Obamas "Jobs Bill" is DOA as it should be!!!!!!! Unfu***** believeable

[Bfgrn]

Yes..That's fascinating. You are satisfied all is well because unemployment stopped rising.
I asked you to answer why with all the people not employed and no longer collecting or seeking unemployment compensation or are working as temps and part time, why it is there is no DROP in unemployment.
I also asked you to elaborate on why it is $800 billion was spent to boost jobs, but did not and why THIS TIME another half trillion would do the trick even though their is no actual jobs bill for Congress to examine.
You can post all the BLS stats you like. It still does not answer to the facts. And those are the economy is still stuck in a malaise and shows no signs of improving.
The President's jobs agenda is no different from the big government money grab of the first two stimulus bills.

Still does not answer the questions as to why unemployment has not fallen

Because a band-aid cannot stop a ruptured artery. The stimulus worked magnificently, but it was not big enough. We didn't know just how deep the unfolding downturn was.

The Teapublicans solution is blood letting...let the artery bleed until the bleeding stops.

So your solution is too keep the money flowing even though the facts show the stimulus packages DID NOTHING to stop the downward trend in the economy nor did they drop unemployment percentages. In fact Obama admitted there were no "shovel ready projects". And even though unemployment has increased on BOTH stimulus bills.
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.
Look, your loyalty to Obama is admirable. Still doesn't change the facts.
Since you decided to not answer or even dodge my previous questions, here's a request..
Provide examples( not BLS charts) of actual permanent employment has been established by any stimulus. Private sector only. Government work is not economic stimulus. It's simply more tax dollars spent.
Please limit your response to the request.

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

 

[saveliberty]

Nope the stimulus prolonged the recession and left the door open for a double dip. You know shy consumers don't spend? They are concerned about having debts and keeping what they have. The same reasons business people don't hire and have cash stockpiled. Stimulus II will just make this worse and cause the double dip recession.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Because a band-aid cannot stop a ruptured artery. The stimulus worked magnificently, but it was not big enough. We didn't know just how deep the unfolding downturn was.

The Teapublicans solution is blood letting...let the artery bleed until the bleeding stops.

So your solution is too keep the money flowing even though the facts show the stimulus packages DID NOTHING to stop the downward trend in the economy nor did they drop unemployment percentages. In fact Obama admitted there were no "shovel ready projects". And even though unemployment has increased on BOTH stimulus bills.
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.
Look, your loyalty to Obama is admirable. Still doesn't change the facts.
Since you decided to not answer or even dodge my previous questions, here's a request..
Provide examples( not BLS charts) of actual permanent employment has been established by any stimulus. Private sector only. Government work is not economic stimulus. It's simply more tax dollars spent.
Please limit your response to the request.

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

 

[Bfgrn]

So your solution is too keep the money flowing even though the facts show the stimulus packages DID NOTHING to stop the downward trend in the economy nor did they drop unemployment percentages. In fact Obama admitted there were no "shovel ready projects". And even though unemployment has increased on BOTH stimulus bills.
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.
Look, your loyalty to Obama is admirable. Still doesn't change the facts.
Since you decided to not answer or even dodge my previous questions, here's a request..
Provide examples( not BLS charts) of actual permanent employment has been established by any stimulus. Private sector only. Government work is not economic stimulus. It's simply more tax dollars spent.
Please limit your response to the request.

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

Your chart doesn't prove anything about the stimulus. Does the chart have a fucking crystal ball to know what would have happened without the insane spending? No it doesn't. The only thing your convincing people in this thread is what an ass kissing liberal you are.

AGAIN THE CHART CAN'T PREDICT WHAT IF SCENARIOS. THIS ISN'T GRADE SCHOOL.

But thanks for endlessly bumping an old thread.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

In fact that very same chart could be used to put forth a hypotheses that the economy has stopped bleeding jobs despite the stimulus.

It's all nothing more than a hypotheses. All of it.

The only thing we know for fact is that unemployment is still super high and most all economic indicators are still in the ditch despite Obamas efforts.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

The stimulus drew down important resources that could have been used in the economy to bring back jobs.

How is that?

The only thing wrong with that is
obama's policeies will put him out of a job republicans refuse to drill anymore holes in the sinking ship.

 

[Bfgrn]

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

Your chart doesn't prove anything about the stimulus. Does the chart have a fucking crystal ball to know what would have happened without the insane spending? No it doesn't. The only thing your convincing people in this thread is what an ass kissing liberal you are.

AGAIN THE CHART CAN'T PREDICT WHAT IF SCENARIOS. THIS ISN'T GRADE SCHOOL.

But thanks for endlessly bumping an old thread.

Only a fucking retard wouldn't be capable of seeing the plummeting trajectory before the stimulus and the rapid and CLEAR reversal in a positive direction when the stimulus was implemented. ONLY and outside force (the stimulus) could cause that dramatic of a change.

Your dogma and radical ideology has rotted your mind. I suggest you always have an adult assist you across the street. Retards get smushed.

 

[Foxfyre]

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

If the economists didn't know how bad things were then, why do you have so much confidence that they how how good or bad things are now? Have you noticed that almost EVERY week or month, the financial news was 'unexpected'? Doesn't seem like analysis and forecasts are some of their strong suits.

The fact remains that the official unemployment rate is something over 9% which generally means that the actual unemployment rate is somewhere between 16 and 20%. The GDP has slowed to a crawl and there were zero net jobs created ANYWHERE in August, 2011. With the President continuing his class warfare--the 'rich' have to pay more--project, there is no indication that the employers of American intend to risk the trillions of dollars of investment capital they continue to sit on both here at home and abroad.

The roads and bridges and schools and other infrastructure that were supposed to be repaired with the first stimulus did not get repaired. The lawsuits will be coming faster and harder now that the Solyndra scandal and other similar capers are coming to light.

If we go with the President's posted numbers for the 'results' of the stimulus and believe his numbers re 'created or saved jobs', those jobs cost we the taxpayers $286,000 per job. I wish I had known how to latch onto one of those jobs.

And now we have the President unveiling his "Buffet plan" tomorrow, a scheme named for the multi-billionaire gentleman who said he paid taxes at a lower rate than his secretary does. The same Warren Buffet who is CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, the eighth-largest public company in the world according to Forbes, that is currently fighting the IRS over taxes the government says it owes for 2002 through 2009.

(P.S. The reason Buffet pays at a lower rate is because most of his income is in capital gains from stocks and bonds, the same deal available to ALL of us who receive our income that way.)

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

Your chart doesn't prove anything about the stimulus. Does the chart have a fucking crystal ball to know what would have happened without the insane spending? No it doesn't. The only thing your convincing people in this thread is what an ass kissing liberal you are.

AGAIN THE CHART CAN'T PREDICT WHAT IF SCENARIOS. THIS ISN'T GRADE SCHOOL.

But thanks for endlessly bumping an old thread.

Only a fucking retard wouldn't be capable of seeing the plummeting trajectory before the stimulus and the rapid and CLEAR reversal in a positive direction when the stimulus was implemented. ONLY and outside force (the stimulus) could cause that dramatic of a change.

Your dogma and radical ideology has rotted your mind. I suggest you always have an adult assist you across the street. Retards get smushed.

Failing economies have historically recovered regardless of any newly introduced factors. It's what happens when you bottom out.

Thanks for playing.

 

[saveliberty]

Got to love that shovel ready projects tact. We had two blocks of streets replaced here. Now the school in the first block is closed. All that money for the project went to out-of-town workers. No job was created or saved as near as I could tell.

Oh, and the airport project started 20 years ago was completed this year. We have many two or three small jets a month fly in. I think that was around a three million dollar deal.

 

[saveliberty]

Lets take a little math class.

Your at 1,000 employees, the recession hits and you lose 10% of the workers. That leaves 900. Now you RECOVER and gain 1%. That is 9 workers returning. Even if you had a 10% increase, it would be ninty workers. Ten people still is out of work. Funny how those percentages don't really tell the story.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

All he has are middle school level insults and blind faith in O's policies.

Certain indicators are up but all the ones that matter to regular Americans are in the tank, just like his presidency.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

Things are worse than the chart indicates. I don't dispute that. It reinforces the FACT the economy was in much worse condition than the economists realized. The fact that it is worse is not BECAUSE of the stimulus. The stimulus CLEARLY stopped the downward trend in the economy (GDP) and it CLEARLY reversed the hemorrhaging of job loss in the private sector (red line in chart).

You cannot face the reality that A) the stimulus worked and B) the stimulus was not big enough to fix a systemic problem that was and is MUCH bigger than anyone knew.

No....The Obama admin insisted the stimulus would improve the job market, housing market and the general economy. All those things have continued to trend downward.
No amount of government intervention is going to help. Simply because the amounts of money the government is spending are contributing to the problem.
Business sees this spending and knows there is an eventuality of a big tax increase.
Obamacare threat is causing business to contract as well.
Our debt is having an adverse affect on consumer credit, our standing in the world economic circles.
Look there is nothing that the government can do that the private sector cannot do if left alone to do it.
Unfortunately, Obama and his people see government as the answer to everything.
Obama has systematically tried to destroy the private sector.
This nation cannot afford any more idiotic spending sprees. The time for fiscal responsibility is NOW.
The first two stimulus did not work. No matter how one tries to spin it, it just isn't true.
That's that. No more money.....Let the private sector do what it is capable of and the housing market bottom out then the economy will recover just as it did after the recession of the early 1990's. Government needs to get out of the way.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This dude is out there. If we were to only go by timelines and charts then we could clearly blame this disaster in Obamas nomination for president. It clearly happend according to the charts and date after he was nominated. Must be his fault then.

See how that works? You can extrapolate anything you want from any chart or survey if you apply it with "your" logic.

Bottom line Obama spent us into oblivion for nothing.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So your solution is too keep the money flowing even though the facts show the stimulus packages DID NOTHING to stop the downward trend in the economy nor did they drop unemployment percentages. In fact Obama admitted there were no "shovel ready projects". And even though unemployment has increased on BOTH stimulus bills.
Insanity is defined as doing the same thing repeatedly expecting a different result.
Look, your loyalty to Obama is admirable. Still doesn't change the facts.
Since you decided to not answer or even dodge my previous questions, here's a request..
Provide examples( not BLS charts) of actual permanent employment has been established by any stimulus. Private sector only. Government work is not economic stimulus. It's simply more tax dollars spent.
Please limit your response to the request.

I just DID...what source will you accept? The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics is THE BEST source. What do you want; name, address and phone number???

That's an opinion....I didn't ask you to regurgitate statistics. That's too easy. The way the federal government deals with employment stats is suspect because as we all are aware they do not count as unemployed those not receiving unemployment compensation.
Next, the BLS does not count people who have stopped looking for work. They also do not consider the "underemployed".
What I want to see from is what I requested above. Those BLS statistics do not indicate the conditions now seen in the private sector.
So if you're going to base your opinions on BLS stats alone, there is no use discussing this with you.

And just stating numbers doesn't tell you anything about the reasons behind them. Correlation does not prove causation.

 

[Bfgrn]

The right wing dogma driven state of denial...

The economy expanded for four consecutive quarters after the stimulus spending accelerated and began to contract as the stimulus dollars ran out...All of these had to just be coincidences...bolts from the sky!!!

CBO Report

CBO estimates that ARRA’s policies had the following effects in the second quarter of calendar year 2010:

* They raised real (inflation-adjusted) gross domestic product (GDP) by between 1.7 percent and 4.5 percent,

* Lowered the unemployment rate by between 0.7 percentage points and 1.8 percentage points,

* Increased the number of people employed by between 1.4 million and 3.3 million, and

* Increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs by 2.0 million to 4.8 million compared with what would have occurred otherwise

The effects of ARRA on output are expected to gradually diminish during the second half of 2010 and beyond. The effects of ARRA on employment and unemployment are expected to lag slightly behind the effects on output; they are expected to wane gradually in 2011 and beyond.

 

[editec]

We do not appear to be on that same downward trajectory of unemployment that we were on when Bush II was leaving office.

However we are not recovering those lost jobs fast enough to even keep pace with the natural growth of the labor force.

I think we've made progress, but not nearly enough.

 

[saveliberty]

The CBO faux statistic mill is laughable. What was suppose to be an independent think group has been watered down to being spoon fed insane scenarios with predetermined outcomes. This is one reason I know its crap:

" * Increased the number of full-time-equivalent jobs by 2.0 million to 4.8 million compared with what would have occurred otherwise."

Would have occurred otherwise? You are comparing to a graph based on assumptions that may or may not have occurred. It was a guess to put it mildly.

 

[Meister]

We do not appear to be on that same downward trajectory of unemployment that we were on when Bush II was leaving office.

However we are not recovering those lost jobs fast enough to even keep pace with the natural growth of the labor force.

I think we've made progress, but not nearly enough.

If Obama had just stayed out of it, the recovery would have been a natural growth in the labor force. He threw a wrench into the spokes of the wheel.