Official USMB Shutdown Showdown Thread --- Week of Jan 14th, 2019

[BS Filter]

Not to mention 30 democrats having a party at the resort while 800000 people don't get a paycheck because they refuse to negotiate with our president.

Now is NOT a good time to be a democrat.

I notice the GOP propaganda says call it a “party”

The Dems went there on a fact finding and fund raising effort for Hurricane Maria recovery. You know......Hurricane Maria, an actual crisis

The same crisis that Trump wants to pull construction funds away from to pay for his wall

And liberals call this "fact finding." What facts was he finding?

I think he's checking her out for hail damage reparations.

 

[forkup]

From the Daily Caller, an anonymous alleged employee of the administration*.

The lapse in appropriations is more than a battle over a wall. It is an opportunity to strip wasteful government agencies for good. On an average day, roughly 15 percent of the employees around me are exceptional patriots serving their country. I wish I could give competitive salaries to them and no one else. But 80 percent feel no pressure to produce results. If they don’t feel like doing what they are told, they don’t...

But President Trump can end this abuse. Senior officials can reprioritize during an extended shutdown, focus on valuable results and weed out the saboteurs. We do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them. Sure, we empathize with families making tough financial decisions, like mine, and just like private citizens who have to find other work and bring competitive value every day, while paying more than a third of their salary in federal taxes.

I believe every word of this came from an administration* official. The contempt for public service is pure modern Republicanism. The superiority complex about how families "like mine" are scrapping to make ends meet is pure modern conservatism. And the paranoia about weeding out saboteurs is pure Trumpian boob-bait. This is bullying dressed up as empathy.

I don't know where the people who work with Native Americans, and especially those who work in the various health clinics that service our indigenous peoples, rank on this person's sliding scale of essential employees. Maybe this person thinks the people who work those jobs are part of the 15 percent of federal employees worth their salaries. But, in any case, those particular employees are in deep trouble because of the shutdown. From the AP:

In New Mexico, a lone police officer patrolled a Native American reservation larger in size than Houston on a shift that normally has three people, responding to multiple car wrecks during a snow storm, emergency calls and requests for welfare checks. Elsewhere, federally funded road maintenance programs are operating with skeleton crews and struggling to keep roads clear on remote reservations. Tribal members said they can't get referrals for specialty care from the Indian Health Service if their conditions aren't life-threatening.

Native American tribes rely heavily on funding guaranteed by treaties with the U.S., acts of Congress and other agreements for public safety, social services, education and health care for their members. Because of the shutdown, tribal officials say some programs are on the brink of collapse and others are surviving with tribes filling funding gaps.

About 9,000 Indian Health Service employees, or 60 percent, are working without pay and 35 percent are working with funding streams not affected by the shutdown, according to the Health and Human Services department's shutdown plan. That includes staff providing direct care to patients. The agency delivers health care to about 2.2 million Native Americans and Alaska Natives.

The agency gets money from the Interior Department, whose budget is snared by the shutdown. For many tribal members, IHS is the only option for health care unless they want to pay out of pocket or have other insurance. Benefits under programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are unaffected by the partial government shutdown.

And even more tragic is the effect in Montana on the search for dozens of Native women who have gone missing. The United States government is letting Native peoples down. That's truly hard to imagine.

There are definitely some government employees affected by this shutdown, perhaps many of those you mentioned, who have jobs that are important. However there is no doubt in any reasonable person’s mind that the federal government is fat, and by and large overpaid compared to the output of a private sector job. The reality is that it’s unavoidable. There is literally no way you can expect similar productivity in a competitive environment to the results in a government job. Waste and inefficiency flourish where there is no profit motive.

You think so? Why is it that for profit is by definition less wasteful and inefficient? I'm Belgian. My Healthcare system has very limited for profit motive. My state run health insurance company has a staff of about 10 people to serve my town, population 30000. If I go to a pharmacy I get my script filled immediately. I don't have to come back after a pharmacy tech calls the health insurance. I can let my doctor do a house call if I so desire. If I go to a hospital for a procedure a get 5 single sheets of papers to fill. Can you say the same in your for profit system? For profit has just one overriding incentive.... making profit. If being inefficient or wasteful generates that profit, wasteful and inefficient it will be.

 

[candycorn]

no

Well thought out, articulate, and thought provoking........................for a democrat

Thanks for that.

Forcing people to work without pay is not a good thing. Little thought is required. But then again, some truths are self-evident.

You want people to work as all their money goes to government anyway, so what do you care?

False. Again, some truths are self evident. Some statements are false. You represent the latter.

 

[Oddball]

Wait, the government is shut down? I haven't noticed any change.

And this is the problem.

This Admin is making sure nobody feels any pain except for those not getting paid of course. They keep making more and more people come back to work without a paycheck so that nobody notices anything.

It is such bullshit.

Tissue?

to wipe off the coffee I spit up laughing at your partisan sheep ass?

no thanks

No, to wipe up your crocodile tears being shed for the poooor poooor bureaucratic parasites..

 

[BS Filter]

Not to mention 30 democrats having a party at the resort while 800000 people don't get a paycheck because they refuse to negotiate with our president.

Now is NOT a good time to be a democrat.

I notice the GOP propaganda says call it a “party”

The Dems went there on a fact finding and fund raising effort for Hurricane Maria recovery. You know......Hurricane Maria, an actual crisis

The same crisis that Trump wants to pull construction funds away from to pay for his wall

Show me your source that states that Trump said he wants to use funds for Hurricane Maria for the wall.

Because that is where the military construction funds are

Trumps nuclear option of declaring an emergency does not create funding out of thin air. It will come out of money dedicated to military construction. Most of which is in Puerto Rico

If Trump has another source.......he hasn’t identified it

See, now you just got caught lying again. There are more funds in the Defense Department than just those used for Hurricane Maria.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Their salaries and benefits an envy of most Americans working in the private sector.

Can’t get fired for poor performance.

Retirement packages that are extinct in the private sector. Most Americans have to save to be able to retire, government workers do not.



Let the shutdown continue. They don’t like it, get a job in the private sector.

 

[rightwinger]

This is not the first Republican initiated shutdown the Dems have been through

They know how to respond to Republican extortion

They aren't responding. The democrats turned down a meeting yesterday, not the President. That looks bad on their part. Nancy and Chuckie get their paychecks. Looks bad.

the dems passed 6 bills to open the government- Trump refused to even look at them

and they are the ones not responding ?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Because none of them had border wall funding or highly inadequate border wall funding. THUS THE SENATE NEVER VOTED ON THEM. You must be pretty stupid because Trump never vetoed them, they never got to him. So don't blame Trump. Fucking moron.

Next.

The people elected Democratic Congressmen to represent them. A useless wall was not part of the package.

The votes for wall funding are not in the House or Senate

A presidential temper tantrum will not change it

So democrats are the only voice that counts? The votes are there if Pelosi and Chuckie want them.

Republicans controlled Congress for two years when Democratic votes did not count. They made no effort on border security

Actually, Schumer offered $25 billion in return for DACA last year
Trump refused

 

[Lesh]

For profit has just one overriding incentive.... making profit

 

[rightwinger]

Not to mention 30 democrats having a party at the resort while 800000 people don't get a paycheck because they refuse to negotiate with our president.

Now is NOT a good time to be a democrat.

I notice the GOP propaganda says call it a “party”

The Dems went there on a fact finding and fund raising effort for Hurricane Maria recovery. You know......Hurricane Maria, an actual crisis

The same crisis that Trump wants to pull construction funds away from to pay for his wall

Show me your source that states that Trump said he wants to use funds for Hurricane Maria for the wall.

Because that is where the military construction funds are

Trumps nuclear option of declaring an emergency does not create funding out of thin air. It will come out of money dedicated to military construction. Most of which is in Puerto Rico

If Trump has another source.......he hasn’t identified it

See, now you just got caught lying again. There are more funds in the Defense Department than just those used for Hurricane Maria.

Not construction funds

 

[Faun]

Trump NEVER said Mexico would pay for the wall up front. And as I've stated a hundred times already, there are more than one way that they can pay for it. Mexico refused to pay for it so Trump withdrew from NAFTA. Mexico immediately came to the table and begged to get back in and it was renegotiated in our favor. Improved trade deals will more than pay for the stupid wall over time.

Did your mortgage company demand you pay up front for your house or were you given 30 years?

How Trump plans to make Mexico pay for the wall

Bullshit.

Here’s Trump outlining ways he thought he could compel Mexico to make a “one-time payment” of up to $10 billion to pay for his wall...

 

[airplanemechanic]

They aren't responding. The democrats turned down a meeting yesterday, not the President. That looks bad on their part. Nancy and Chuckie get their paychecks. Looks bad.

the dems passed 6 bills to open the government- Trump refused to even look at them

and they are the ones not responding ?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Because none of them had border wall funding or highly inadequate border wall funding. THUS THE SENATE NEVER VOTED ON THEM. You must be pretty stupid because Trump never vetoed them, they never got to him. So don't blame Trump. Fucking moron.

Next.

The people elected Democratic Congressmen to represent them. A useless wall was not part of the package.

The votes for wall funding are not in the House or Senate

A presidential temper tantrum will not change it

So democrats are the only voice that counts? The votes are there if Pelosi and Chuckie want them.

Republicans controlled Congress for two years when Democratic votes did not count. They made no effort on border security

Actually, Schumer offered $25 billion in return for DACA last year
Trump refused

Because DACA is illegal and unconstitutional. I don't know if he still thinks that but he did last year. Well in 2017.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Wait, the government is shut down? I haven't noticed any change.

And this is the problem.

This Admin is making sure nobody feels any pain except for those not getting paid of course. They keep making more and more people come back to work without a paycheck so that nobody notices anything.

It is such bullshit.

Tissue?

to wipe off the coffee I spit up laughing at your partisan sheep ass?

no thanks

No, to wipe up your crocodile tears being shed for the poooor poooor bureaucratic parasites..

Yep, those border patrol agents are bureaucratic parasites, along with the ICE folks and the Air Traffic Controllers...oh and all of the Coast Guard.

you are so stupid you likely need directions on how to breath.

 

[Oddball]

You don't know the half of it....Check out this one.

I’m A Senior Trump Official, And I Hope A Long Shutdown Smokes Out The Resistance

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I agree.

The entire Coast Guard should quit and go get jobs in the private sector along with the border patrol and the ICE folks.

 

[rightwinger]

I worked 33 years in the federal government

Most of that time, we were anything but the envy of the private sector

When I started working in the late 70s, pay was 20 percent below the private sector. Fellow engineers ran to job offers at RCA, Kodak, Bell Labs, IBM. They mocked me for accepting a government job

In the 90s, we were begging for qualified workers. The private sector paid journeymen engineers $90,000 plus while our managers made $75,000. Those I interviewed laughed at the salary I offered

By 2008, companies were laying off in droves and cutting pay and benefits. Companies like RCA, Kodak and Bell Labs we’re gone. Qualified workers started to realize that steady pay and job security were valuable

I don’t feel sorry for the private sector

 

[BS Filter]

They aren't responding. The democrats turned down a meeting yesterday, not the President. That looks bad on their part. Nancy and Chuckie get their paychecks. Looks bad.

the dems passed 6 bills to open the government- Trump refused to even look at them

and they are the ones not responding ?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Because none of them had border wall funding or highly inadequate border wall funding. THUS THE SENATE NEVER VOTED ON THEM. You must be pretty stupid because Trump never vetoed them, they never got to him. So don't blame Trump. Fucking moron.

Next.

The people elected Democratic Congressmen to represent them. A useless wall was not part of the package.

The votes for wall funding are not in the House or Senate

A presidential temper tantrum will not change it

So democrats are the only voice that counts? The votes are there if Pelosi and Chuckie want them.

Republicans controlled Congress for two years when Democratic votes did not count. They made no effort on border security

Actually, Schumer offered $25 billion in return for DACA last year
Trump refused

American kids first, not future democrat voters.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

You don't know the half of it....Check out this one.

I’m A Senior Trump Official, And I Hope A Long Shutdown Smokes Out The Resistance

fake story make up by a staff writer.

 

[Faun]

Because when you pay ransom to kidnappers...they do it again and again

This is not the first Republican initiated shutdown the Dems have been through

They know how to respond to Republican extortion

They aren't responding. The democrats turned down a meeting yesterday, not the President. That looks bad on their part. Nancy and Chuckie get their paychecks. Looks bad.

Why meet? Trump walked out on their previous meeting, citing there’s no point.

 

[SNAFUBARIFIC]

Wait, the government is shut down? I haven't noticed any change.

Me neither...although I don't think they're screwing up as much shit as they usually do...

 

[Dragonlady]

You would think that would scare the shit out of Trump and Congress but no, it will be just lead to more finger pointing.

I'm convinced the only thing that is going to break the stalemate is a real national emergency, such as a terrorist attack or a disaster linked to the goverment shutdown.

seems simple put in the five bucks into the budget and hand it to the pres to sign. seems rather simple. as long as playing partisan politics isn't your thing.

I think the right compromise would be to give Trump the amount of money that the projects will need in this fiscal year. That's what normally happens in a budget.

There is no way that he needs 5.8 billion this fiscal year. He certainly is not going to build his 235 miles of wall in 7 or 8 months, probably not during his term of office. During his first two years in office, Trump has not build a single mile of the new designed wall. He has replaced 40 miles of reinforced fences and a steel barrier built using the same design used 10 years ago. Construction has not started on any of the new wall sections, no land has been acquired, no contracts have been let, no land surveys have been done, and the thousands things that are needed to start a large federal project are still undone.

Trump would hate such a compromise and so would democrats which means it's probably a good compromise. However, we haven't reached the sufficient level of national pain yet for either side to consider a compromise.

Border Patrol is who came up with the $5.8B figure. It is they who said "in order to seriously stop illegal immigration, we need $X amount of money, and some of that needs to be specifically for building new fence where WE need it most"

Trump didn't just pull that figure out of his ass, he's not a Democrat.

5.8 billion is only and initial allocation to get the project started. A document that went to congress some months ago had a figure of 33 billion. However, Homeland Security said the total would be about 40 billion over 10 years to complete their border security project, whatever that entails. If Pelosi thought 5.8 billion was all Trump really wanted for his border security project, she might be more willing to negotiation. However, I don't see her negotiating until something pretty serious happens due to the shutdown such as a major disrupting in commercial aviation which is certainly going to happen eventually with both flight controls and the TSA not being paid. And when it does, there will be a House bill sent to the Senate in 24 hours granting pay for the TSA and flight controllers, daring Trump to turn it down.

so the experts said it would take 40 billion. wow, I thought it was trump. which is it. you know more than the experts? the politicians know more than the experts? really? come on man.

Experts? What experts? Trump hasn't hired any experts to come up with ideas for reducing illegal immigration. He pulled the idea of a wall out of his ass and ran with it. Nobody ASKED for a wall. This was a talking point to remind Trump to talk about immigration on the campaign trail.

The Trump Campaign pulls this idea out of a hat to keep Trump on point on immigration, and now you're trying to spin this as a life or death necessity to save the country??? Give me a fucking break..

This is Trump having a temper tantrum, nothing more. And we don't give in to children having temper tantrums. We send them to their rooms until they smarten up. The Democrats are going to give Trump the smack down of his Presidency on this one.

What a loser!