Ok, if it's not heredity...

[Anguille]

Stupid people need to be nurtured to reach their full potential just like anybody else.

 

[Valerie]

Besides which, those aren't even facts. They're opinions of other people.

It's a scientific study from Yale University published in American Psychologist in 2005.

There are over two pages of references at the end of the article.

 

[Anguille]

At best I would say race a circumstantial factor...

You can say whatever you like, but it doesn't make it true. No matter how badly you WANT it to be true.

You know, statistics show that African Americans make up much greater percentage of the NBA than they do the general population. But this is merely a correlation, it doesn't prove causation. At best, I would say race is merely a circumstantial factor.

I thought you don't believe in race, I thought you prefered breed?

 

[xotoxi]

Parents need to do a better job of encouraging education.

Good point.

And I love the loop of wretching Jim Carrey.

 

[Ravi]

You know, I keep reading this over and over, that "some" people are repressing information that proves that some races are less intelligent than others. Who are these people? I want to see some quotes, xhead...otherwise you are just being a troll.

You calling me a troll?

That's rich.

I've posted several links, even referenced a book. If you can't read, that is not my fault.

(BTW, you're a closeted racist. Just so you know.)

You posted a few links saying that "some" people aren't allowed to research racial differences because "some" other people stop them. I'd like to see the quotes of these people that are stopping them. And yes, if you can't produce them you are a troll and intellectually dishonest.

 

[Ravi]

Let's assume for a moment that despite SOOOO many obvious physical differences between races that race has nothing to do with anything...

Then why DO we see differences in things like standardized testing, prison population, etc?

using your logic, and rightwing logic, we could look at state level SAT scores, and conclude that rural red states are dumber than blue coastal states. Because most rural red state score below average on SATs....even those with mostly white populations - west virginia and oklahoma.

So do you think people are inherently more stupid in most rural red states? I mean, standardizd testing "proves" it, if we accept rightwing logic.


of course you don't. The environment people live in, and biases in testing materials and procedures affect test scores.

Good point, RD.

 

[Ravi]

You're not going to find those statistics anywhere except in very small population centers like Iceland. The best you can hope for is to look at the population and the number of children being born for a given region. You've got a circular argument going here based on a faulty assertion.

I looked at the Census data that you presented showing that Hispanics have households that are nearly twice the size of whites and blacks.

However, looking at the breakdown by age shows that they have twice the number of children living in the house AND twice the number of adults.

This likely means that extended families are living together...and I cannot see any way that one can extrapolate from the data presented that Hispanics are overbreeding.

If the number of adults living in these households were the same as those in white and black households, but the number of children were double, then you may have an argument.

Look at the data again:

http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/cps2004/tabAVG1.csv

It shows that the number of people in Hispanic households UNDER 18 is about double.

However, this was just in response to what Ravi said. She was the one who made the assertion and I was just providing data to back up that assertion.

Are you claiming Hispanics engage in incest? Are you claiming Hispanics are stupider than other ethnic groups? Why, exactly, can't you say what you mean? And what does the fact that Hispanics at this point in time have big families mean? Can you actually bring yourself to answer a question?

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, have YOU ever been to WV? Have you ever been to England?

I get so sick of silver spoon rich shits saying bigoted crap about people they would never stoop to meet.

One of my best friends is from West Virgina.

Dumbass. What I asked is if you had ever been there.

Apparently not. So per usual, you're just spreading bigotry about a group of people you think little of, but don't actually know.

Ravi, you're disgusting. You're so fucking elitist it fucking hurts. Your assumption that everybody else is of less value than you are, and your assumptions about groups of people that you've never interacted with stinks to high fucking heaven.

That's interesting, Babble, because you have no problem NOT jumping on people that say blacks are mentally inferior but you are all over me for saying people in West Virginia might be because they are inbred.

Why is that, Babble?

 

[Ravi]

"James D. Watson, 79, co-discoverer of the DNA helix and winner of the 1962 Nobel Prize in medicine, told the Sunday Times of London that he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours — whereas all the testing says not really."

He recognized that the prevailing belief was that all human groups are equal, but that "people who have to deal with black employees find this not true."
FOXNews.com - DNA Discoverer: Blacks Less Intelligent Than Whites - Science News | Science & Technology | Technology News
Links, quotes, the whole shebang.

Thanks for proving my point you hypocrite. I'm really disappointed that you actually are as much of a hypocrite as you project.

 

[Ravi]

So what are you suggesting then? That we focus education more on the basics and less on the touchy feely things like tolerance?

Why not both...and the arts, because creativity is also good for the brain. Why do you hate touchy feely?

Ravs, I think you might be a closet progressive.

Way to hit below the belt...and I will not, I repeat not, ever own a pit bull.

 

[Anguille]

Okay. Show me the stats that correlate specific genomic differences between whites and blacks to their differences in SAT scores and imprisonment rates.

There isn't any that I'm aware of. But I also don't recall making any claim regarding specific genomic differences. I'm merely referring to the statistical disparities on standardized testing between peoples of different ethnic origins.

The data actually exists, but most people either don't want to talk about it or can't. Here's a great editorial from a few years back that discusses the problems that people who study this are facing today:

According to an editorial in the British paper The Independent, a fear of offending members of historically stigmatized racial groups has prevented us from confronting the evidence that tiny genetic variations do actually account for real physical and behavioral differences. "We have gone from one kind of ignorance and prejudice to another without walking the road of good sense," wrote the anonymous commentator. "There are important biological differences that distinguish groups and individuals within groups. Vastly more African American men have prostate cancer than do white men. British Asians have significantly higher rates of heart disease...If gene research is only allowed among white groups, important breakthroughs will only be available to them, too."

Not to explore genetic differences and genes responsible for certain diseases that afflict different ethnic grips, is, as London Times journalist Anjana Ahuja writes, "to leave ethnic groups in the grip of disease for the sake of political correctness."

Entine, author of Taboo: Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We Are Afraid to Talk About It, makes a similar point. "Although we share a common humanity, we are different in critical ways such as our genetic susceptibility to diseases," he says. "For instance, blacks are genetically predisposed to contracting colo-rectal cancer; Eurasian whites are genetically prone to multiple sclerosis -- and Asians are by and large victims of neither. The problem with Clinton's pandering to political correctness is that it threatens confidence in the life-saving aspects of the genetic revolution."

While genetic research may reveal more variation within the human family than many may wish to acknowledge, it can also demonstrate specific genetic advantages that certain populations may have, possibly yielding discoveries that could benefit humankind as a whole. Yet, scholars argue, many people seem more comfortable with the notion of genetically-determined diseases than they are with the idea that particular groups may also possess specific genetic gifts.

...

trinicenter.com - Studying Genetic Differences in Races

I always wonder how these studies account for the fact that many people are biracial, even triracial, without even knowing it.

 

[Anguille]

using your logic, and rightwing logic, we could look at state level SAT scores, and conclude that rural red states are dumber than blue coastal states. Because most rural red state score below average on SATs....even those with mostly white populations - west virginia and oklahoma.

So do you think people are inherently more stupid in most rural red states? I mean, standardizd testing "proves" it, if we accept rightwing logic.


of course you don't. The environment people live in, and biases in testing materials and procedures affect test scores.

yet you have stated before that people in red states are stupid. She didn't use rightwing logic.

People in rightwing states are stupider because their schools suck.

Not because of their southern heritage and identity.


If you rightwingers want to claim standardized test scores prove blacks are dumber, then you're going to have to stick by your logic and admit red staters are dumber. Even white red staters.

If not, then you're being hypocrites, and your entire argument relies on racism and ignorance.

My position is consistent....people who have crappy schools and underfunded educational systems get lower test scores. Inners city blacks, or poor rural whites. Doesn't matter. Its environment to a large degree.


that's my postion.


Your position, if your honest and consistent, and not being deceptive and fraudulent, is that test scores prove blacks, AND rural southern whites are inherently dumber.


I can't believe you would stick by that arguent, but you've painted yourself into that corner by obsessing about test results.

LOL! Foisted on their own petard.

 

[Anguille]

Ravi, have YOU ever been to WV? Have you ever been to England?

I get so sick of silver spoon rich shits saying bigoted crap about people they would never stoop to meet.

One of my best friends is from West Virgina.

Dumbass. What I asked is if you had ever been there.

Apparently not. So per usual, you're just spreading bigotry about a group of people you think little of, but don't actually know.

Ravi, you're disgusting. You're so fucking elitist it fucking hurts. Your assumption that everybody else is of less value than you are, and your assumptions about groups of people that you've never interacted with stinks to high fucking heaven.

Will she go to hell now?

 

[Anguille]

Why not both...and the arts, because creativity is also good for the brain. Why do you hate touchy feely?

Ravs, I think you might be a closet progressive.

Way to hit below the belt...and I will not, I repeat not, ever own a pit bull.

I'm relieved for the sake of pit bulls.

 

[Valerie]

One of my best friends is from West Virgina.

Dumbass. What I asked is if you had ever been there.

Apparently not. So per usual, you're just spreading bigotry about a group of people you think little of, but don't actually know.

Ravi, you're disgusting. You're so fucking elitist it fucking hurts. Your assumption that everybody else is of less value than you are, and your assumptions about groups of people that you've never interacted with stinks to high fucking heaven.

Will she go to hell now?

I don't really see what Allie is going on about. The joke about inbreeding in WV?

 

[manifold]

btw, at one time the Irish were look on in much the same manner...as unintelligent, among other things. That didn't exactly hold true, did it? Unless you believe that they bred with some other group and evolved...lol.

Really? There was statistical data that suggested the Irish were less intelligent? I honestly didn't know that. I also can't find anything to support your claim online. Can you provide me with a link?

 

[Ravi]

btw, at one time the Irish were look on in much the same manner...as unintelligent, among other things. That didn't exactly hold true, did it? Unless you believe that they bred with some other group and evolved...lol.

Really? There was statistical data that suggested the Irish were less intelligent? I honestly didn't know that. I also can't find anything to support your claim online. Can you provide me with a link?

No, dillhole...people THOUGHT those things, there was no statistical evidence and yet people still made those connections.

 

[manifold]

btw, at one time the Irish were look on in much the same manner...as unintelligent, among other things. That didn't exactly hold true, did it? Unless you believe that they bred with some other group and evolved...lol.

Really? There was statistical data that suggested the Irish were less intelligent? I honestly didn't know that. I also can't find anything to support your claim online. Can you provide me with a link?

No, dillhole...people THOUGHT those things, there was no statistical evidence and yet people still made those connections.

Ok, so it's a bullshit analogy. Got it.

 

[Ravi]

Really? There was statistical data that suggested the Irish were less intelligent? I honestly didn't know that. I also can't find anything to support your claim online. Can you provide me with a link?

No, dillhole...people THOUGHT those things, there was no statistical evidence and yet people still made those connections.

Ok, so it's a bullshit analogy. Got it.

Not at all. My point was that people, just like you, decided...with nothing to support their views but conventional wisdom...that the Irish were genetically stupid. Ditto with many other minority groups...and ditto with the notion that black people are genetically better at sports.

 

[manifold]

No, dillhole...people THOUGHT those things, there was no statistical evidence and yet people still made those connections.

Ok, so it's a bullshit analogy. Got it.

Not at all. My point was that people, just like you, decided...with nothing to support their views but conventional wisdom...that the Irish were genetically stupid. Ditto with many other minority groups...and ditto with the notion that black people are genetically better at sports.

So conventional wisdom equals statistical evidence?

Sorry dumbass. Bullshit analogy...FAIL!