Ohio rape case...a slippery slope?

[OKTexas]

There's way too much vagueness in the story to draw reasonable conclusions, I simply asked if the girl is going to be held responsible for her known actions.

I will admit that aside from what I've read in this thread and saw briefly on television news I know nothing about the circumstances in this case. But whatever the details, there are certain essential behavioral principles which evidently have been violated and which call for severe punishment. The rules of civilized conduct demand that.

Yep, and by many more people than just the 2 boys, a butt load of people contributed to the situation that night and all should be held accountable.

 

[AmyNation]

You can write the Steubenville police an angry letter and demand they give the rape victim her $250 ticket.

A 16 year old girl drinking like that may need treatment for a drinking problem, do you think this was the first time she got blitzed? Another question was where the hell were her parents while she lay naked on the couch of a strange house overnight? There's a butt load of questions that could be asked and blame to go to many parties other than just the boys.

You know when it's not a good time to talk about underage drinking, right after 2 boys sexually assault, humiliate, and mock their passed out 16 year old victim.

Sure, I think the parents at all 3 houses, the parents of the boys and the parents of the victim were absent when their children needed them. They fucked up big.

However, when something like this happens and you jump into the "why did she drink so much" bandwagon you are laying partial blame for her assault on her. i don't care if she took off all her clothes and danced naked in front of the football team. She has no responsibility in the actions of those boys. She never asked to be raped. It's not ok to attempt to lay even partial responsibility for the actions of the attackers on to the victim. Ever.

 

[Jarlaxle]

You can write the Steubenville police an angry letter and demand they give the rape victim her $250 ticket.

A 16 year old girl drinking like that may need treatment for a drinking problem, do you think this was the first time she got blitzed? Another question was where the hell were her parents while she lay naked on the couch of a strange house overnight? There's a butt load of questions that could be asked and blame to go to many parties other than just the boys.

Her parents should be charged with child neglect. She should be sent to detox.

 

[OKTexas]

No one was. The police focused on the rape and not the drinking.

All I can think right now is, say I'm jaywalking and a man mugs me in the middle of the road, and I press charges on the mugger, then you ask "did the cops give you a ticket for jaywalking?"

*blink blink*

So you think the largest single contributing factor should be ignored, what kind of a message does that send to other teens? Drink all you want, just don't screw around while you do it, or atleast don't document it with your cell phone.

What the hell kind of message are you sending by whining about whether the rape victim was given a ticket for being drunk during her assault?

How many crimes do you think occurred prior to the sexual assault, that contributed directly to it? I'm just saying all involved should be held accountable, from the person or persons who supplied the alcohol on down the chain and yes that would include the girl.

 

[Michelle420]

You can write the Steubenville police an angry letter and demand they give the rape victim her $250 ticket.

A 16 year old girl drinking like that may need treatment for a drinking problem, do you think this was the first time she got blitzed? Another question was where the hell were her parents while she lay naked on the couch of a strange house overnight? There's a butt load of questions that could be asked and blame to go to many parties other than just the boys.

Her parents should be charged with child neglect. She should be sent to detox.

Same with the boys parents

 

[hjmick]

Men have no rights in america and they better get used to it.

Keep going, Corky... You fucking moron.

 

[Dugdale_Jukes]

You can write the Steubenville police an angry letter and demand they give the rape victim her $250 ticket.

A 16 year old girl drinking like that may need treatment for a drinking problem, do you think this was the first time she got blitzed? Another question was where the hell were her parents while she lay naked on the couch of a strange house overnight? There's a butt load of questions that could be asked and blame to go to many parties other than just the boys.

You know when it's not a good time to talk about underage drinking, right after 2 boys sexually assault, humiliate, and mock their passed out 16 year old victim.

Sure, I think the parents at all 3 houses, the parents of the boys and the parents of the victim were absent when their children needed them. They fucked up big.

However, when something like this happens and you jump into the "why did she drink so much" bandwagon you are laying partial blame for her assault on her. i don't care if she took off all her clothes and danced naked in front of the football team. She has no responsibility in the actions of those boys. She never asked to be raped. It's not ok to attempt to lay even partial responsibility for the actions of the attackers on to the victim. Ever.

A. The boys committed a serious crime for which there is no excuse and for which serious punishment including lifelong branding is fair punishment.

B. Every human of normal intelligence is responsible (if not accountable) for the risks they CHOOSE to accept.

C. Human nature has never changed.

D. It never will.

 

[AmyNation]

So you think the largest single contributing factor should be ignored, what kind of a message does that send to other teens? Drink all you want, just don't screw around while you do it, or atleast don't document it with your cell phone.

What the hell kind of message are you sending by whining about whether the rape victim was given a ticket for being drunk during her assault?

How many crimes do you think occurred prior to the sexual assault, that contributed directly to it? I'm just saying all involved should be held accountable, from the person or persons who supplied the alcohol on down the chain and yes that would include the girl.

It's a $250 fine in Ohio to be intoxicated under the age of 18. Again, feel free to write an angry letter to the police and ask they ticket the rape victim.

 

[Mustang]

You've probably all heard about the Ohio juveniles convicted of raping a young woman too intoxicated to give consent. If not, the story is here:

Two teens found guilty in Steubenville rape case - CNN.com

While I think it was MONUMENTALLY stupid of those boys to take pictures of the drunk girl and post them on the internet, I must admit, at the risk of sounding cold, I'm not sure I support the rape conviction.

I don't want to "blame" the victim but on the other hand, nobody forced her to drink herself into oblivion. That was her choice, one that any one knows can lead to unintended and negative consequences. But that's not really my point.

My point is that while these boys, who were also drunk, messed with this girl (no penile penetration), I'm not sure I'd call it rape. While the girl never "consented" to relations, nor did she protest or ever utter a "no" or "stop".

My concern is about the NEXT time two drunks kids have at it. Have we come to a point where the girl can now claim rape because she never gave explicit consent? That's going to result in a lot of innocent boys branded for life as a pervert and that's wrong.

I say if you get so drunk you are unable to voice opposition to another horny teenager fingering your girly parts, you should probably focus on drinking less and not the actions of the drunk boy, all of whom deal with raging testosterone. Of course it's rape if the girl says 'no' but now it's rape if the girl doesn't say 'yes'? What next, signed consent before any sexual relations?!

I don't know, if it was my boy that did that, I'd punish him for sure, but I don't see imposing what is effectively a lifetime sentence of 'sex offender' that will ensure he never gets a good job or any opportunity for advancement. It just doesn't seem right to me. If it was my daughter, I wouldn't allow her to blame the boys. I'd reprimand her for being so damn irresponsible in the first place.

What say you? Am I off base here? I admit to not have a well formed opinion on this one. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Yeah, you're WAY off base here. Those boys took advantage of a girl who had essentially passed out from too much alcohol. The too much alcohol issue is not a surprise due to her age and inexperience. And it wouldn't surprise me for a second to learn that they were trying to get her that drunk on purpose.

This is a big problem in this country and has been for a LONG time. Even before it was called date rape, this was going on as both boys and men intentionally plied girls and women with alcohol either hoping that they would go along with the idea of having sex or get them SO drunk that they couldn't say no or fight back.

 

[OKTexas]

What the hell kind of message are you sending by whining about whether the rape victim was given a ticket for being drunk during her assault?

How many crimes do you think occurred prior to the sexual assault, that contributed directly to it? I'm just saying all involved should be held accountable, from the person or persons who supplied the alcohol on down the chain and yes that would include the girl.

It's a $250 fine in Ohio to be intoxicated under the age of 18. Again, feel free to write an angry letter to the police and ask they ticket the rape victim.

Pleas point out where I've excused the boys, you seem to be willing to excuse all the crimes that created the situation in the first place? Do you not think those people should be held accountable also? Come on get your focus off the girl and take a serious look at how many others directly enabled the crime, should they get a pass?

 

[AmyNation]

I've already said that I don't excuse anyone for their actions. There were a lot of people who take blame in things.

The victim has no blame in her rape. None. Zero. There is no excuse for the behavior of the boys. It doesn't matter that she was drunk. I don't care if she wore a short skirt and promised them all blowjobs. She was unconscience and holds NO responsiblity in the actions of her attackers.

 

[Zona]

How many crimes do you think occurred prior to the sexual assault, that contributed directly to it? I'm just saying all involved should be held accountable, from the person or persons who supplied the alcohol on down the chain and yes that would include the girl.

It's a $250 fine in Ohio to be intoxicated under the age of 18. Again, feel free to write an angry letter to the police and ask they ticket the rape victim.

Pleas point out where I've excused the boys, you seem to be willing to excuse all the crimes that created the situation in the first place? Do you not think those people should be held accountable also? Come on get your focus off the girl and take a serious look at how many others directly enabled the crime, should they get a pass?

Ok, did you not get the part when they said the other people.involved vot immunity when they testified against the rapists. That is the way it works skippy.

 

[syrenn]

You've probably all heard about the Ohio juveniles convicted of raping a young woman too intoxicated to give consent. If not, the story is here:

Two teens found guilty in Steubenville rape case - CNN.com

While I think it was MONUMENTALLY stupid of those boys to take pictures of the drunk girl and post them on the internet, I must admit, at the risk of sounding cold, I'm not sure I support the rape conviction.

I don't want to "blame" the victim but on the other hand, nobody forced her to drink herself into oblivion. That was her choice, one that any one knows can lead to unintended and negative consequences. But that's not really my point.

My point is that while these boys, who were also drunk, messed with this girl (no penile penetration), I'm not sure I'd call it rape. While the girl never "consented" to relations, nor did she protest or ever utter a "no" or "stop".

My concern is about the NEXT time two drunks kids have at it. Have we come to a point where the girl can now claim rape because she never gave explicit consent? That's going to result in a lot of innocent boys branded for life as a pervert and that's wrong.

I say if you get so drunk you are unable to voice opposition to another horny teenager fingering your girly parts, you should probably focus on drinking less and not the actions of the drunk boy, all of whom deal with raging testosterone. Of course it's rape if the girl says 'no' but now it's rape if the girl doesn't say 'yes'? What next, signed consent before any sexual relations?!

I don't know, if it was my boy that did that, I'd punish him for sure, but I don't see imposing what is effectively a lifetime sentence of 'sex offender' that will ensure he never gets a good job or any opportunity for advancement. It just doesn't seem right to me. If it was my daughter, I wouldn't allow her to blame the boys. I'd reprimand her for being so damn irresponsible in the first place.

What say you? Am I off base here? I admit to not have a well formed opinion on this one. It just doesn't feel right to me.

There is no slippery slope.

The boys participated in crimes against an unconscious person. An underage person at that. Just because someone has drunk themselves into unconsciousness does not give anyone else permission to do....anything to them.

what feels wrong to me is the leniency in the charges and sentences.

They should have also been charged with manufacturing, possessing and distributing child pornography.

 

[OKTexas]

It's a $250 fine in Ohio to be intoxicated under the age of 18. Again, feel free to write an angry letter to the police and ask they ticket the rape victim.

Pleas point out where I've excused the boys, you seem to be willing to excuse all the crimes that created the situation in the first place? Do you not think those people should be held accountable also? Come on get your focus off the girl and take a serious look at how many others directly enabled the crime, should they get a pass?

Ok, did you not get the part when they said the other people.involved vot immunity when they testified against the rapists. That is the way it works skippy.

Well skippy, what about the adults that supplied the booze, the houses and the cars that allowed these binging teens to attend a series of parties and get form place to place. Ever heard of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, DUI by consent laws. I'll bet there are ten to twelve adults that provided logistical support or worse to these parties in one form or another that should not be allowed to walk away scott free.

 

[Agit8r]

so you don't think it was "legitimate"?

 

[syrenn]

Pleas point out where I've excused the boys, you seem to be willing to excuse all the crimes that created the situation in the first place? Do you not think those people should be held accountable also? Come on get your focus off the girl and take a serious look at how many others directly enabled the crime, should they get a pass?

Ok, did you not get the part when they said the other people.involved vot immunity when they testified against the rapists. That is the way it works skippy.

Well skippy, what about the adults that supplied the booze, the houses and the cars that allowed these binging teens to attend a series of parties and get form place to place. Ever heard of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, DUI by consent laws. I'll bet there are ten to twelve adults that provided logistical support or worse to these parties in one form or another that should not be allowed to walk away scott free.

i agree... and i hope the victim sues each and everyone of them for millions.

 

[MikeK]

Except, of course, that the young woman who was sexually assaulted is now getting death threats, texts, e-mails. Her life - & her family's life - in that town is essentially over.

I don't think so.

The threatening emails and text messages are coming from high-school punks and alley-cat friends of the punks who abused the girl. They will soon be distracted by something else. But if the police make a reasonable effort they will be able to trace one of these messages and if they prosecute the sender the practice will abruptly stop.

In the long run, it's probably better for the family to move away & try to outlive the notoriety. I don't see any way that all the parties are going to forgive each other & try to settle back into the semblance of normality.

If the investigation into what happened hadn't turned into a virtual Internet circus, it might be possible for everyone to agree to forgive & forget. But it's too high profile of a case, the media are all over the story.

& so now we have the addition of insult to injury ...

Regardless of this girl's habits and reputation, what these punks did to her was cruelly contemptible and cannot be justified by any clivilized standard of behavior. In time this will be realized by all concerned -- unless this happens to be a low-life community wherein civilized behavior cannot be expected from the residents.

As far as the media is concerned, all it will take to kill the story is another high-interest incident.

 

[MikeK]

You can write the Steubenville police an angry letter and demand they give the rape victim her $250 ticket.

A 16 year old girl drinking like that may need treatment for a drinking problem, do you think this was the first time she got blitzed? Another question was where the hell were her parents while she lay naked on the couch of a strange house overnight? There's a butt load of questions that could be asked and blame to go to many parties other than just the boys.

Her parents should be charged with child neglect. She should be sent to detox.

Of course the girl needs some form of psychiatric treatment for her very obvious problem. But what about the boys' parents? It seems fairly obvious that neither of these boys were raised with any meaningful concern for their sense of morality and simple human compassion.

Doing what those boys did is comparable to tormenting a defenseless animal because it's "funny."

 

[OKTexas]

Ok, did you not get the part when they said the other people.involved vot immunity when they testified against the rapists. That is the way it works skippy.

Well skippy, what about the adults that supplied the booze, the houses and the cars that allowed these binging teens to attend a series of parties and get form place to place. Ever heard of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, DUI by consent laws. I'll bet there are ten to twelve adults that provided logistical support or worse to these parties in one form or another that should not be allowed to walk away scott free.

i agree... and i hope the victim sues each and everyone of them for millions.

Thank you, but criminal charges should not be out of the question either.

 

[syrenn]

Well skippy, what about the adults that supplied the booze, the houses and the cars that allowed these binging teens to attend a series of parties and get form place to place. Ever heard of contributing to the delinquency of a minor, DUI by consent laws. I'll bet there are ten to twelve adults that provided logistical support or worse to these parties in one form or another that should not be allowed to walk away scott free.

i agree... and i hope the victim sues each and everyone of them for millions.

Thank you, but criminal charges should not be out of the question either.

agreed.... but a slap on the wrist is not good enough in my opinion.

a few million out of each of their parental skins will hurt far worse.