Oregon imposes gag order on Christian bakers in gay wedding case

[mikegriffith1]

Let's put it this way: If the roles were reversed and a state were fining a gay baker for refusing to bake a cake for a traditional wedding and were also ordering him not to even dare try to defend himself in public, I would be harshly condemning such fascist actions and would be defending the gay baker's right not to assist with a ceremony that he found offensive and his right to defend himself in the public arena. I would condemn the state's actions as un-American and fascist.

That's the difference between people who honor constitutional rights even when they disagree with how those rights are being used and the liberals on this board, who are only too happy to see the state punishing Christians for the "crime" of declining to service a ceremony that they find offensive and for daring to try to defend themselves on the air waves. Truly scary.

Liberals, your comparisons to denying service to blacks in restaurants, hotels, bathrooms, etc., are ridiculous, and you surely must know better. Eating a burger in a restaurant, renting a hotel room, or using a bathroom are not ceremonies. They are routine human actions. Marriage is a ceremony, a ceremony that many people do without but one that has profound spiritual meaning for many other people. In America, the state is not supposed to be able to punish you for not assisting with a ceremony that you find offensive, and it's not supposed to be able to order you not to try to defend yourself when it's punishing you for exercising basic constitutional rights.

You wanna know what kind of people in Germany enabled the Nazis to shut down Jewish businesses and then haul them off to concentration camps? People like the liberals on this board. That's who.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Liberals, your comparisons to denying service to blacks in restaurants, hotels, bathrooms, etc., are ridiculous, and you surely must know better. Eating a burger in a restaurant, renting a hotel room, or using a bathroom are not ceremonies. They are routine human actions. Marriage is a ceremony, a ceremony that many people do without but one that has profound spiritual meaning for many other people. In America, the state is not supposed to be able to punish you for not assisting with a ceremony that you find offensive, and it's not supposed to be able to order you not to try to defend yourself when it's punishing you for exercising basic constitutional rights.

.

Who says the state is not supposed to? Who says the gay couple doesn't value the 'profondity' of their wedding as much as anyone else?

There is no constitutional right to arbitrarily exempt yourself from obeying the law simply because you claim a religious belief against it.

 

[PostmodernProph]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

 

[dblack]

Liberals, your comparisons to denying service to blacks in restaurants, hotels, bathrooms, etc., are ridiculous, and you surely must know better. Eating a burger in a restaurant, renting a hotel room, or using a bathroom are not ceremonies. They are routine human actions. Marriage is a ceremony, a ceremony that many people do without but one that has profound spiritual meaning for many other people.

So what?

I appreciate your general position, but frankly, this is where you concede the argument.

 

[Seawytch]

...
The specific order reads: “The Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor and Industries hereby orders [Aaron and Melissa Klein] to cease and desist from publishing, circulating, issuing or displaying, or causing to be published … any communication to the effect that any of the accommodations … will be refused, withheld from or denied to, or that any discrimination be made against, any person on account of their sexual orientation.”
...

It always raises my eyebrows when I look up a story, like what was quoted here that was "the gag order" - and can only find it on circle-jerking right wing sites passing it around like gumballs.

I see much of it traces back the RWNJ's @ the Daily Signal.

Well, I went to find a legit source - a only then could I read the actual Final Order, which is here: http://www.oregon.gov/boli/SiteAssets/pages/press/Sweet Cakes FO.pdf

It's 122 pages long. Yow.

Soes... I'm looking for this "gag order" -- and I come across page 30, which brings up

this Oregon LAW:

"...it is an unlawful practice for any person acting on behalf of any place of public accommodation as defined in ORS 659A.400 (Place of public accommodation defined) to publish, circulate, issue or display, or cause to be published, circulated, issued or displayed, any communication, notice, advertisement or sign of any kind to the effect that any of the accommodations, advantages, facilities, services or privileges of the place of public accommodation will be refused, withheld from or denied to, or that any discrimination will be made against, any person on account of race, color, religion, sex, sexual orientation, national origin, marital status or age if the individual is 18 years of age or older. [Formerly 659.037; 2003 c.521 §3; 2005 c.131 §2; 2007 c.100 §7]

ORS 659A.409 - Notice that discrimination will be made in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes

It notes in the Final Order the Kleins are free to speak their minds and express their opinion all they want -- and even place the emphasis by underlining "on behalf" (of the business.).

From the Order:

"it does not cover expressions of personal opinion, political commentary, or other privileged communications unrelated to...the public accommodation."

So, what CONNIE dishrags are calling a GAG ORDER -- is actually Oregon Law that applies to all people who own public accommodations - and it dates back to a case 30 years ago where someone put up a sign saying "NO SHIRTS, SHOES, SERVICE, *******." (n-word)

The open to the public businesses in OR can't put up a sign or advertise : "we discriminate" basically - Just as the law is titled:

Notice that discrimination will be made in place of public accommodation prohibited - 2013 Oregon Revised Statutes

But that's really not a problem for the Klein's now, is it? They don't have a place of public accommodation anymore do they?

Don't like it? Change the law.

So, again, RWNJ's are playing the poor poor pityme dance, once again.

Boo Hoo.

Thank you for your informative, but (sadly) largely ignored post.

 

[Vandalshandle]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

No, I ignore people who threaten to kill me, on a public message board, and then have the nerve to cal themselves "Christians".

 

[Plasmaball]

The SC has already rejected such things. Obey the law, shut up and bake the cake.

Are you my EX wife? I ask because you sound like a real harpy.

If your ex-wife is even close to how smart I am it explains why you are divorced...

Frankly I'm surprised you can operate a computer or tie your shoe laces.

im surprised you dont go into a panic because you forget how to breathe.

Yeah well you are a liberal, top that insult.

you wear a helmet when you get on the internet so you dont bruise

 

[Silhouette]

Who says the state is not supposed to? Who says the gay couple doesn't value the 'profondity' of their wedding as much as anyone else?

There is no constitutional right to arbitrarily exempt yourself from obeying the law simply because you claim a religious belief against it.

Yes there is dearie. It's called the 1st Amendment, Jude 1 and Romans 1. The 9th Amendment says that your secular PA laws cannot diminish the 1st Amendment civil right to exercise of faith. Passively resisting participation is a civil right. Be careful, there are going to be new lawsuits of a different color. They will be about judges and other hate-speech officiandos who promote the suppression of this 1st Amendment civil right.

Stay tuned..

 

[Silhouette]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

No, I ignore people who threaten to kill me, on a public message board, and then have the nerve to cal themselves "Christians".

Or those who pose as Christians in a stage performance "threatening to kill you" in order drum up sympathy for the gay cult. Whichever..

 

[Vandalshandle]

My faith tells me that it is a sin to pay taxes to a government that uses the money to kill non combatants in foreign countries that are not art war with us. Therefore, it is unconstitutional for the government to deny my freedom of religion. I'm certain that they will understand this and honor my rights next April 15th.

 

[Vandalshandle]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

No, I ignore people who threaten to kill me, on a public message board, and then have the nerve to cal themselves "Christians".

Or those who pose as Christians in a stage performance "threatening to kill you" in order drum up sympathy for the gay cult. Whichever..

Well, I have no idea what that means, but it is every bit as unfathomable as most of your posts, so, roll on!

 

[The Irish Ram]

All things considered, I suspect that they would have been better off baking and selling the cake.....

That's liberals for you, OBEY or be destroyed.

I would call it common sense. On one side, pay $135,000, break the law, and lose my business. On the other side, bake and sell a cake.

Decisions, decisions.....

How about I decide to stay true to my faith. Who are you to take away that right? As long as there is a gay baker and a gay florist willing to provide cakes and flowers and rainbows, why insist that a person of faith, set their faith aside or be punished?

Because there is nothing in the Christian Bible that says, "Thou shalt not bake a wedding cake for a woman who lies with a woman or a man who lies with a man", which means that it is not a tenant of your faith, but, instead, your choice to discriminate.

You don't know the Bible:

Titus 3:10
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.

Romans 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.


You have removed my ability to practice my faith. You have no right to do that in a free America.

There really is nothing in the Bible that says, "Thou shall not use electric". Amish shun electricity in their businesses. You are for electric. What gives you the right to insist that the Amish use electric just because you visit their stores?

Stop forcing your agenda on others. This is America. I have the right to bake or not bake cakes, and you have the right to buy or not buy cakes.

 

[Vandalshandle]

All things considered, I suspect that they would have been better off baking and selling the cake.....

That's liberals for you, OBEY or be destroyed.

I would call it common sense. On one side, pay $135,000, break the law, and lose my business. On the other side, bake and sell a cake.

Decisions, decisions.....

How about I decide to stay true to my faith. Who are you to take away that right? As long as there is a gay baker and a gay florist willing to provide cakes and flowers and rainbows, why insist that a person of faith, set their faith aside or be punished?

Because there is nothing in the Christian Bible that says, "Thou shalt not bake a wedding cake for a woman who lies with a woman or a man who lies with a man", which means that it is not a tenant of your faith, but, instead, your choice to discriminate.

You don't know the Bible:

Titus 3:10
Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.

2 John 1:10
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.

Romans 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.


You have removed my ability to practice my faith. You have no right to do that in a free America.

There really is nothing in the Bible that says, "Thou shall not use electric". Amish shun electricity in their businesses. You are for electric. What gives you the right to insist that the Amish use electric just because you visit their stores?

Stop forcing your agenda on others. This is America. I have the right to bake or not bake cakes, and you have the right to buy or not buy cakes.

Unfortunately for you, the Supreme Court Trumps your personal interpretation of the Bible. Sorry about that.

 

[The Irish Ram]

You have confused interpretation, with straight from the horse's mouth. I didn't interpret the verse. I quoted it verbatim:

Romans 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.

Nor did the Supreme court interpret it. They just took away my right to practice it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

You have confused interpretation, with straight from the horse's mouth. I didn't interpret the verse. I quoted it verbatim:

Romans 16:17
And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people's faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them.

Nor did the Supreme court interpret it. They just took away my right to practice it.

That works, too.....

 

[The Irish Ram]

In a fascist society it does. And it works in a dictatorship. Not in a free society.
Why so anxious to push your agenda on someone else? Don't you like freedom?

 

[PostmodernProph]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

No, I ignore people who threaten to kill me, on a public message board, and then have the nerve to cal themselves "Christians".

hm.....I forget which thread I did that in....can you point to it?......

 

[Vandalshandle]

In a fascist society it does. And it works in a dictatorship. Not in a free society.
Why so anxious to push your agenda on someone else? Don't you like freedom?

I've been celebrating freedom from religion for decades.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

In a fascist society it does. And it works in a dictatorship. Not in a free society.
Why so anxious to push your agenda on someone else? Don't you like freedom?

I've been celebrating freedom from religion for decades.

It's freedom OF religion, moron. You leftist assholes always get it wrong

 

[Vandalshandle]

ignored again...

its why you will never learn anything.......you ignore your teachers......

No, I ignore people who threaten to kill me, on a public message board, and then have the nerve to cal themselves "Christians".

hm.....I forget which thread I did that in....can you point to it?......

You also seem to have forgotten that you are not the one to whom I replied, "Ignored, as usual"