Once again pointing out the elephant in the room

[Fenton Lum]

Distrusting big government doesn't mean conservatives want no government.

Never said they did.

My point is that as hatred and distrust against the state grows, so does our collective consciousness. Anyone that dislikes the government even a little is a natural ally of the anarchist.

Hardly, we just turn on each other as programmed.

 

[Onyx]

The founders created taxation with representation.

I disagree, but what does that have to do with social contract theory.

The founding fathers never instituted an income tax by the way.

You do have an option available to you. Actually several, but only one doesn't land you in jail

I choose the one where I proudly declare to all, "Fuck the system!"

 

[Pop23]

It would occur to me that any group of people that wish to live in common will have the shared cost of that arrangement.

Call it taxes, fees or shared labor. It is simply sharing that cost.

So be it.

 

[Ringel05]

You made the claim you back it up, that's the way it works, basically put up or shut up.

I do not play the impossible burden of proof game on the internet. Proof on the internet is a link war.

If you do not like it, then take your whining somewhere else.

Sooooooo, you're God and I'm supposed to believe you....... Buddy you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.
Oh just in case you haven't a clue (why am I saying just in case......), history was one of my minors and a passion for me.........

 

[Rustic]

Thomas Jefferson on the evils of wealth inequality, and how it can be mitigated through progressive taxation:

I asked myself what could be the reason that so many should be permitted to beg who are willing to work, in a country where there is a very considerable proportion of uncultivated lands? These lands are kept idle mostly for the sake of game. It should seem then that it must be because of the enormous wealth of the proprietors which places them above attention to the increase of their revenues by permitting these lands to be laboured. I am conscious that an equal division of property is impracticable. But the consequences of this enormous inequality producing so much misery to the bulk of mankind, legislators cannot invent too many devices for subdividing property, only taking care to let their subdivisions go hand in hand with the natural affections of the human mind. The descent of property of every kind therefore to all the children, or to all the brothers and sisters, or other relations in equal degree is a politic measure, and a practicable one. Another means of silently lessening the inequality of property is to exempt all from taxation below a certain point, and to tax the higher portions of property in geometrical progression as they rise. Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right.

Equality: Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

Socialism has never been the answer to anything reasonable

 

[Onyx]

Hardly, we just turn on each other as programmed.

Agreed that we are conditioned to make enemies of each other, but there is a flaw in the system.

Differing special interests among the ruling class leads to criticism of different aspects of the machine. Those that can enlighten themselves to the hypocripsy taking place on both sides often turn over to libertarian ideals, like anarchism.

 

[Rustic]

There is no difference between a state and a street gang. T

Sure there is. Street gangs don't provide goods and services.

I like drinking clean water and driving on safe roads and knowing that the infrastructure is there that allows me to live in a civilized society. And I don't mind paying reasonable taxes to get that.

There's no such thing as a reasonable tax, When the federal government is involved. Fact

 

[Onyx]

Sooooooo, you're God and I'm supposed to believe you....... Buddy you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

It means that like any intelligent conversation, you should challenge me if you believe I am wrong.

Not emplace an intellectually dishonest impossible burden of proof.

Oh just in case you haven't a clue (why am I saying just in case......), history was one of my minors and a passion for me.........

A passion of mine as well.

Let's not pat ourselves on the backs though.

 

[Onyx]

It would occur to me that any group of people that wish to live in common will have the shared cost of that arrangement.

Call it taxes, fees or shared labor. It is simply sharing that cost.

So be it.

Hey mate, people can coexist without having to pay for each others shit.

We can also collectively organize and form institutions without establishing a government bureau to steal from everybody.

 

[Rustic]

False.

Street gangs protect the businesses in their racket and often put money back into their turf.

No, they don't. Making you pay them not to mess up your business is not a service.

Me too.

Little things the government steals your money to pay for, to distract from the fucked up evil reality of what is going on behind the scenes.

The only thing going on behind the scenes is you not taking your medications like the nice doctor told you to... but he's probably in on the conspiracy.

Why not do so voluntarily?

The problem is that individuals are punished for not paying taxes. That is the root of the problem.

Because, shit, if I could get all those things for free, I'd totally do that, too. So would a lot of people.

Taxes make it fair. Everyone should pay their fair share. The rich should pay more, the poor should pay less.

Now, I'd be for simplifying taxes. I do think that we should get rid of stealth taxes and taxes on activities like driving or drinking. I think we should just have straight up income tax, one single deduction, from your paycheck, every week. Then we could have more honest discussions on how much we are paying and what we are actually paying for.

But the right wing hippies known as Libertarians are not going to be part of that discussion.

Progressive tax, is just another word for punishing the successful. Were a few people are deciding the financial affairs of everybody. There's no fairness in that... lol

 

[Ringel05]

Sooooooo, you're God and I'm supposed to believe you....... Buddy you're so full of shit your eyes are brown.

It means that like any intelligent conversation, you should challenge me you know I am wrong.

Not emplace an intellectually dishonest impossible burden of proof.

Oh just in case you haven't a clue (why am I saying just in case......), history was one of my minors and a passion for me.........

A passion of mine as well.

Let's not pat ourselves on the backs though.

May be a passion of yours but obviously you lack the discipline to determine real cause and effect, one of the keystones to understanding history.
Still deflecting though, ideologues like you can't help it, it's in your blood.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh, my.

 

[Onyx]

May be a passion of yours but obviously you lack the discipline to determine real cause and effect, one of the keystones to understanding history.
Still deflecting though, ideologues like you can't help it, it's in your blood.

Sure buddy. Be sure to come back when you are ready to debate and stop giving in-depth critiques of my intelligence.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Hardly, we just turn on each other as programmed.

Agreed that we are conditioned to make enemies of each other, but there is a flaw in the system.

Differing special interests among the ruling class leads to criticism of different aspects of the machine. Those that can enlighten themselves to the hypocripsy taking place on both sides often turn over to libertarian ideals, like anarchism.

Nah, another false answer to nothing.

 

[Ringel05]

May be a passion of yours but obviously you lack the discipline to determine real cause and effect, one of the keystones to understanding history.
Still deflecting though, ideologues like you can't help it, it's in your blood.

Sure buddy. Be sure to come back when you are ready to debate and stop giving in-depth critiques of my intelligence.

Debate? You have to present facts for that to happen not just your say so. Figure that out and then we can have a real debate otherwise deal with the applicable (and deserved) scorn and derision.

 

[bendog]

The founders created taxation with representation.

I disagree, but what does that have to do with social contract theory.

The founding fathers never instituted an income tax by the way.

You do have an option available to you. Actually several, but only one doesn't land you in jail

I choose the one where I proudly declare to all, "Fuck the system!"

The Founders provided a state where if you don't pay taxes levied by the legislature, you go to jail. You can always move. But more constructively, it seems clear that a supermajority believes that the tax system is not fair because the rich don't pay; the fed govt spends too much, although the consensus is probably more on for aide than social spending. Yet we seem unable to elect anyone who believes that.

 

[Fenton Lum]

False.

Street gangs protect the businesses in their racket and often put money back into their turf.

No, they don't. Making you pay them not to mess up your business is not a service.

Me too.

Little things the government steals your money to pay for, to distract from the fucked up evil reality of what is going on behind the scenes.

The only thing going on behind the scenes is you not taking your medications like the nice doctor told you to... but he's probably in on the conspiracy.

Why not do so voluntarily?

The problem is that individuals are punished for not paying taxes. That is the root of the problem.

Because, shit, if I could get all those things for free, I'd totally do that, too. So would a lot of people.

Taxes make it fair. Everyone should pay their fair share. The rich should pay more, the poor should pay less.

Now, I'd be for simplifying taxes. I do think that we should get rid of stealth taxes and taxes on activities like driving or drinking. I think we should just have straight up income tax, one single deduction, from your paycheck, every week. Then we could have more honest discussions on how much we are paying and what we are actually paying for.

But the right wing hippies known as Libertarians are not going to be part of that discussion.

Progressive tax, is just another word for punishing the successful. Were a few people are deciding the financial affairs of everybody. There's no fairness in that... lol

And you think trading that for corporate power goes somewhere good. 'Cause you got all kinds a representation in that world. Where do yo think an awful lot of legislation comes from?

 

[Fenton Lum]

May be a passion of yours but obviously you lack the discipline to determine real cause and effect, one of the keystones to understanding history.
Still deflecting though, ideologues like you can't help it, it's in your blood.

Sure buddy. Be sure to come back when you are ready to debate and stop giving in-depth critiques of my intelligence.

There was no debate here.

 

[kaz]

May be a passion of yours but obviously you lack the discipline to determine real cause and effect, one of the keystones to understanding history.
Still deflecting though, ideologues like you can't help it, it's in your blood.

Sure buddy. Be sure to come back when you are ready to debate and stop giving in-depth critiques of my intelligence.

When he is "ready to debate?" That's you, Holmes

 

[Rustic]

False.

Street gangs protect the businesses in their racket and often put money back into their turf.

No, they don't. Making you pay them not to mess up your business is not a service.

Me too.

Little things the government steals your money to pay for, to distract from the fucked up evil reality of what is going on behind the scenes.

The only thing going on behind the scenes is you not taking your medications like the nice doctor told you to... but he's probably in on the conspiracy.

Why not do so voluntarily?

The problem is that individuals are punished for not paying taxes. That is the root of the problem.

Because, shit, if I could get all those things for free, I'd totally do that, too. So would a lot of people.

Taxes make it fair. Everyone should pay their fair share. The rich should pay more, the poor should pay less.

Now, I'd be for simplifying taxes. I do think that we should get rid of stealth taxes and taxes on activities like driving or drinking. I think we should just have straight up income tax, one single deduction, from your paycheck, every week. Then we could have more honest discussions on how much we are paying and what we are actually paying for.

But the right wing hippies known as Libertarians are not going to be part of that discussion.

Progressive tax, is just another word for punishing the successful. Were a few people are deciding the financial affairs of everybody. There's no fairness in that... lol

And you think trading that for corporate power goes somewhere good. 'Cause you got all kinds a representation in that world. Where do yo think an awful lot of legislation comes from?

Progressive fuck ups think everything is theirs that is really someone else's… Fact