Obama's right

[Coyote]

No, TK. I heard a very interesting news bit on this - I will try to find it and link it. But ISIS is essentially an Apocolyptic cult.

Edited to add: here's one link What ISIS Really Wants - The Atlantic

I am wading thru that article now. I think it says ISIS is far more than a cult. It's the real deal...old time muslim zealots...that have to be dealt with. To say as obama says they are not muslim is absurd.

They are about as Muslim as the LRA is Christian.

You must be joking.

Given the huge number of Muslims repudiating the actions of ISIS, and being killed by ISIS, no. I'm not joking

There are a billion Muslims on the planet, just how many of that billion are repudiating these acts of barbarity? I would gather it is a minority, not a majority, unless you can prove otherwise.

Many. Many high level religious figures and heads of state. I won't make a list because the problem is every time I do - it's ignored. But you can google it easily.

I'm willing to wager more Muslim leaders have spoken out against this than Christians have against abortion clinic bombers but of course we hold them to different standards - only Muslims are required to exhibit some sort of majority population repudiation.

 

[Vigilante]

"I'm willing to wager more Muslim leaders have spoken out against this than Christians have against abortion clinic bombers but of course we hold them to different standards - only Muslims are required to exhibit some sort of majority population repudiation."

Hmmmm... a muslim leader that seems to disagree with POTUS and others that believe there are differing muslims!

 

[deltex1]

I think we have to lead it...not with troops but with air power and technology...and with a leader....which means 2017....in the meantime aggresive attrition....and containment.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But do you think we should be in the forefront of any action against ISIS?

I do. Our soldiers are ready and willing. We don't speak for their willingness or unwillingness to go to war, they are there to defend our citizens from harm here at home and around the world. What good does it do if we sit them on the shelf and refuse to show the world we care about our people? Why do we worry about our image? What is it to the act of saving lives?

This might not be the best analogy, but I gather you've seen Star Wars. In it, Grand Moff Tarkin threatens to destroy Leia's home planet if she does not reveal the location of the Rebel base. She proclaimed "Alderaan is peaceful! We have no weapons, you can't possibly..." But even after she tells him (misleadingly) he proceeds anyway. Alderaan was promptly destroyed. Being peaceful doesn't protect you from the rigors of war, it doesn't matter in the eyes of a ruthless enemy.

 

[Kosh]

I'm willing to wager more Muslim leaders have spoken out against this than Christians have against abortion clinic bombers but of course we hold them to different standards - only Muslims are required to exhibit some sort of majority population repudiation.

Sure if you want to search all those web sites from 80's and 90's.

 

[Synthaholic]

So was Bush.

This isn't a war against Islam. It's a war against extremists. America is a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, athiests and those who's religions I don't know. By saying we are at war with Islam, we're saying we are at war with our own citizens solely because of their religion.

Obama is right about another thing. We can't fight ISIS, and other extremists, as a strictly military endeavor. It needs a holistic approach. This means getting at the root causes to prevent further extremist recruiting, this means involving communities both secular and religious.

Obama is also right about the level of our involvement. This is a struggle - a war within Islam - that can only be won by Muslims. If we, the West, step in beyond a supporting role - it will vindicate ISIS. ISIS, according to what I heard, is an Apocolyptic cult. If they can draw in the West, they will create the Apocolypse they desire. They will also draw sympathy to their cause because they will control the narrative and it's the same narrative that some here in the US are trying to propogate. The West vs. Islam.

That's the narrative that would lead to an Apocolypse. It's not the narrative we need or want. It's not the narrative Islam needs or wants. It only serves cults like ISIS. The Muslim majority countries in the ME must take the lead in any military endeavor - it's Muslims fighting extremists for the future of Islam. And we can only provide a supporting role, and we need to.

So, Obama is right. Bush is right. And kudus to both for holding to this truth.

Bush is a stupid cowboy who pulled the trigger before he got his big-boy pants up past his knees.

ISIS wouldn't exist today without the largesse and sheer stupidity of Bush and Cheney doing NOTHING but enriching themselves. Narcissists. Any first year student of any military war college knew more about how to handle the problem in the Middle East than Bush did.

Far left propaganda!

Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I bet the far left blames Bush for this as well..

No, that was Reagan. But by that point he was pretty much out of it.

What did Reagan do again? Launch a few missiles into the Libyan desert? Big whoop.

 

[TemplarKormac]

So, Templar, would you condone hating and killing fundementalist Christians because that is what makes up most of the KKK?

That's bullshit and you know it. I hate those who pervert my faith, and they deserve what fate they bring upon themselves. The catch here is, they are doing despicable acts in the name of my faith, I'd do what was necessary to stop them.

We need to do all we can to exterminate ISIS

LETS DO IT THEN! Giving them jobs won't solve the problem, dropping loads of ordinance won't work either. Time to grow a pair and hit them hard.

 

[Kosh]

So was Bush.

This isn't a war against Islam. It's a war against extremists. America is a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, athiests and those who's religions I don't know. By saying we are at war with Islam, we're saying we are at war with our own citizens solely because of their religion.

Obama is right about another thing. We can't fight ISIS, and other extremists, as a strictly military endeavor. It needs a holistic approach. This means getting at the root causes to prevent further extremist recruiting, this means involving communities both secular and religious.

Obama is also right about the level of our involvement. This is a struggle - a war within Islam - that can only be won by Muslims. If we, the West, step in beyond a supporting role - it will vindicate ISIS. ISIS, according to what I heard, is an Apocolyptic cult. If they can draw in the West, they will create the Apocolypse they desire. They will also draw sympathy to their cause because they will control the narrative and it's the same narrative that some here in the US are trying to propogate. The West vs. Islam.

That's the narrative that would lead to an Apocolypse. It's not the narrative we need or want. It's not the narrative Islam needs or wants. It only serves cults like ISIS. The Muslim majority countries in the ME must take the lead in any military endeavor - it's Muslims fighting extremists for the future of Islam. And we can only provide a supporting role, and we need to.

So, Obama is right. Bush is right. And kudus to both for holding to this truth.

Bush is a stupid cowboy who pulled the trigger before he got his big-boy pants up past his knees.

ISIS wouldn't exist today without the largesse and sheer stupidity of Bush and Cheney doing NOTHING but enriching themselves. Narcissists. Any first year student of any military war college knew more about how to handle the problem in the Middle East than Bush did.

Far left propaganda!

Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I bet the far left blames Bush for this as well..

No, that was Reagan. But by that point he was pretty much out of it.

What did Reagan do again? Launch a few missiles into the Libyan desert? Big whoop.

Once again showing why the far left is the most dangerous religion on the planet..

 

[TemplarKormac]

Fine. Let them kill more Americans. Show the world we don't care what they do to them.

 

[Coyote]

But do you think we should be in the forefront of any action against ISIS?

I do. Our soldiers are ready and willing. We don't speak for their willingness or unwillingness to go to war, they are there to defend our citizens from harm here at home and around the world. What good does it do if we sit them on the shelf and refuse to show the world we care about our people? Why do we worry about our image? What is it to the act of saving lives?

This might not be the best analogy, but I gather you've seen Star Wars. In it, Grand Moff Tarkin threatens to destroy Leia's home planet if she does not reveal the location of the Rebel base. She proclaimed "Alderaan is a planet of peace, we have no weapons! But even after she tells him (misleadingly) he proceeds anyway. Alderaan was promptly destroyed. Being peaceful doesn't protect you from the rigors of war, it doesn't matter in the eyes of a ruthless enemy.

Ya, I've seen Star Wars...saw it when it first came out

But I don't agree with it here. I don't think it's so black and white.

There is the Middle East and Islam. There is the West and, largely secularism. Islam is in transition big time. The Middle East is a mix of civil wars, a legacy of outside interference, corruption, totalitarian governments, failed states, tribal, sectarian, and ethnic conflicts that we barely have a clue about. We have so little clue about it that we toppled a stable government in Iraq and opened Pandora's box. It can't be closed. This has led to the situation we see now with ISIS - an extremist cult that flourishes in the chaos. And what is it's chief recruiting weapon? The slick propaganda and ability to terrorize. And to portray the conflict as Islam versus the West.
But it isn't Islam vs the West. It's ISIS vs. everyone. Including Islam. And because ISIS is an extremist cult of Islam, Islam needs to be in the lead.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Many. Many high level religious figures and heads of state.

Do they represent the collective will of Islam? I seriously doubt they speak for all of them.

 

[Coyote]

"I'm willing to wager more Muslim leaders have spoken out against this than Christians have against abortion clinic bombers but of course we hold them to different standards - only Muslims are required to exhibit some sort of majority population repudiation."

Hmmmm... a muslim leader that seems to disagree with POTUS and others that believe there are differing muslims!

So show me all the Christian leaders that have spoken out against abortion clinic bombings.

 

[norwegen]

If we preserve the host, we'll forever battle the parasites.

 

[Kosh]

We have so little clue about it that we toppled a stable government in Iraq and opened Pandora's box

So dictatorships are stable governments in your mind? So North Korea is a stable government, Libya under Kaddafi was a stable government, Saudi Arabia is a stable government..

Says a lot about you!

 

[Synthaholic]

So was Bush.

This isn't a war against Islam. It's a war against extremists. America is a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, athiests and those who's religions I don't know. By saying we are at war with Islam, we're saying we are at war with our own citizens solely because of their religion.

Obama is right about another thing. We can't fight ISIS, and other extremists, as a strictly military endeavor. It needs a holistic approach. This means getting at the root causes to prevent further extremist recruiting, this means involving communities both secular and religious.

Obama is also right about the level of our involvement. This is a struggle - a war within Islam - that can only be won by Muslims. If we, the West, step in beyond a supporting role - it will vindicate ISIS. ISIS, according to what I heard, is an Apocolyptic cult. If they can draw in the West, they will create the Apocolypse they desire. They will also draw sympathy to their cause because they will control the narrative and it's the same narrative that some here in the US are trying to propogate. The West vs. Islam.

That's the narrative that would lead to an Apocolypse. It's not the narrative we need or want. It's not the narrative Islam needs or wants. It only serves cults like ISIS. The Muslim majority countries in the ME must take the lead in any military endeavor - it's Muslims fighting extremists for the future of Islam. And we can only provide a supporting role, and we need to.

So, Obama is right. Bush is right. And kudus to both for holding to this truth.

Bush is a stupid cowboy who pulled the trigger before he got his big-boy pants up past his knees.

ISIS wouldn't exist today without the largesse and sheer stupidity of Bush and Cheney doing NOTHING but enriching themselves. Narcissists. Any first year student of any military war college knew more about how to handle the problem in the Middle East than Bush did.

Far left propaganda!

Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I bet the far left blames Bush for this as well..

No, that was Reagan. But by that point he was pretty much out of it.

What did Reagan do again? Launch a few missiles into the Libyan desert? Big whoop.

Once again showing why the far left is the most dangerous religion on the planet..

Click your own link! What does it say under DATE?

21 December 1988

Who was president on that date, dumbass?

 

[Coyote]

Many. Many high level religious figures and heads of state.

Do they represent the collective will of Islam? I seriously doubt they speak for all of them.

And there you have it.

You demand that Islam speak out against extremism.

When they do, you then say - do they represent the collective will of Islam?

It's a no win.

When Christian leaders speak out against atrocities do they represent the collective will of Christians?

 

[Kosh]

"I'm willing to wager more Muslim leaders have spoken out against this than Christians have against abortion clinic bombers but of course we hold them to different standards - only Muslims are required to exhibit some sort of majority population repudiation."

Hmmmm... a muslim leader that seems to disagree with POTUS and others that believe there are differing muslims!

So show me all the Christian leaders that have spoken out against abortion clinic bombings.

Sure let us all search those websites from the late 80's and early 90's..

 

[TemplarKormac]

And because ISIS is an extremist cult of Islam, Islam needs to be in the lead.

And when ISIS begins beheading our citizens, we take the lead. Islam has had many chances to distance itself from the barbarity of terrorism committed in their name, but they have failed.

 

[Kosh]

So was Bush.

This isn't a war against Islam. It's a war against extremists. America is a country of Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, athiests and those who's religions I don't know. By saying we are at war with Islam, we're saying we are at war with our own citizens solely because of their religion.

Obama is right about another thing. We can't fight ISIS, and other extremists, as a strictly military endeavor. It needs a holistic approach. This means getting at the root causes to prevent further extremist recruiting, this means involving communities both secular and religious.

Obama is also right about the level of our involvement. This is a struggle - a war within Islam - that can only be won by Muslims. If we, the West, step in beyond a supporting role - it will vindicate ISIS. ISIS, according to what I heard, is an Apocolyptic cult. If they can draw in the West, they will create the Apocolypse they desire. They will also draw sympathy to their cause because they will control the narrative and it's the same narrative that some here in the US are trying to propogate. The West vs. Islam.

That's the narrative that would lead to an Apocolypse. It's not the narrative we need or want. It's not the narrative Islam needs or wants. It only serves cults like ISIS. The Muslim majority countries in the ME must take the lead in any military endeavor - it's Muslims fighting extremists for the future of Islam. And we can only provide a supporting role, and we need to.

So, Obama is right. Bush is right. And kudus to both for holding to this truth.

Bush is a stupid cowboy who pulled the trigger before he got his big-boy pants up past his knees.

ISIS wouldn't exist today without the largesse and sheer stupidity of Bush and Cheney doing NOTHING but enriching themselves. Narcissists. Any first year student of any military war college knew more about how to handle the problem in the Middle East than Bush did.

Far left propaganda!

Pan Am Flight 103 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

I bet the far left blames Bush for this as well..

No, that was Reagan. But by that point he was pretty much out of it.

What did Reagan do again? Launch a few missiles into the Libyan desert? Big whoop.

Once again showing why the far left is the most dangerous religion on the planet..

Click your own link! What does it say under DATE?

21 December 1988

Who was president on that date, dumbass?

Once again showing why the far left is the most dangerous religion on the planet

 

[Coyote]

We have so little clue about it that we toppled a stable government in Iraq and opened Pandora's box

So dictatorships are stable governments in your mind? So North Korea is a stable government, Libya under Kaddafi was a stable government, Saudi Arabia is a stable government..

Says a lot about you!

Dictatorships can be stable. That's not synonymous with "good".

Can you say with a straight face that Iraq is better off now then it was under Saddam?