Opponents in LGBT case agree: It's not about wedding cake

[SassyIrishLass]

Does a Jewish liberal sign maker have a right to turn down Nazis that want pro fascist signs made for them? They SHOULD have that discretion. Why not?

Is Nazism a religion? Is it a race? Is it a sexual orientation?

Which law says that Nazi's rights must be protected?

Answer the question, under PA laws does the Jewish sign maker have to do it?

If you understood PA laws you would know.

But a Jew would be required to make a sign from a Christian that said "Jews killed Jesus"

Because the law protects the rights of Christian customers.

Answer the question and save your deflection.

Question answered- your ignorance of PA laws is not my problem

You're the ignorant one. You're also cornered like a rat

 

[MaryL]

Does a Jewish liberal sign maker have a right to turn down Nazis that want pro fascist signs made for them? They SHOULD have that discretion. Why not?

Is Nazism a religion? Is it a race? Is it a sexual orientation?

Which law says that Nazi's rights must be protected?

1st amendment. Freedom of speech? Ever hear of that? So, the question remains...Gays and Nazis have the same rights.

Public Accommodations laws? Ever heard of them? So the question remains- what part of the public accommodation laws says that Nazi's must be served?

i am playing the devils advocate here, folks. I despise Nazis, it's that I pick them as the popular whipping boy we all despise. But how does public accommodation laws exclude Nazis?

Because public accommodation laws don't name them.

Why did public accommodation laws include blacks and Jews?

So we CAN pick and choose whom we want included on arbitrary lists because that's oh so fair. OK, I will have to think that through a little more.

 

[Syriusly]

Is Nazism a religion? Is it a race? Is it a sexual orientation?

Which law says that Nazi's rights must be protected?

Answer the question, under PA laws does the Jewish sign maker have to do it?

If you understood PA laws you would know.

But a Jew would be required to make a sign from a Christian that said "Jews killed Jesus"

Because the law protects the rights of Christian customers.

Answer the question and save your deflection.

Question answered- your ignorance of PA laws is not my problem

You're the ignorant one. You're also cornered like a rat

And by 'cornered like a rat' you mean I know the actual laws we are speaking of - and you don't so you are stamping your feet?

LOL

 

[Cecilie1200]

They don't want to be left alone. They want to be lauded and approved of and told how wonderfully normal they are, because they're not able to feel way on their own.

I don't find LGBTs to want to be "lauded and approved of" more than anyone else. They just live their lives, the same as you and me.

I don't seek out gay people and try to force them to associate with me, under threat of lawsuit if necessary. .

And amazingly gay people are not seeking out non-gay people and trying to force them to associate with them either.

But gay Americans have the right to protection under the PA laws just the same as Christians do, and just the same as Jews do.

Amazing if this was about Jews- trying to force Christians to associate with them- because the Christian owner refused to sell a wedding cake to a Jew.

Excuse me, but WHAT do you think this thread is about, dimwit? Are we not talking about a gay couple using their "wedding" as an opportunity to seek out a Christian baker and try to force him to participate in the event against his will, to the point of taking him to court? Did I misunderstand the story, or are you just so busy spinning you've gotten dizzy and lost track of the topic?

This isn't about Christians reserving a treasured right to themselves and trying to deny it to gays. Nobody but gays and other fringe leftist protected groups give a shit about the vaunted "right to force people to serve me". This is about whether the government has any business passing laws forcing private citizens to do things in business that they don't want to do. I can assure you that Christians and Jews and whomever else you'd like to throw out do not seek out businesses run by people who do not like them and try to demand service. We just avoid those people and take our money to other businesses and go the fuck on with our lives.

It WOULD be amazing if this was about Jews, because as I said, Jews don't make a habit of frequenting, deliberately or otherwise, the businesses of anti-Semites. They just ignore them and go do business with people who like Jews.

You do understand the responsibilities that go with having a business license, don't you? These people advertise their businesses. And I bet this business is incorporated. Corporations are on-paper entities. They do not have a religion.

Yes, I do. Do YOU? There is nothing about doing business, or advertising your business, or incorporating your business, that implies that you can and should be forced to enter into business transactions you don't want.

ALL businesses are on-paper entities. That's what a business license IS. Doesn't mean that they aren't owned and run by humans, who DO have religions.

 

[Syriusly]

Is Nazism a religion? Is it a race? Is it a sexual orientation?

Which law says that Nazi's rights must be protected?

1st amendment. Freedom of speech? Ever hear of that? So, the question remains...Gays and Nazis have the same rights.

Public Accommodations laws? Ever heard of them? So the question remains- what part of the public accommodation laws says that Nazi's must be served?

i am playing the devils advocate here, folks. I despise Nazis, it's that I pick them as the popular whipping boy we all despise. But how does public accommodation laws exclude Nazis?

Because public accommodation laws don't name them.

Why did public accommodation laws include blacks and Jews?

So we CAN pick and choose whom we want included on arbitrary lists because that's oh so fair. OK, I will have to think that through a little more.

Well since these laws have been in effect since 1964- how many more decades do you think you will need to think on them?

 

[rightwinger]

Just as soon as they leave others alone. There would be no court case if same sex couples had not forced specialty services from someone who didn't want to provide that service.

Why don't gays agree to the grand bargain? You leave others alone and others will leave you alone.

They don't want to be left alone. They want to be lauded and approved of and told how wonderfully normal they are, because they're not able to feel way on their own.

I don't find LGBTs to want to be "lauded and approved of" more than anyone else. They just live their lives, the same as you and me.

I don't seek out gay people and try to force them to associate with me, under threat of lawsuit if necessary. .

And amazingly gay people are not seeking out non-gay people and trying to force them to associate with them either.

But gay Americans have the right to protection under the PA laws just the same as Christians do, and just the same as Jews do.

Amazing if this was about Jews- trying to force Christians to associate with them- because the Christian owner refused to sell a wedding cake to a Jew.

Excuse me, but WHAT do you think this thread is about, dimwit? Are we not talking about a gay couple using their "wedding" as an opportunity to seek out a Christian baker and try to force him to participate in the event against his will, to the point of taking him to court? Did I misunderstand the story, or are you just so busy spinning you've gotten dizzy and lost track of the topic?

This isn't about Christians reserving a treasured right to themselves and trying to deny it to gays. Nobody but gays and other fringe leftist protected groups give a shit about the vaunted "right to force people to serve me". This is about whether the government has any business passing laws forcing private citizens to do things in business that they don't want to do. I can assure you that Christians and Jews and whomever else you'd like to throw out do not seek out businesses run by people who do not like them and try to demand service. We just avoid those people and take our money to other businesses and go the fuck on with our lives.

It WOULD be amazing if this was about Jews, because as I said, Jews don't make a habit of frequenting, deliberately or otherwise, the businesses of anti-Semites. They just ignore them and go do business with people who like Jews.

He doesn't have to participate in the event
He can just drop the cake off and leave

 

[MaryL]

Let's don't go nuts here. I want everyone here to have a long healthy and happy life. Please. Put things in perspective. I am no fan of homosexuals, but I won't abide persecution of them. But on the other hand, I won't let people with broken sexuality dictate norms, either. No cake for you.

 

[Syriusly]

I don't find LGBTs to want to be "lauded and approved of" more than anyone else. They just live their lives, the same as you and me.

I don't seek out gay people and try to force them to associate with me, under threat of lawsuit if necessary. .

And amazingly gay people are not seeking out non-gay people and trying to force them to associate with them either.

But gay Americans have the right to protection under the PA laws just the same as Christians do, and just the same as Jews do.

Amazing if this was about Jews- trying to force Christians to associate with them- because the Christian owner refused to sell a wedding cake to a Jew.

Excuse me, but WHAT do you think this thread is about, dimwit? Are we not talking about a gay couple using their "wedding" as an opportunity to seek out a Christian baker and try to force him to participate in the event against his will, to the point of taking him to court? Did I misunderstand the story, or are you just so busy spinning you've gotten dizzy and lost track of the topic?

This isn't about Christians reserving a treasured right to themselves and trying to deny it to gays. Nobody but gays and other fringe leftist protected groups give a shit about the vaunted "right to force people to serve me". This is about whether the government has any business passing laws forcing private citizens to do things in business that they don't want to do. I can assure you that Christians and Jews and whomever else you'd like to throw out do not seek out businesses run by people who do not like them and try to demand service. We just avoid those people and take our money to other businesses and go the fuck on with our lives.

It WOULD be amazing if this was about Jews, because as I said, Jews don't make a habit of frequenting, deliberately or otherwise, the businesses of anti-Semites. They just ignore them and go do business with people who like Jews.

You do understand the responsibilities that go with having a business license, don't you? These people advertise their businesses. And I bet this business is incorporated. Corporations are on-paper entities. They do not have a religion.

Yes, I do. Do YOU? There is nothing about doing business, or advertising your business, or incorporating your business, that implies that you can and should be forced to enter into business transactions you don't want..

Except of course business's do have to follow the states regulations.

Why don't you believe in State's rights?

Except when they put up this sign?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

I don't seek out gay people and try to force them to associate with me, under threat of lawsuit if necessary. .

And amazingly gay people are not seeking out non-gay people and trying to force them to associate with them either.

But gay Americans have the right to protection under the PA laws just the same as Christians do, and just the same as Jews do.

Amazing if this was about Jews- trying to force Christians to associate with them- because the Christian owner refused to sell a wedding cake to a Jew.

Excuse me, but WHAT do you think this thread is about, dimwit? Are we not talking about a gay couple using their "wedding" as an opportunity to seek out a Christian baker and try to force him to participate in the event against his will, to the point of taking him to court? Did I misunderstand the story, or are you just so busy spinning you've gotten dizzy and lost track of the topic?

This isn't about Christians reserving a treasured right to themselves and trying to deny it to gays. Nobody but gays and other fringe leftist protected groups give a shit about the vaunted "right to force people to serve me". This is about whether the government has any business passing laws forcing private citizens to do things in business that they don't want to do. I can assure you that Christians and Jews and whomever else you'd like to throw out do not seek out businesses run by people who do not like them and try to demand service. We just avoid those people and take our money to other businesses and go the fuck on with our lives.

It WOULD be amazing if this was about Jews, because as I said, Jews don't make a habit of frequenting, deliberately or otherwise, the businesses of anti-Semites. They just ignore them and go do business with people who like Jews.

You do understand the responsibilities that go with having a business license, don't you? These people advertise their businesses. And I bet this business is incorporated. Corporations are on-paper entities. They do not have a religion.

Yes, I do. Do YOU? There is nothing about doing business, or advertising your business, or incorporating your business, that implies that you can and should be forced to enter into business transactions you don't want..

Except of course business's do have to follow the states regulations.

Why don't you believe in State's rights?

Except when they put up this sign?

Being black is not a behavior. Being gay is not a behavior. Engaging in gay acts is a behavior. Demanding that others accept gay behavior as normal is a behavior.

 

[Syriusly]

Let's don't go nuts here. I want everyone here to have a long healthy and happy life. Please. Put things in perspective. I am no fan of homosexuals, but I won't abide persecution of them. But on the other hand, I won't let people with broken sexuality dictate norms, either. No cake for you.

In all 50 states- public accommodation laws tell business's that they cannot refuse to sell to a Christian for their religion.

IN a few states- public accommodation laws tell business's that they cannot refuse to sell to a person based upon their sexual orientation.

If as a society we decide to end public accommodation laws- then so be it.

But as long as we have them- then bake the damn cake.

 

[Syriusly]

And amazingly gay people are not seeking out non-gay people and trying to force them to associate with them either.

But gay Americans have the right to protection under the PA laws just the same as Christians do, and just the same as Jews do.

Amazing if this was about Jews- trying to force Christians to associate with them- because the Christian owner refused to sell a wedding cake to a Jew.

Excuse me, but WHAT do you think this thread is about, dimwit? Are we not talking about a gay couple using their "wedding" as an opportunity to seek out a Christian baker and try to force him to participate in the event against his will, to the point of taking him to court? Did I misunderstand the story, or are you just so busy spinning you've gotten dizzy and lost track of the topic?

This isn't about Christians reserving a treasured right to themselves and trying to deny it to gays. Nobody but gays and other fringe leftist protected groups give a shit about the vaunted "right to force people to serve me". This is about whether the government has any business passing laws forcing private citizens to do things in business that they don't want to do. I can assure you that Christians and Jews and whomever else you'd like to throw out do not seek out businesses run by people who do not like them and try to demand service. We just avoid those people and take our money to other businesses and go the fuck on with our lives.

It WOULD be amazing if this was about Jews, because as I said, Jews don't make a habit of frequenting, deliberately or otherwise, the businesses of anti-Semites. They just ignore them and go do business with people who like Jews.

You do understand the responsibilities that go with having a business license, don't you? These people advertise their businesses. And I bet this business is incorporated. Corporations are on-paper entities. They do not have a religion.

Yes, I do. Do YOU? There is nothing about doing business, or advertising your business, or incorporating your business, that implies that you can and should be forced to enter into business transactions you don't want..

Except of course business's do have to follow the states regulations.

Why don't you believe in State's rights?

Except when they put up this sign?

Being black is not a behavior. Being gay is not a behavior. Engaging in gay acts is a behavior. Demanding that others accept gay behavior as normal is a behavior.

Well thanks.

Public Accommodation laws of course deal with behavior- the behavior of shop owners in refusing to sell to black, Jews, women or gays.

 

[Lysistrata]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

 

[Lysistrata]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

Why do you do this? This has nothing to do with any relationship with a Supreme Being. It's made up out of hate papered over with a picture of Jesus. Stop trying to turn religion into a shit hole. It's supposed to better than that.

 

[Syriusly]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

How about we just lecture them that they should follow the law?

Like the Bible tells them to?

Christians Should Obey the Law
13 All of you must yield to the government rulers. No one rules unless God has given him the power to rule, and no one rules now without that power from God. 2 So those who are against the government are really against what God has commanded. And they will bring punishment on themselves. 3 Those who do right do not have to fear the rulers; only those who do wrong fear them. Do you want to be unafraid of the rulers? Then do what is right, and they will praise you. 4 The ruler is God’s servant to help you. But if you do wrong, then be afraid. He has the power to punish; he is God’s servant to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must yield to the government, not only because you might be punished, but because you know it is right.

 

[Cecilie1200]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

Why do you do this? This has nothing to do with any relationship with a Supreme Being. It's made up out of hate papered over with a picture of Jesus. Stop trying to turn religion into a shit hole. It's supposed to better than that.

Why do I do what? Suggest that other people's beliefs are not subject to your approval? I do it because they aren't. No one really gives a shit what you think of their beliefs and how they practice them. "It's made out of hate" is your opinion, and no one asked you for it. I think your opinion of Christians is made out of hate papered over with "rights", so how quickly do you plan to change YOUR behavior to suit my opinion of it?

Stop trying to turn religion into your personal playground. You're not God; He's DEFINITELY better than that.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Lol ...
.

 

[Lysistrata]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

Why do you do this? This has nothing to do with any relationship with a Supreme Being. It's made up out of hate papered over with a picture of Jesus. Stop trying to turn religion into a shit hole. It's supposed to better than that.

Why do I do what? Suggest that other people's beliefs are not subject to your approval? I do it because they aren't. No one really gives a shit what you think of their beliefs and how they practice them. "It's made out of hate" is your opinion, and no one asked you for it. I think your opinion of Christians is made out of hate papered over with "rights", so how quickly do you plan to change YOUR behavior to suit my opinion of it?

Stop trying to turn religion into your personal playground. You're not God; He's DEFINITELY better than that.

Why should any of us give a shit about your "Christian" beliefs? Frankie Graham, maybe? Dobson? We don't all have to go along with your bullshit. I have a great respect for some Christians, but absolutely no respect for others.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

Why do you do this? This has nothing to do with any relationship with a Supreme Being. It's made up out of hate papered over with a picture of Jesus. Stop trying to turn religion into a shit hole. It's supposed to better than that.

Why do I do what? Suggest that other people's beliefs are not subject to your approval? I do it because they aren't. No one really gives a shit what you think of their beliefs and how they practice them. "It's made out of hate" is your opinion, and no one asked you for it. I think your opinion of Christians is made out of hate papered over with "rights", so how quickly do you plan to change YOUR behavior to suit my opinion of it?

Stop trying to turn religion into your personal playground. You're not God; He's DEFINITELY better than that.

Why should any of us give a shit about your "Christian" beliefs? Frankie Graham, maybe? Dobson? We don't all have to go along with your bullshit. I have a great respect for some Christians, but absolutely no respect for others.

Your problem being we Christians don't care what you think. Choose not to believe. It's your choice...but be tolerant of those that do.

 

[Lysistrata]

This whole thing against LGBTs is so stupid. Monumentally stupid. There is absolutely NOTHING in the religion of Jesus that calls for anyone to reject LGBTs or anyone else. It's made up. The Christian thing to do would be to bake the cake and present it to the couple with all good wishes.

Would it surprise you to know that you are not the universal spokesman for Christianity, and it's not your place to tell other people what they should and shouldn't believe?

Methinks someone who has so little understanding of the concept of a personal relationship with God really shouldn't be trying to lecture others on how to be Christian.

Why do you do this? This has nothing to do with any relationship with a Supreme Being. It's made up out of hate papered over with a picture of Jesus. Stop trying to turn religion into a shit hole. It's supposed to better than that.

Why do I do what? Suggest that other people's beliefs are not subject to your approval? I do it because they aren't. No one really gives a shit what you think of their beliefs and how they practice them. "It's made out of hate" is your opinion, and no one asked you for it. I think your opinion of Christians is made out of hate papered over with "rights", so how quickly do you plan to change YOUR behavior to suit my opinion of it?

Stop trying to turn religion into your personal playground. You're not God; He's DEFINITELY better than that.

Why should any of us give a shit about your "Christian" beliefs? Frankie Graham, maybe? Dobson? We don't all have to go along with your bullshit. I have a great respect for some Christians, but absolutely no respect for others.

Your problem being we Christians don't care what you think. Choose not to believe. It's your choice...but be tolerant of those that do.

But you are not a Christian, and you don't know what I believe anyway. I will not "tolerate" mistreatment of other people, though.