost of the law hasn't increased by $111 billion.

So, the AP people were lying to make Obama look bad, right?

 

[uscitizen]

Shades of the pill bill.
I remember how the right raised hell about the lowball cost estimate by the Bush admin. They fired the guy who brought up the subject.

 

[Listening]

Oops, how did I land in this wingnutty thread..

Just lucky I guess.

I am sure you will bring great amounts of wisdom with you though.



Are you saying they didn't increase the budget by 111 Billion ?

 

[Greenbeard]

White House Quietly Increases Budget for Obamacare's Exchange Subsidies by $111 Billion

I would say this says it does.

Again, the change is between the White House's FY12 and FY13 budget requests.

I don't know of anyone who was judging the cost of the exchange subsidies based on the White House's FY12 budget request. Personally, I never bothered looking at that request before today.

The expected cost of the subsidies--the estimates you read in the newspapers--has always been what the CBO has been projecting. For whatever reason, the White House's budget request last year was quite a bit less than what the CBO was projecting. This current budget request--for FY13--brings their request in line with what CBO has been projecting all along.

I'd be fascinated to hear what exactly they were doing with last year's budget request. But again, the expected cost of the law hasn't increased by $111 billion.

So, the AP people were lying to make Obama look bad, right?

Lying about what? I just pointed out that for whatever reason the FY12 request was far lower than the official scorekeeper's (i.e. CBO's) estimates of the law's costs. That discrepancy is real and needs to be explained. The FY13 budget brings the administration's requests in line with the legislative watchdog's estimates. The price tag calculated by the CBO that's been the standard number since before the law passed hasn't changed, the administration is simply better aligned with it this time around.

 

[Conservative]

They gave a number which it turns out is wrong by 111 billion. And you play it off like it was nothing. Go ahead.

But don't doublespeak in behalf of an incompetent White House.

I'm not playing it off as if it was nothing. I think they need to explain the discrepancy ($413 billion for exchange subsidies + exchange cost sharing reductions in the FY12 request is substantially below the CBO's estimate of $519 billion over the same time period). And I suspect the answer is an embarrassing arithmetical mistake in the FY12 request. Or some very weird assumptions they've wisely decided to abandon this go around.

But the fact remains: the FY13 budget request reinforces what the exchange subsidies been projected to cost all along: the CBO's estimates. These numbers are not $111 billion more than what the advertised projections have been all along, they're very much in line with them.

ObamaCare's Exchanges Are Estimated To Cost Taxpayers An Additional $111 Billion | RNC: Republican National Committee | GOP

The Obama White House Said That An Extra $111 Billion In Healthcare Spending Is “No Cause For Alarm.” “But administration officials say the big increase is no cause for alarm and that the administration is not forecasting an erosion of employer coverage or higher insurance costs.” (“Cost Estimate For Insurance Aid Jumps $111B; Administration Cites Technical Budget Issues,” The Associated Press, 3/2/12)

The White House admitted the increase... why can't you?

 

[Listening]

The price tag that's been the standard number since before the law passed hasn't changed.

There has been no standard.

The CBO blew the budget estimates right off the bat.

A broken clock is right two times a day.

 

[Conservative]

I'm not trying to dispel your obviously deep-seated suspicion that the world is out to fool you. I'm simply pointing out that the premise (and title) of this thread is incorrect.
.

tell that to the White House.

 

[Full-Auto]

They gave a number which it turns out is wrong by 111 billion. And you play it off like it was nothing. Go ahead.

But don't doublespeak in behalf of an incompetent White House.

I'm not playing it off as if it was nothing. I think they need to explain the discrepancy ($413 billion for exchange subsidies + exchange cost sharing reductions in the FY12 request is substantially below the CBO's estimate of $519 billion over the same time period). And I suspect the answer is an embarrassing arithmetical mistake in the FY12 request. Or some very weird assumptions they've wisely decided to abandon this go around.

But the fact remains: the FY13 budget request reinforces what the exchange subsidies been projected to cost all along: the CBO's estimates. These numbers are not $111 billion more than what the advertised projections have been all along, they're very much in line with them.

ObamaCare's Exchanges Are Estimated To Cost Taxpayers An Additional $111 Billion | RNC: Republican National Committee | GOP

The Obama White House Said That An Extra $111 Billion In Healthcare Spending Is “No Cause For Alarm.” “But administration officials say the big increase is no cause for alarm and that the administration is not forecasting an erosion of employer coverage or higher insurance costs.” (“Cost Estimate For Insurance Aid Jumps $111B; Administration Cites Technical Budget Issues,” The Associated Press, 3/2/12)

The White House admitted the increase... why can't you?

and that the administration is not forecasting an erosion of employer coverage or higher insurance costs.”

Yet does or will

 

[Conservative]

So, the budget does NOT contain an increase of $111 billion in the cost of Obamacare?

Not an increase over what we thought it would cost. The ten year price tag was ~$940 billion for the coverage provisions. That's pretty much where we're at right now. The ten-year budget window has obviously shifted back by two years from the original score but the FY13 budget request from the White House that has so upset you is in line with the CBO's estimates for the costs over the new period.

The $111 billion in "new" spending is an illusion that rightwing has chosen to entertain itself with this week. Nothing has actually changed.

The White House admitted it.

NEXT.

 

[Conservative]

Last year’s budget estimated the cost of the aid to be $367 billion from 2014-2011. This year’s budget puts it at $478 billion over the same time period.

Last time I checked math, 478-367=111

 

[Listening]

I'm not trying to dispel your obviously deep-seated suspicion that the world is out to fool you. I'm simply pointing out that the premise (and title) of this thread is incorrect.
.

tell that to the White House.

Correct.

If we followed that reasoning, it would mean that we could use any highball number as a comparison in order to make things look good.

The bigger question is what else has changed ?

I don't recall the overall budget being lower than projected. So what went off budget ?

The overall budget just went up 111 Billion. End of story.

Obamaworshippers just can't get past themselves.

 

[Greenbeard]

I'm not trying to dispel your obviously deep-seated suspicion that the world is out to fool you. I'm simply pointing out that the premise (and title) of this thread is incorrect.
.

tell that to the White House.

You don't strike me as a dumb person so I assume you're purposefully choosing to misunderstand what I've been saying. Rather clearly, multiple times, I might add. But I'll make it as simple as I can:

Advertised cost of the coverage provisions = Price tag of the exchange subsidies = the official 2010 CBO score (and the revised 2011 estimate in the new budget window)

FY13 - FY12 White House Budget Request = Your $111 billion discrepancy

FY13 White House Budget Request ~= CBO score (i.e. advertised price tag)

At no point have we gone above the advertised price tag. The law is no more expensive this week than it was last week.

I've already stated, multiple times, that the FY12/13 discrepancy is something Treasury has to answer for. In fact, I've already flatly said I think they fucked up in a manner that will be embarrassing to them. So save it.

 

[Conservative]

Administration officials say the explanation lies in budget technicalities

Why would the White House say the $111 billion increase was due to 'budget technicalities', if there WERE no $111 billion increase?

Were they... lying???

 

[Greenbeard]

Administration officials say the explanation lies in budget technicalities

Why would the White House say the $111 billion increase was due to 'budget technicalities', if there WERE no $111 billion increase?

Were they... lying???

It's almost as if I've already expressed my opinion on that in post #146.

 

[Listening]

I'm not trying to dispel your obviously deep-seated suspicion that the world is out to fool you. I'm simply pointing out that the premise (and title) of this thread is incorrect.
.

tell that to the White House.

You don't strike me as a dumb person so I assume you're purposefully choosing to misunderstand what I've been saying. Rather clearly, multiple times, I might add. But I'll make it as simple as I can:

Advertised cost of the coverage provisions = Price tag of the exchange subsidies = the official 2010 CBO score (and the revised 2011 estimate in the new budget window)

FY13 - FY12 White House Budget Request = Your $111 billion discrepancy

FY13 White House Budget Request ~= CBO score (i.e. advertised price tag)

At no point have we gone above the advertised price tag. The law is no more expensive this week than it was last week.

I've already stated, multiple times, that the FY12/13 discrepancy is something Treasury has to answer for. In fact, I've already flatly said I think they fucked up in a manner that will be embarrassing to them. So save it.

So when updated information does not look good, you go back to the older stuff.

I get it.

Nobody cares about the advertised price. It was a lie to begin with. And they have not shaved tens of billions off of it since then. In fact, as near as I can tell the total cost has only headed in one direction.

 

[FireFly]

Testimony to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Oversight and Government Reform

Wasteful Government Spending Apart from Fraud and Abuse. A thorough examination of healthcare waste released in 2009 by Thomson Reuters determined that between $600 billion and $850 billion of healthcare spending annually is wasted. While the study found $125 billion to $175 billion of this is attributed purely to fraud, the remainder is made up of administrative waste, provider errors, and other costs associated with unnecessary and duplicative diagnostic testing.

This fraud has grown over 30% since Obamacare passed. This alone will bankrupt the country.

 

[Salt Jones]

Lawmaker Wants Answers After Cost Estimate For Health Insurance Aid Rises By $111B | Fox News

Cost estimates for a key part of President Obama's health care overhaul law have ballooned by $111 billion from last year's budget, and a senior Republican lawmaker on Friday demanded an explanation.

House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich., wants to know by Monday why the estimated ten-year cost of helping millions of middle-class Americans buy health insurance has jumped by about 30 percent.

So do I.

The revised numbers, buried deep in the president's budget, stumped lawmakers and some administration officials for most of the week. At a congressional hearing Tuesday, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, who is in charge of carrying out the health care law, indicated she was unaware of the changes.

Yeah. Can't imagine why they were buried in that deep, huh.

About two-thirds of the increase is due to effects of newly signed legislation that raises costs for one part of the health care law, but still saves the government money overall. The rest is due to technical changes in Treasury assumptions about such matters as the distribution of income in America.

I find this difficult to believe, based on the track record of this administration.

Why does this thread exist? I thought you right wing asshats swore that the Supreme Court was going to rule the law unconstitutional, so why whine about the cost?

Hahahaha.