Obamas "Jobs Bill" is DOA as it should be!!!!!!! Unfu***** believeable

[bigrebnc1775]

You don't need to be a internet detective to find the Bill...

The White House


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy

Ahhh, the bill's at the White House.

Say, did you watch the Schoolhouse Rock video? I believe it says that only members of Congress can introduce bills. Is the White House a member of Congress?

Has anyone read that bill? Lot of repeals and shit in it. and why is it that any tax hikes will start in deecember 31 2012. Doesn't the economy need something now?

 

[thereisnospoon]

There is no comparison. Medicare per capita expenditures are significantly lower than the private sector. I would have universal health care in this country. Every industrial nation has done so successfully and more cost effectively than our corporate cartel wealth care system. The World Health Report 2000: The United States was number 1 in terms of health care spending per capita but ranked 39th for infant mortality, 43rd for adult female mortality, 42nd for adult male mortality, and 36th for life expectancy. Comparisons also reveal that the United States is falling farther behind each year.

Obfuscation...
We're discussing government run socialized medicine or universal health insurance or "single payer"
Your assertion that socialized medicine is a success is patently false. Every western European nation struggles with it. Medical care is rationed. It is a captive system. It is illegal for people to seek medical care from outside the government mandated system.
How you or anyone else can think our federal government which cannot do anything on time ,within budget and free of mega layers of bureaucracy can somehow magically transform itself into the world's largest and most successful health care provider in their world is a baffling mystery.
All those statistical talking points are tripe. They in no way make up the gargantuan task of providing free from out of pocket on demand medical care you people think will be available.
Obama talked at no end about "cutting cost" and "efficiencies".
This new law can control price but cannot control costs. Obama and the democrats are convinced that by offering the illusion of lowering price ot the consumer everything will work out. Meanwhile the sinister aspect is, most if not all medical professionals will see their reimbursements slashed. As there will be nowhere else to go and pay as you go outlawed, the cost of becoming a doctor and then maintaining malpractice insurance will make the medical field most unattractive. This has been repeated all over Europe. A massive shortage of doctors is occurring.
Also as money for research and new equipment falls under the clutches of government, money will become scarce.
Obaamcare also essentially puts private insurance out of business. Employers will drop their insurance coverage for their employees. That is the goal of Obamacare.
ONly those who pay little or no taxes and those who think the government owes them something want Obamacare. They have no idea for what it is they wish.
I have all confidence smarter people will prevail and this Obamacare nonsense will be settled once and for all.
We all know Obamacare will not survive intact. Parts will be repealed. Other will be de-funded. It's inevitable.

Your assertion that socialized medicine is a success is patently false. Every western European nation struggles with it. Medical care is rationed. It is a captive system. It is illegal for people to seek medical care from outside the government mandated system.

That is incorrect.
We have a socialised medical system.
There is also a private system that sits alongside.
Sometimes the national system uses the private system, when this is sensible.
About 32% of people also have private insurance although this is a choice, not a requirement.

32%...Link?
So tell me....how successful is socialized medicine in Western Europe?
Apparently you are not familiar with the definition of "socialized medicine"...Do you know what that definition might be?
Obamacare essentially puts private health insurance out of business.
Fact......All employers of over 50 people can pay an 8% payroll tax to the federal government should they drop coverage for their employees. Such a low percentage penalty is low by design. Employers will look at their insurance costs and decide to let their employees know that the government exchange is where they need to go.
With so few people to insure, private insurers will stop writing health coverage because those firms will not be able to compete with the government plan.
Now, those couples earning less than about $62k per year will be subsidized. Those earning over that amount will be taxed at 18% of their gross income to pay for the "free" government medical insurance.
In any event, Obamacare as it exists will not survive. That's a given.
Done.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How can this Bill be dead on Arrival, when from what I can see, it hasn't even arrived yet. I saw the pomp and circumstance at the speech, I saw the Pomp and Circumstance in the Rose garden, But where the hell is the bill.

What a Joke.

I heard Obama on the radio, shrieking, "What is Congress waiting for?" and thought, "Maybe they're waiting for you to actually find a sponsor for this turkey."

 

[Foxfyre]

You don't need to be a internet detective to find the Bill...

The White House


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy

Ahhh, the bill's at the White House.

Say, did you watch the Schoolhouse Rock video? I believe it says that only members of Congress can introduce bills. Is the White House a member of Congress?

Has anyone read that bill? Lot of repeals and shit in it. and why is it that any tax hikes will start in deecember 31 2012. Doesn't the economy need something now?

That's the MO of this administration. If it is BOUND to be unpopular when people find out what it will do to them--both the employers and the employees or anybody else with taxable income--they always have that part kick in AFTER the next election. Why else would the most onerous parts of Obamacare kick in after 2012? So the Annointed One could be re-elected of course.

Anybody with half a brain cell left should be able to do the math--tax hikes right away but unspecified spending cuts to be spread over the next ten years? Won't there be any need for any spending every year during that time? And who is responsible to see that the unspecified spending cuts are implemented once the current Congress and Fearless Leader leave office?

Has anybody figured out that trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see will continue to escalate the national debt even if they cut two trillion in spending to be spread over the next ten years?

They think we're freaking idiots!!! (Okay, they KNOW some of their devotee are idiots, but surely somebody in the media can add and subtract? Even multiply and divide a little bit?)

Let's say I owe $14 and earn $14 a year but I am spending $16 every year and am not paying anything on the debt I owe.

If there is no change in my income and expenses, In ten years I will have added $2 x 10 years to that $14 or I will then owe $34.

That puts me into bankruptcy and makes me a very poor credit risk. So, I need to do something about it, so I assure my creditors I will cut my expenses by $2.

$2 spread over 10 years = 20 cents a year reduction in spending. I am still increasing the debt by $1.80 each year x 10 years = $18.00. At the end of the ten years I will owe the original $14 plus $18 or $32.

Change each of those dollars into a trillion dollars which is an amount so huge a mortal human cannot even wrap his/her mind around it, and you can see the insanity of the plan they expect us to applaud and admire.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You don't need to be a internet detective to find the Bill...

The White House


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy

Ahhh, the bill's at the White House.

Say, did you watch the Schoolhouse Rock video? I believe it says that only members of Congress can introduce bills. Is the White House a member of Congress?

True, only members of Congress can INTRODUCE a bill. But the author does not have to be a member of Congress. Ask the lobbyists and corporate lawyers who authored bills for Republicans.

But until an actual member of Congress chooses to sponsor it, it's not a bill. It's just a wish list without any takers.

 

[Foxfyre]

How can this Bill be dead on Arrival, when from what I can see, it hasn't even arrived yet. I saw the pomp and circumstance at the speech, I saw the Pomp and Circumstance in the Rose garden, But where the hell is the bill.

What a Joke.

I heard Obama on the radio, shrieking, "What is Congress waiting for?" and thought, "Maybe they're waiting for you to actually find a sponsor for this turkey."

No, he's waiting for the maximum opportune time in which he will put on a mournful face, will sigh deeply, and lament how the eeeeeeeeevul Republicans stopped tax cuts for the working class, sidelined essential benefits for the needy, and kept the economy stalled.

 

[daveman]

You don't need to be a internet detective to find the Bill...

The White House


"We have all seen these circus elephants complete with tusks, ivory in their head and thick skins, who move around the circus ring and grab the tail of the elephant ahead of them."
President John F. Kennedy

Ahhh, the bill's at the White House.

Say, did you watch the Schoolhouse Rock video? I believe it says that only members of Congress can introduce bills. Is the White House a member of Congress?

Has anyone read that bill? Lot of repeals and shit in it. and why is it that any tax hikes will start in deecember 31 2012. Doesn't the economy need something now?

Apparently, Obama's chances are even worse than the economy.

 

[saveliberty]

No, Obama is just waiting until he is done with the sales road trip for this toad and his approval rating drops another 5 points.

 

[daveman]

How can this Bill be dead on Arrival, when from what I can see, it hasn't even arrived yet. I saw the pomp and circumstance at the speech, I saw the Pomp and Circumstance in the Rose garden, But where the hell is the bill.

What a Joke.

I heard Obama on the radio, shrieking, "What is Congress waiting for?" and thought, "Maybe they're waiting for you to actually find a sponsor for this turkey."

No, he's waiting for the maximum opportune time in which he will put on a mournful face, will sigh deeply, and lament how the eeeeeeeeevul Republicans stopped tax cuts for the working class, sidelined essential benefits for the needy, and kept the economy stalled.

And the Obamabots will eagerly suck it up and label all Republicans as domestic terrorist white supremacist jaywalkers.

 

[Bfgrn]

Or the ones for the democrats. Dont even pretend its one sided.

I don't have to pretend. It is pretty much one sided.

But, but, but...

THIS NEEDS TO BE PASSED RIGHT AWAY!!!

Why hasn't Weiner introduced it yet?

Stimulus II: Return of the Deficit Increases and No Private Sector Jobs

I'm waiting until its on DVD.

Stimulus I...

 

[Charles_Main]

Democrats hate the Idea of Eliminating the Charity Tax Deduction, as well they should be. Perhaps one of the Few Deductions that not only makes sense, but does a lot of good for the poor.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Ahhh, the bill's at the White House.

Say, did you watch the Schoolhouse Rock video? I believe it says that only members of Congress can introduce bills. Is the White House a member of Congress?

Has anyone read that bill? Lot of repeals and shit in it. and why is it that any tax hikes will start in deecember 31 2012. Doesn't the economy need something now?

That's the MO of this administration. If it is BOUND to be unpopular when people find out what it will do to them--both the employers and the employees or anybody else with taxable income--they always have that part kick in AFTER the next election. Why else would the most onerous parts of Obamacare kick in after 2012? So the Annointed One could be re-elected of course.

Anybody with half a brain cell left should be able to do the math--tax hikes right away but unspecified spending cuts to be spread over the next ten years? Won't there be any need for any spending every year during that time? And who is responsible to see that the unspecified spending cuts are implemented once the current Congress and Fearless Leader leave office?

Has anybody figured out that trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see will continue to escalate the national debt even if they cut two trillion in spending to be spread over the next ten years?

They think we're freaking idiots!!! (Okay, they KNOW some of their devotee are idiots, but surely somebody in the media can add and subtract? Even multiply and divide a little bit?)

Let's say I owe $14 and earn $14 a year but I am spending $16 every year and am not paying anything on the debt I owe.

If there is no change in my income and expenses, In ten years I will have added $2 x 10 years to that $14 or I will then owe $34.

That puts me into bankruptcy and makes me a very poor credit risk. So, I need to do something about it, so I assure my creditors I will cut my expenses by $2.

$2 spread over 10 years = 20 cents a year reduction in spending. I am still increasing the debt by $1.80 each year x 10 years = $18.00. At the end of the ten years I will owe the original $14 plus $18 or $32.

Change each of those dollars into a trillion dollars which is an amount so huge a mortal human cannot even wrap his/her mind around it, and you can see the insanity of the plan they expect us to applaud and admire.

Then the answer is "we will raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans"..."We will give tax breaks to small businesses who hire or offer other benefits to their current employees".
"Pass this Bill"....."Trust me!"
Face palm.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I don't have to pretend. It is pretty much one sided.

But, but, but...

THIS NEEDS TO BE PASSED RIGHT AWAY!!!

Why hasn't Weiner introduced it yet?

Stimulus II: Return of the Deficit Increases and No Private Sector Jobs

I'm waiting until its on DVD.

Stimulus I...

Think progress?...Get the fuck out of here!
Think Progress...Yeah, that bunch doesn't have an agenda..Sure.
Hey genius? I have a couple of questions.....If the table above is accurate, why then has the unemployment rate not fallen? Also, with all the people not working or working part time and thus not counted as "unemployed" has the official unemployment rate not fallen?
Both stimulus bill saved a few thousand government workers from being laid off immediately and a few scattered road projects. The rest of the money disappeared like a fart in the wind. And we're supposed to happily agree to another half trillion in mystery money because "while it didn't work last time....Just trust me, it WILL work THIS time!"....
What a bunch of bullshit.
I do like Obama's idea of giving small business some tax relief but there is no relief without Obama getting something on the back end. IN other words, there's a catch.

 

[The T]

But, but, but...

THIS NEEDS TO BE PASSED RIGHT AWAY!!!

Why hasn't Weiner introduced it yet?

Stimulus II: Return of the Deficit Increases and No Private Sector Jobs

I'm waiting until its on DVD.

Stimulus I...

Think progress?...Get the fuck out of here!
Think Progress...Yeah, that bunch doesn't have an agenda..Sure.
Hey genius? I have a couple of questions.....If the table above is accurate, why then has the unemployment rate not fallen? Also, with all the people not working or working part time and thus not counted as "unemployed" has the official unemployment rate not fallen?
Both stimulus bill saved a few thousand government workers from being laid off immediately and a few scattered road projects. The rest of the money disappeared like a fart in the wind. And we're supposed to happily agree to another half trillion in mystery money because "while it didn't work last time....Just trust me, it WILL work THIS time!"....
What a bunch of bullshit.
I do like Obama's idea of giving small business some tax relief but there is no relief without Obama getting something on the back end. IN other words, there's a catch.

With politicians? There always are strings attached. And those strings always favour government.

 

[Bfgrn]

But, but, but...

THIS NEEDS TO BE PASSED RIGHT AWAY!!!

Why hasn't Weiner introduced it yet?

Stimulus II: Return of the Deficit Increases and No Private Sector Jobs

I'm waiting until its on DVD.

Stimulus I...

Think progress?...Get the fuck out of here!
Think Progress...Yeah, that bunch doesn't have an agenda..Sure.
Hey genius? I have a couple of questions.....If the table above is accurate, why then has the unemployment rate not fallen? Also, with all the people not working or working part time and thus not counted as "unemployed" has the official unemployment rate not fallen?
Both stimulus bill saved a few thousand government workers from being laid off immediately and a few scattered road projects. The rest of the money disappeared like a fart in the wind. And we're supposed to happily agree to another half trillion in mystery money because "while it didn't work last time....Just trust me, it WILL work THIS time!"....
What a bunch of bullshit.
I do like Obama's idea of giving small business some tax relief but there is no relief without Obama getting something on the back end. IN other words, there's a catch.

The chart is from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

When the bill was signed in February 2009, GDP growth was almost unprecedentedly negative—down 9% in the previous quarter (2008q4). But as the figure reveals, the economy immediately between to contract less quickly, and growth turned positive by mid-2009. We see the same pattern in job growth, which also reversed course soon after passage, and broke zero—net job growth—in March of 2010 (the addition and subtraction of Census workers that year distort the picture somewhat, but they’re not included in the private sector data, which present a clearer view of what happened).

Unemployment always lags growth by at least six months, but a few months after ARRA kicked in, it stopped growing.

But that’s only half of what these simple graphs show. The other piece of information they yield is even more important. As the stimulus fades, the positive trends begin to falter: both GDP and job growth slow significantly, and unemployment stagnates at a highly elevated level.

The message of these three simple graphs is itself disarmingly simple: the stimulus worked. It prevented recession from becoming depression. It just ended too soon.

And that’s why the President’s new jobs agenda is so damn important.

The Impact of the Recovery Act, In a Few Easy Charts | On the Economy

 

[thereisnospoon]

Stimulus I...

Think progress?...Get the fuck out of here!
Think Progress...Yeah, that bunch doesn't have an agenda..Sure.
Hey genius? I have a couple of questions.....If the table above is accurate, why then has the unemployment rate not fallen? Also, with all the people not working or working part time and thus not counted as "unemployed" has the official unemployment rate not fallen?
Both stimulus bill saved a few thousand government workers from being laid off immediately and a few scattered road projects. The rest of the money disappeared like a fart in the wind. And we're supposed to happily agree to another half trillion in mystery money because "while it didn't work last time....Just trust me, it WILL work THIS time!"....
What a bunch of bullshit.
I do like Obama's idea of giving small business some tax relief but there is no relief without Obama getting something on the back end. IN other words, there's a catch.

The chart is from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

When the bill was signed in February 2009, GDP growth was almost unprecedentedly negative—down 9% in the previous quarter (2008q4). But as the figure reveals, the economy immediately between to contract less quickly, and growth turned positive by mid-2009. We see the same pattern in job growth, which also reversed course soon after passage, and broke zero—net job growth—in March of 2010 (the addition and subtraction of Census workers that year distort the picture somewhat, but they’re not included in the private sector data, which present a clearer view of what happened).

Unemployment always lags growth by at least six months, but a few months after ARRA kicked in, it stopped growing.

But that’s only half of what these simple graphs show. The other piece of information they yield is even more important. As the stimulus fades, the positive trends begin to falter: both GDP and job growth slow significantly, and unemployment stagnates at a highly elevated level.

The message of these three simple graphs is itself disarmingly simple: the stimulus worked. It prevented recession from becoming depression. It just ended too soon.

And that’s why the President’s new jobs agenda is so damn important.

The Impact of the Recovery Act, In a Few Easy Charts | On the Economy

Yes..That's fascinating. You are satisfied all is well because unemployment stopped rising.
I asked you to answer why with all the people not employed and no longer collecting or seeking unemployment compensation or are working as temps and part time, why it is there is no DROP in unemployment.
I also asked you to elaborate on why it is $800 billion was spent to boost jobs, but did not and why THIS TIME another half trillion would do the trick even though their is no actual jobs bill for Congress to examine.
You can post all the BLS stats you like. It still does not answer to the facts. And those are the economy is still stuck in a malaise and shows no signs of improving.
The President's jobs agenda is no different from the big government money grab of the first two stimulus bills.

Still does not answer the questions as to why unemployment has not fallen

 

[Bfgrn]

Think progress?...Get the fuck out of here!
Think Progress...Yeah, that bunch doesn't have an agenda..Sure.
Hey genius? I have a couple of questions.....If the table above is accurate, why then has the unemployment rate not fallen? Also, with all the people not working or working part time and thus not counted as "unemployed" has the official unemployment rate not fallen?
Both stimulus bill saved a few thousand government workers from being laid off immediately and a few scattered road projects. The rest of the money disappeared like a fart in the wind. And we're supposed to happily agree to another half trillion in mystery money because "while it didn't work last time....Just trust me, it WILL work THIS time!"....
What a bunch of bullshit.
I do like Obama's idea of giving small business some tax relief but there is no relief without Obama getting something on the back end. IN other words, there's a catch.

The chart is from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

When the bill was signed in February 2009, GDP growth was almost unprecedentedly negative—down 9% in the previous quarter (2008q4). But as the figure reveals, the economy immediately between to contract less quickly, and growth turned positive by mid-2009. We see the same pattern in job growth, which also reversed course soon after passage, and broke zero—net job growth—in March of 2010 (the addition and subtraction of Census workers that year distort the picture somewhat, but they’re not included in the private sector data, which present a clearer view of what happened).

Unemployment always lags growth by at least six months, but a few months after ARRA kicked in, it stopped growing.

But that’s only half of what these simple graphs show. The other piece of information they yield is even more important. As the stimulus fades, the positive trends begin to falter: both GDP and job growth slow significantly, and unemployment stagnates at a highly elevated level.

The message of these three simple graphs is itself disarmingly simple: the stimulus worked. It prevented recession from becoming depression. It just ended too soon.

And that’s why the President’s new jobs agenda is so damn important.

The Impact of the Recovery Act, In a Few Easy Charts | On the Economy

Yes..That's fascinating. You are satisfied all is well because unemployment stopped rising.
I asked you to answer why with all the people not employed and no longer collecting or seeking unemployment compensation or are working as temps and part time, why it is there is no DROP in unemployment.
I also asked you to elaborate on why it is $800 billion was spent to boost jobs, but did not and why THIS TIME another half trillion would do the trick even though their is no actual jobs bill for Congress to examine.
You can post all the BLS stats you like. It still does not answer to the facts. And those are the economy is still stuck in a malaise and shows no signs of improving.
The President's jobs agenda is no different from the big government money grab of the first two stimulus bills.

Still does not answer the questions as to why unemployment has not fallen

Because a band-aid cannot stop a ruptured artery. The stimulus worked magnificently, but it was not big enough. We didn't know just how deep the unfolding downturn was.

The Teapublicans solution is blood letting...let the artery bleed until the bleeding stops.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The chart is from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.

When the bill was signed in February 2009, GDP growth was almost unprecedentedly negative—down 9% in the previous quarter (2008q4). But as the figure reveals, the economy immediately between to contract less quickly, and growth turned positive by mid-2009. We see the same pattern in job growth, which also reversed course soon after passage, and broke zero—net job growth—in March of 2010 (the addition and subtraction of Census workers that year distort the picture somewhat, but they’re not included in the private sector data, which present a clearer view of what happened).

Unemployment always lags growth by at least six months, but a few months after ARRA kicked in, it stopped growing.

But that’s only half of what these simple graphs show. The other piece of information they yield is even more important. As the stimulus fades, the positive trends begin to falter: both GDP and job growth slow significantly, and unemployment stagnates at a highly elevated level.

The message of these three simple graphs is itself disarmingly simple: the stimulus worked. It prevented recession from becoming depression. It just ended too soon.

And that’s why the President’s new jobs agenda is so damn important.

The Impact of the Recovery Act, In a Few Easy Charts | On the Economy

Yes..That's fascinating. You are satisfied all is well because unemployment stopped rising.
I asked you to answer why with all the people not employed and no longer collecting or seeking unemployment compensation or are working as temps and part time, why it is there is no DROP in unemployment.
I also asked you to elaborate on why it is $800 billion was spent to boost jobs, but did not and why THIS TIME another half trillion would do the trick even though their is no actual jobs bill for Congress to examine.
You can post all the BLS stats you like. It still does not answer to the facts. And those are the economy is still stuck in a malaise and shows no signs of improving.
The President's jobs agenda is no different from the big government money grab of the first two stimulus bills.

Still does not answer the questions as to why unemployment has not fallen

Because a band-aid cannot stop a ruptured artery. The stimulus worked magnificently, but it was not big enough. We didn't know just how deep the unfolding downturn was.

The Teapublicans solution is blood letting...let the artery bleed until the bleeding stops.

So your solution is too keep the money flowing even though the facts show the stimulus packages DID NOTHING to stop the downward trend in the economy nor did they drop unemployment percentages. In fact Obama admitted there were no "shovel ready projects". And even though unemployment has increased on BOTH stimulus bills.
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.
Look, your loyalty to Obama is admirable. Still doesn't change the facts.
Since you decided to not answer or even dodge my previous questions, here's a request..
Provide examples( not BLS charts) of actual permanent employment has been established by any stimulus. Private sector only. Government work is not economic stimulus. It's simply more tax dollars spent.
Please limit your response to the request.

 

[saveliberty]

All those charts show is the country was coming out of the recession AS the stimulus came out. It was cyclically ready to do so at that point already. The stimulus drew down important resources that could have been used in the economy to bring back jobs. Instead it PROLONGED the recession and put us at risk for the double dip, which is coming in housing and employment.

 

[EriktheRed]

The stimulus drew down important resources that could have been used in the economy to bring back jobs.

How is that?