Obamacare welfare (subsidies) will be given without verification of need!

[TakeAStepBack]

Well, I for one am shocked.

 

[LoneLaugher]

From the link:

In addition, lying on the exchange form carries with it a penalty of as much as $25,000. An individual who fibbed on his income would also have to pay back the extra subsidies when filing a tax return for 2014.

 

[Freewill]

Allow me:

Health insurance marketplaces will not be required to verify consumer claims - The Washington Post

This is nothing but Democrat vote-buying.

First, they delay the provisions that would hurt people the most until after the mid-terms...then this bullshit.

Obama really does believe he's above the law.

How does delaying the mandates for businesses and not the individual mandates help people? Now companies can just cut people off and let them fend for themselves, as did my company and their retirees.

 

[Flopper]

Gramps,

As a small business owner, this law is probably going to benefit you.

Do you have health insurance, by the way?

Here is a nice article written by someone in your area. See if you can believe any of it.


Obamacare is good for small business / LJWorld.com

This thread isn't about the affect of O care on me or my business. It is about how yet again another gov't program is MASSIVELY inefficient and will be susceptible to mass fraud.

But thanks for your concern.

I'm a little confused. Are talking about the tax credits to help pay the healthcare premiums as specified in the ACA or a welfare programs.

 

[Oddball]

Gramps,

As a small business owner, this law is probably going to benefit you.

Do you have health insurance, by the way?

Here is a nice article written by someone in your area. See if you can believe any of it.


Obamacare is good for small business / LJWorld.com

This thread isn't about the affect of O care on me or my business. It is about how yet again another gov't program is MASSIVELY inefficient and will be susceptible to mass fraud.

But thanks for your concern.

I'm a little confused. Are talking about the tax credits to help pay the healthcare premiums as specified in the ACA or a welfare programs.

No....People can walk into the exchanges and just lie about their finances to get the handout.

But lolberals like you see that as a beneficial feature of the the socialistic welfare state, so it's all good.

 

[Trajan]

the law for the mandate and its postponement is examined here by Cato, its the least partisan blurb I could find *shrugs*-

Has Congress given Treasury the authority to waive the reporting requirement? Again, the answer is no.

The PPACA added two sections to the Internal Revenue Code (sections 6055 & 6056) that require employers to report certain information on their health benefits and the workers who enroll in that coverage, in order to help the IRS determine whether those workers are eligible for tax credits and whether the employer is subject to penalties. Again, the statute is clear: those reporting requirements take effect in “calendar years beginning after 2013” and “periods beginning after December 31, 2013.” The statute contains no language authorizing Treasury to waive those requirements.

Bagley argues the statute does contain language that might enable Treasury to delay the imposition of these reporting requirements. Sections 6055 & 6056 state that employers must furnish this information “at such time as the Secretary may prescribe.” He writes, “Delaying the reporting requirements until 2015 is arguably just a specification of the ‘time’ at which the reports must be submitted.”

This theory reflects a misunderstanding of what an effective date is. When Congress imposes an obligation on some party, that obligation becomes effective on the effective date. The secretary’s discretion to prescribe the time at which the affected party must discharge that obligation neither affects the existence of the obligation, nor empowers the secretary to repeal it.

One might argue that Treasury has the authority to say employers need not report the required information regarding their 2014 health benefits offerings until, say, the next year, when they report the same information for their 2015 offerings. Yet that is not what Treasury is doing. Treasury claims it can altogether eliminate the obligation to report the 2014 information: “The Administration…will provide an additional year before the ACA mandatory employer and insurer reporting requirements begin.”

Moreover, if the language Bagley cites were interpreted to permit Treasury to waive the mandate and reporting requirements for 2014, is there any reason why that interpretation would not empower Treasury waive those provisions indefinitely? Could the secretary determine employers need discharge these obligations every 1,000 years? If not, why not?

Yes, Delaying Obamacare?s Employer Mandate Is Illegal | Cato @ Liberty



as to the reporting requirements justifying the subsidy, this is to put it lightly, problematic-



HHS now says it will no longer attempt to verify individual eligibility for insurance subsidies and instead will rely on self-reporting, with minimal efforts to verify if the information consumers provide is accurate. …People are supposed to receive subsidies only if their employer does not provide federally approved health benefits. Since HHS now won’t require business to report those benefits or enforce the standards until 2015, it says it can’t ask ObamaCare’s “exchange” bureaucracies to certify who qualifies either. …In other words, anyone can receive subsidies tied to income without judging the income they declare against the income data the Internal Revenue Service collects.






People will do what they do, I think we all know, looking at the governments 'help' ala folks who wound up using 'liar' ( NO Doc) loans to put themselves in houses they had no serious hope of affording after the initial lock in rate expired, the moral hazard being introduced here is basically the same. Who here thinks they will even attempt to chase or even investigate folks there after?

They will by October this year, 'the date' that this was due to start, have had 4.5 years to set this up...It appears now, that Max Baucus, the first to employ the "Train-wreck" analogy may have, pardon the pun, been on the right track....

 

[Moonglow]

You still have to fill out paper work and qualify for any form of welfare.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Allow me:

Health insurance marketplaces will not be required to verify consumer claims - The Washington Post

This is nothing but Democrat vote-buying.

First, they delay the provisions that would hurt people the most until after the mid-terms...then this bullshit.

Obama really does believe he's above the law.

Thank you for providing that link. I would never have guessed that this is what the fuck Grampa was talking about.

As for the substance, this is yet more evidence of the complete and total inefficacy of ObamaCare.

And, yes, this is vote buying. Sure as shit. Obama just abnegated the employer mandate requirement in order to get Democrats through the 2014 elections, and now he is allowing "stated income" subsidies! HOLY FUCK!!!

Too bad this actual legitimate problem will be overwhelmed by the noise about the cost of hotels during an African foreign policy trip and other such stupid bullshit, though.

I have been out of the loop for a couple weeks now because of work. I catch tidbits on the news here or there at lunch if the restaurant has a tv to view. Iaassumed this was fairly old news and just wanted to post my thoughts on it without wasting time looking for links I figured everyone had already seen.
Forgive me for forgetting no one knows how to use Google

 

[Doubletap]

"need" does not constitute a claim to the earnings of others.

 

[Flopper]

Allow me:

Health insurance marketplaces will not be required to verify consumer claims - The Washington Post

This is nothing but Democrat vote-buying.

First, they delay the provisions that would hurt people the most until after the mid-terms...then this bullshit.

Obama really does believe he's above the law.

How does delaying the mandates for businesses and not the individual mandates help people? Now companies can just cut people off and let them fend for themselves, as did my company and their retirees.

Employees would be slightly better off, than they would if the employer cut the plan today because they would be able to purchase their insurance on the exchanges with no penalty for pre-existing conditions plus many would qualify for the tax credit to be applied to the cost of the policy. Some employees would actually benefit. In some cases premiums would be lower and the insurance wouldn't be tied to the job. Employees could change plans or companies at their choosing not their employer.

If the employer was already considering dropping health insurance, the delay could swing the decision in that direction. However, if they dropped their group insurance, the company would be subject to a $2,000/employee/yr fee starting in 2015. The number one reason why employers offer health insurance is to attract and retain quality employees so there is much more to the decision than just cost savings in 2014.

I think that there is good chance that we will see most group health insurance disappear with the next ten years. In the long run, I think this would benefit both employees and employer.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

Look up. I was responding to a post.

Your hard-on for me is unbecoming. Try reading your own threads.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

Look up. I was responding to a post.

Your hard-on for me is unbecoming. Try reading your own threads.

Every post is "up" above yours. Am I just supposed to guess who, if anyone, you were responding to? The quote function too complicated for you?

 

[Rozman]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

So people who build a business didn't build it?...
The commons made it all possible....
Hmmmm.
Who built the commons?
Why it was government....
But where did they get the money to build it?
From taxes from the people who built and own the business that they didn't build!!!!

Geez....

This bullshit again....

Government is responsible for the business that people build.

 

[LoneLaugher]

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

Look up. I was responding to a post.

Your hard-on for me is unbecoming. Try reading your own threads.

Every post is "up" above yours. Am I just supposed to guess who, if anyone, you were responding to? The quote function too complicated for you?

Hmmmm, let's see. You whine for a year to get honest discussion. I oblige and you can do nothing but lob insults. Have you ever responded to a post without using the quote function? If yes, please rethink your latest assault. If no, why are you lying?

Still looking for that troll-free conversation?

 

[daveman]

Allow me:

Health insurance marketplaces will not be required to verify consumer claims - The Washington Post

This is nothing but Democrat vote-buying.

First, they delay the provisions that would hurt people the most until after the mid-terms...then this bullshit.

Obama really does believe he's above the law.

How does delaying the mandates for businesses and not the individual mandates help people? Now companies can just cut people off and let them fend for themselves, as did my company and their retirees.

You're right; I was wrong about that part.

The no-verification for subsidy is pure vote-buying, however.

All this amply demonstrates that Obamacare is a huge, steaming pile of unworkable crap that needs to be buried at midnight with a stake through its heart.

 

[daveman]

You still have to fill out paper work and qualify for any form of welfare.

But if you apply for the Obamacare subsidy, they don't check your paperwork. You could write that your annual income is $14.72, and they'll approve you -- even if you actually make $142,700.

 

[daveman]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

How 'bout if I quit work and YOU pay my share?

 

[daveman]

Please.....just stop with the whining about your fucking "earnings". The commons make it possible for you to earn anything at all. Pay your share and shut up.

What the fuck are you babbling about? And who the hell are you talking to?

No wonder expecting others to use Google was a dumb expectation.

So people who build a business didn't build it?...
The commons made it all possible....
Hmmmm.
Who built the commons?
Why it was government....
But where did they get the money to build it?
From taxes from the people who built and own the business that they didn't build!!!!

Geez....

This bullshit again....

Government is responsible for the business that people build.

The Government's Prayer

Our Government in D.C.,
Hallowed be thy name.
Thy nanny state come
Thy mandate be done
On flyover country as it is in the coasts.
Give us this month our monthly check,
And audit us our trespasses,
As we file suit against those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into liberty,
But deliver us from ourselves.
For thine is the oligarchy,
And the power, and the glory,
Forever and ever.
Amen.