Obamas "Jobs Bill" is DOA as it should be!!!!!!! Unfu***** believeable

[Full-Auto]

There is no comparison. Medicare per capita expenditures are significantly lower than the private sector. I would have universal health care in this country. Every industrial nation has done so successfully and more cost effectively than our corporate cartel wealth care system. The World Health Report 2000: The United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy. Comparisons also reveal that the United States is falling farther behind each year.

Obfuscation...
We're discussing government run socialized medicine or universal health insurance or "single payer"
Your assertion that socialized medicine is a success is patently false. Every western European nation struggles with it. Medical care is rationed. It is a captive system. It is illegal for people to seek medical care from outside the government mandated system.
How you or anyone else can think our federal government which cannot do anything on time ,within budget and free of mega layers of bureaucracy can somehow magically transform itself into the world's largest and most successful health care provider in their world is a baffling mystery.
All those statistical talking points are tripe. They in no way make up the gargantuan task of providing free from out of pocket on demand medical care you people think will be available.
Obama talked at no end about "cutting cost" and "efficiencies".
This new law can control price but cannot control costs. Obama and the democrats are convinced that by offering the illusion of lowering price ot the consumer everything will work out. Meanwhile the sinister aspect is, most if not all medical professionals will see their reimbursements slashed. As there will be nowhere else to go and pay as you go outlawed, the cost of becoming a doctor and then maintaining malpractice insurance will make the medical field most unattractive. This has been repeated all over Europe. A massive shortage of doctors is occurring.
Also as money for research and new equipment falls under the clutches of government, money will become scarce.
Obaamcare also essentially puts private insurance out of business. Employers will drop their insurance coverage for their employees. That is the goal of Obamacare.
ONly those who pay little or no taxes and those who think the government owes them something want Obamacare. They have no idea for what it is they wish.
I have all confidence smarter people will prevail and this Obamacare nonsense will be settled once and for all.
We all know Obamacare will not survive intact. Parts will be repealed. Other will be de-funded. It's inevitable.

FACTS are obfuscation...??? WOW! I provide FACTS and you emote dogma, fear and well funded propaganda.

FACT: The U.S. currently pays a higher percentage of health dollars for administration than any other nation.

FACT: The U.S. ranks highest in total cost of care. According to a recent report by the Commonwealth Fund, the U.S. ranks last among industrialized countries "in preventing deaths through use of timely and effective medical care."

FACT: Private 'for profit' insurance cartels have administration expenses of 20 - 30%.

FACT: Medicare, a government-run program has administrative expenses that are 3%.

There is NO WAY private insurance can compete with the efficiency of a government-run program i.e. Medicare. So take your emotes and your fear based dogma, and stuff it.

You are spewing well funded corporate propaganda. You really need to educate yourself...

Start HERE

The highest cost, and still people come from around the world for the best care.

You were going to mention that tidbit too?

 

[Bfgrn]

Obfuscation...
We're discussing government run socialized medicine or universal health insurance or "single payer"
Your assertion that socialized medicine is a success is patently false. Every western European nation struggles with it. Medical care is rationed. It is a captive system. It is illegal for people to seek medical care from outside the government mandated system.
How you or anyone else can think our federal government which cannot do anything on time ,within budget and free of mega layers of bureaucracy can somehow magically transform itself into the world's largest and most successful health care provider in their world is a baffling mystery.
All those statistical talking points are tripe. They in no way make up the gargantuan task of providing free from out of pocket on demand medical care you people think will be available.
Obama talked at no end about "cutting cost" and "efficiencies".
This new law can control price but cannot control costs. Obama and the democrats are convinced that by offering the illusion of lowering price ot the consumer everything will work out. Meanwhile the sinister aspect is, most if not all medical professionals will see their reimbursements slashed. As there will be nowhere else to go and pay as you go outlawed, the cost of becoming a doctor and then maintaining malpractice insurance will make the medical field most unattractive. This has been repeated all over Europe. A massive shortage of doctors is occurring.
Also as money for research and new equipment falls under the clutches of government, money will become scarce.
Obaamcare also essentially puts private insurance out of business. Employers will drop their insurance coverage for their employees. That is the goal of Obamacare.
ONly those who pay little or no taxes and those who think the government owes them something want Obamacare. They have no idea for what it is they wish.
I have all confidence smarter people will prevail and this Obamacare nonsense will be settled once and for all.
We all know Obamacare will not survive intact. Parts will be repealed. Other will be de-funded. It's inevitable.

FACTS are obfuscation...??? WOW! I provide FACTS and you emote dogma, fear and well funded propaganda.

FACT: The U.S. currently pays a higher percentage of health dollars for administration than any other nation.

FACT: The U.S. ranks highest in total cost of care. According to a recent report by the Commonwealth Fund, the U.S. ranks last among industrialized countries "in preventing deaths through use of timely and effective medical care."

FACT: Private 'for profit' insurance cartels have administration expenses of 20 - 30%.

FACT: Medicare, a government-run program has administrative expenses that are 3%.

There is NO WAY private insurance can compete with the efficiency of a government-run program i.e. Medicare. So take your emotes and your fear based dogma, and stuff it.

You are spewing well funded corporate propaganda. You really need to educate yourself...

Start HERE

The highest cost, and still people come from around the world for the best care.

You were going to mention that tidbit too?

THAT is not the problem. We have more people who are uninsured in this country than the entire population of Canada. And that if you include the people who are under-insured, more people than in the United Kingdom. We have huge numbers of people who are also just a lay-off away from joining the ranks of the uninsured, or being purged by their insurance company, and winding up there.

But, Yes, SOME, not all, of of the best medical facilities are in this country. Like John Hopkins Medical Center...Here is William Brody, an American radiologist and academic administrator. He is the President of the Salk Institute and former President of The Johns Hopkins University, a position which he had held from 1996 to 2009.

Is Medicare Cost Effective?

2003

I recently spent a half-day in a meeting discussing a number of issues regarding Medicare. Most of us on the provider side of the street view Medicare as this multiheaded bureaucracy with more pages of regulations than the Internal Revenue Service's tax code. However, I came away from the meeting with some (to me at least) shocking revelations:

* Medicare beneficiaries are overwhelmingly satisfied with their Medicare coverage, except for the absence of prescription drug benefits;

* The administrative costs of Medicare are lower than any other large health plan.

In fact, Medicare is very efficient by any objective means:

According to the Urban Institute's Marilyn Moon, who testified before the Senate Committee on Aging, Medicare expenditures between 1970 and 2000 grew more slowly than those of the private sector. Initially, from 1965 through the 1980s, Medicare and private insurance costs doubled in tandem. Then Medicare tightened up, and per capita expenditures grew more slowly than private insurance, creating a significant gap. In the 1990s, private insurers got more serious about controlling their costs, and the gap narrowed. But by 2000, Medicare per capita expenditures remained significantly lower than the private sector.

* The average income of Medicare beneficiaries is closer to the poverty line than many of us working folks would like to believe: According to government statistics Moon cites, more than 90 percent of retirees covered by Medicare earn less than $32,000 per year for individuals or $40,000 for couples. In 2003, Medicare beneficiaries will spend an average of 23 percent of their income on health care!

Moon argues somewhat convincingly that Medicare has been a success. While not necessarily denying that certain reforms might be needed, she stresses the importance of preserving three essential tenets of the program:

1. Its universal coverage nature creates the ability to redistribute benefits to those who are neediest.

2. It pools risk in order to share the burdens of health care among the healthy and the sick.

3. Through Medicare, the government protects the rights of all beneficiaries to essential health care.

It has been argued that, in part, Medicare's cost effectiveness arises from the fact that it does not need to expend funds on marketing and sales-functions that are obligatory for the success of competitive, private-sector health plans. Moreover, some argue that the competitive model for health insurance has not been successful. In a market-driven economy, the healthy can and will change health plans for savings of only a few dollars a month, while the sick must remain in their existing plan in order to retain their physicians. Such behaviors lead to asymmetric risk pools and cost inequities.

This was all sobering news to a market-driven entrepreneur such as yours truly. However, given the perverse incentives that frequently drive behavior in health care, my take-home lesson is that there are examples in the success of Medicare we can apply to other sectors of our population.

William Ralph Brody

Is Medicare Cost Effective?

 

[freedombecki]

The Obama Jobs proposal is 447 billion ways to tax small businesses. They said so on Fox Business News this morning.

 

[Full-Auto]

FACTS are obfuscation...??? WOW! I provide FACTS and you emote dogma, fear and well funded propaganda.

FACT: The U.S. currently pays a higher percentage of health dollars for administration than any other nation.

FACT: The U.S. ranks highest in total cost of care. According to a recent report by the Commonwealth Fund, the U.S. ranks last among industrialized countries "in preventing deaths through use of timely and effective medical care."

FACT: Private 'for profit' insurance cartels have administration expenses of 20 - 30%.

FACT: Medicare, a government-run program has administrative expenses that are 3%.

There is NO WAY private insurance can compete with the efficiency of a government-run program i.e. Medicare. So take your emotes and your fear based dogma, and stuff it.

You are spewing well funded corporate propaganda. You really need to educate yourself...

Start HERE

The highest cost, and still people come from around the world for the best care.

You were going to mention that tidbit too?

THAT is not the problem. We have more people who are uninsured in this country than the entire population of Canada. And that if you include the people who are under-insured, more people than in the United Kingdom. We have huge numbers of people who are also just a lay-off away from joining the ranks of the uninsured, or being purged by their insurance company, and winding up there.

But, Yes, SOME, not all, of of the best medical facilities are in this country. Like John Hopkins Medical Center...Here is William Brody, an American radiologist and academic administrator. He is the President of the Salk Institute and former President of The Johns Hopkins University, a position which he had held from 1996 to 2009.

Is Medicare Cost Effective?

2003

I recently spent a half-day in a meeting discussing a number of issues regarding Medicare. Most of us on the provider side of the street view Medicare as this multiheaded bureaucracy with more pages of regulations than the Internal Revenue Service's tax code. However, I came away from the meeting with some (to me at least) shocking revelations:

* Medicare beneficiaries are overwhelmingly satisfied with their Medicare coverage, except for the absence of prescription drug benefits;

* The administrative costs of Medicare are lower than any other large health plan.

In fact, Medicare is very efficient by any objective means:

According to the Urban Institute's Marilyn Moon, who testified before the Senate Committee on Aging, Medicare expenditures between 1970 and 2000 grew more slowly than those of the private sector. Initially, from 1965 through the 1980s, Medicare and private insurance costs doubled in tandem. Then Medicare tightened up, and per capita expenditures grew more slowly than private insurance, creating a significant gap. In the 1990s, private insurers got more serious about controlling their costs, and the gap narrowed. But by 2000, Medicare per capita expenditures remained significantly lower than the private sector.

* The average income of Medicare beneficiaries is closer to the poverty line than many of us working folks would like to believe: According to government statistics Moon cites, more than 90 percent of retirees covered by Medicare earn less than $32,000 per year for individuals or $40,000 for couples. In 2003, Medicare beneficiaries will spend an average of 23 percent of their income on health care!

Moon argues somewhat convincingly that Medicare has been a success. While not necessarily denying that certain reforms might be needed, she stresses the importance of preserving three essential tenets of the program:

1. Its universal coverage nature creates the ability to redistribute benefits to those who are neediest.


2. It pools risk in order to share the burdens of health care among the healthy and the sick.

3. Through Medicare, the government protects the rights of all beneficiaries to essential health care.

It has been argued that, in part, Medicare's cost effectiveness arises from the fact that it does not need to expend funds on marketing and sales-functions that are obligatory for the success of competitive, private-sector health plans. Moreover, some argue that the competitive model for health insurance has not been successful. In a market-driven economy, the healthy can and will change health plans for savings of only a few dollars a month, while the sick must remain in their existing plan in order to retain their physicians. Such behaviors lead to asymmetric risk pools and cost inequities.

This was all sobering news to a market-driven entrepreneur such as yours truly. However, given the perverse incentives that frequently drive behavior in health care, my take-home lesson is that there are examples in the success of Medicare we can apply to other sectors of our population.

William Ralph Brody

Is Medicare Cost Effective?

Excellent reply Thank you..............................

 

[freedombecki]

Apparently, the Obamabot jobs plan is to tax small businesses everytime they do hiring, to finance their grandiose redistributions of wealth.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Obama Jobs proposal is 447 billion ways to tax small businesses. They said so on Fox Business News this morning.

I heard Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries say the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

 

[saveliberty]

The Obama Jobs proposal is 447 billion ways to tax small businesses. They said so on Fox Business News this morning.

I heard Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries say the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

Didn't see the hook did you fish?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Healthcare, Fox News, imaginary broken bridges.

Anything else you all want to discuss in order to avoid the fact that this Bill is yet another failure?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Healthcare, Fox News, imaginary broken bridges.

Anything else you all want to discuss in order to avoid the fact that this Bill is yet another failure?

Kind of reminds me of this shining obama moment
Doctors Choose Amputation Because Surgeons Get Paid More Than Physicians
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8]Obama: Doctors Choose Amputation Because Surgeons Get Paid More Than Physicians - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Bfgrn]

Healthcare, Fox News, imaginary broken bridges.

Anything else you all want to discuss in order to avoid the fact that this Bill is yet another failure?

Yea, let's discuss the health care bill. It is not a failure. The failure was from the Republicans who lied and deceived the public when all along their ONLY mission was to destroy reform and try to destroy our President. That my friend is terrorism.

 

[saveliberty]

The whole plan rests on everyone having to have insurance. The Supreme Court will strike provision down soon. Then what you going to do.

 

[Bfgrn]

The whole plan rests on everyone having to have insurance. The Supreme Court will strike provision down soon. Then what you going to do.

If the Supreme Court strikes down the Individual Mandate, a Republican/Heritage Foundation idea, then a public option or single payer will be necessary. That would be a GREAT thing, so I hope the right wing robes strike it down...

 

[freedombecki]

The Obama Jobs proposal is 447 billion ways to tax small businesses. They said so on Fox Business News this morning.

I heard Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries say the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

Oh, did you now? Do you believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11, too, denying the official story?

"nenonenonenonenonenoneno" - Official Twilight Zone background music.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Obama Jobs proposal is 447 billion ways to tax small businesses. They said so on Fox Business News this morning.

I heard Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries say the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

Oh, did you now? Do you believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11, too, denying the official story?

"nenonenonenonenonenoneno" - Official Twilight Zone background music.

No, I don't believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11. But I didn't need him to tell me that Fox News is pure right wing propaganda...you right wing parrots squawk it every day. It is based on know nothingism.

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

 

[freedombecki]

I heard Ray McGovern, a retired CIA agent whose expertise was the old Soviet Union and the Eastern Bloc countries say the propaganda coming out of Fox News is at the same level as Pravda. But I suspect most Russians knew Pravda was propaganda.

Oh, did you now? Do you believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11, too, denying the official story?

"nenonenonenonenonenoneno" - Official Twilight Zone background music.

No, I don't believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11. But I didn't need him to tell me that Fox News is pure right wing propaganda...you right wing parrots squawk it every day. It is based on know nothingism.

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Fact-based news is now referred to as "know-nothingism," while shrillshill, edu-hyperbolic leftstream media gets a free out of jail card?

Whatever.

 

[Bfgrn]

Oh, did you now? Do you believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11, too, denying the official story?

"nenonenonenonenonenoneno" - Official Twilight Zone background music.

No, I don't believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11. But I didn't need him to tell me that Fox News is pure right wing propaganda...you right wing parrots squawk it every day. It is based on know nothingism.

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Fact-based news is now referred to as "know-nothingism," while shrillshill, edu-hyperbolic leftstream media gets a free out of jail card?

Whatever.

Well, here is what we can do. You and I will debate the topics, you can parrot your faux news propaganda, and I will provide the facts. I will hand you your head each and every time. I suggest as soon as you hear the propaganda on faux you keep repeating it over, and over and over again, because parrots don't think, they mimic.

 

[Charles_Main]

How can this Bill be dead on Arrival, when from what I can see, it hasn't even arrived yet. I saw the pomp and circumstance at the speech, I saw the Pomp and Circumstance in the Rose garden, But where the hell is the bill.

What a Joke.

 

[saveliberty]

How can this Bill be dead on Arrival, when from what I can see, it hasn't even arrived yet. I saw the pomp and circumstance at the speech, I saw the Pomp and Circumstance in the Rose garden, But where the hell is the bill.

What a Joke.

It was posted somewhere on USMB. As of last inquiry, it was found at a White House site. This leads me to believe it has not become a "bill" yet.

 

[daveman]

No, I don't believe his conspiracy theories about 9/11. But I didn't need him to tell me that Fox News is pure right wing propaganda...you right wing parrots squawk it every day. It is based on know nothingism.

"Eighty percent of Republicans are just Democrats that don't know what's going on"
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Fact-based news is now referred to as "know-nothingism," while shrillshill, edu-hyperbolic leftstream media gets a free out of jail card?

Whatever.

Well, here is what we can do. You and I will debate the topics, you can parrot your faux news propaganda, and I will provide the facts. I will hand you your head each and every time. I suggest as soon as you hear the propaganda on faux you keep repeating it over, and over and over again, because parrots don't think, they mimic.

I've seen what you use instead of facts.

Funny thing is, I've seen them all elsewhere. Why do you pretend you present original material, parrot?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The "bill" has to be formally introduced before consideration or debate can begin.

ANY DEMOCRAT can introduce the legislation to be considered.

IF THE BILL IS SO DAMN IMPORTANT WHY HASN'T A DEMOCRAT INTRODUCED IT?