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No one said the government was buying white farms, moron. I said bands of thugs are simply stealing them while the government looks the other way. They often murder the owners in the process. This is the Utopia that brain damages imbeciles like you have created.
Land Reform In Ramaphosa’s South Africa
Here is how taking land legally currently works, in South Africa, a place the US State Department has only just lauded as “a strong democracy with resilient institutions…,” a country merely “grappling with the difficult issue of land reform.” “Land reform,” of course, is a euphemism for land distribution in the Robert Mugabe mold.
The process currently in place typically begins with a “tribe” or group of individuals who band together to claim vast tracts of private property.
If these loosely and conveniently conjoined groups know anything, it’s this: South Africa’s adapted, indigenized law allows coveted land, owned and occupied by another, to be obtained with relative ease.
See, the country no longer enjoys the impressive Western system of Roman-Dutch law it once enjoyed. Lax law and poorly protected property rights signal a free-for-all on the lives of white owners and their livestock
No sooner does this newly constituted “tribe” (or band of bandits, really) launch a claim with the South African Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, than related squatters—sometimes in the thousands—move to colonize the land.
They defile its grounds and groundwater by using these as one vast toilet, and terrorize, sometimes kill, its occupants and their animals in the hope of “nudging” them off the land.
Dr. Philip du Toit, a farmer (with a doctorate in labor law) and author of “The Great South African Land Scandal,” speaks of recurrent attacks on farm animals that “hark back to the Mau Mau terror campaign which drove whites off Kenyan farms.”
Farmer’s Weekly used to be packed with pitiful accounts of cows poisoned with exotic substances, battered with heavy metal bars, writhing in agony for hours before being found by a distraught farmer.
“Encroachment is the right word,” a farmer told du Toit. “They put their cattle in, then they cut the fences, then they start stealing your crops, forcing you to leave your land. And then they say: ‘Oh well, there’s vacant land, let’s move on to it.’
It’s a very subtle way of stealing land.” “When there is a farm claim I say ‘Look out!’ because attacks may follow to scare the farmers,” confirmed the regional director of the Transvaal Agricultural Union (TAU).”
Agri SA, an organization representing small and large-scale commercial farmers, reports the annual theft of hundreds of thousands of priceless livestock.
The ANC’s old Soviet-inspired Freedom Charter promised this: “All shall have the right to occupy land wherever they choose.” And so they do today.
Because of legal claims they are powerless to fight, squatters whom they cannot fend off, and cattle, crops and families which they can no longer protect, farmers have already been pushed to abandon hundreds of thousands of hectares of prime commercial farmland.
“Since the end of apartheid in 1994, when multi-racial elections were held,” wrote Dan McDougal of the London Times, millions of “acres of productive farmland have been transferred to black ownership. Much of it is now lying fallow, creating no economic benefit for the nation or its new owners.”
Man is there a subject you EVER get right? They are buying farms and then redistributing it to Blacks. Do you ever feel any guilt from lying all the time? Do you have even a bit of shame?
Either way it is not something anyone should support a government doing
Huh? I've never said I support it? Did you reply to the wrong post?
You sure do not seem to be against it.
What? What have I said that says I support it? I've simply stated the facts.
The land isn't being taken without compensation like is being used as a talking point in this thread... and stated the hypocrisy of the Trump supporters who are using this as a talking point while supporting Trump who plans to do the same thing here to build his wall.
I don't like the idea of the government taking ANYONE'S land, but if people are going to use it as a political tool, at least get the facts straight.
It's not the same thing. Only a Stalinist would claim it is. Apartheid doesn't justify stealing private property and murdering the owners. Your moral compass is seriously askew if you believe it does. The Apartheid government was far more benign than the current nest of Stalinist thugs. Blacks immigrated into South Africa the whole time Apartheid was in force. Man, it must have been so horrible!You've been defending the kleptocrat state of South Africa. You tried to compare its policy of stealing private land with the American law of eminent domain.Lewdog has made it painfully obvious that he has no problem with the government expropriating private property. And he says Trump has no morals!
You made this statement before and I asked you to prove it. You haven't but instead have gone the Trumpian route that if you repeat it over and over it might become true.
It is the same thing. Only difference is the U.S. government keeps it for themselves, and South Africa is giving some to Blacks in order to use as farm land.
Do you have any idea what Apartheid was? At all? Do you know what happened to the former government that would KILL and punish blacks for ordinary behavior during Apartheid?
The land blacks are taking has been in the families of the owners for generation. The only reason it can grow crops at all is because of all the hard work and money the owners invested in it. The blacks who are taking it did nothing to entitle themselves to it. Not a fucking thing. Most of them are not even native to South Africa.
Lol, it IS the same thing, and the killings of farmers has gone DOWN.
You are ignoring the point of me mentioning Apartheid. Again, do you know what happened to those in government that took part in Apartheid???
LOLOLLOLOL"you're just kazzing again"I never said that he didn't say that, you're just kazzing again. I said he's a Democrat, I didn't say he said he's a Democrat. He runs around the board lock step with you idiots. If an animal that runs around looking like a wildebeest in a wildebeest pack claims it's a zebra, the only one he's fooling is himself.
He didn't fool me, I said he's a Democrat. And he didn't fool you either, you're here being his codpiece and defending him. He's only fooling himself
LOLOLOL
Kaz lies so much, even he acknowledges his name is synonymous with "liar."
There we go, you're back to banging your dick on trees, pounding your chest and saying you own everyone.
The eight year old is strong in this one.
That really gives you a hard on? The bluster and cartoons?
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
Trump would be so proud of Kaz and bripat... they are good little drones who ignore facts even when it is shown to them in black and white.
I think it is about time to put them both on ignore. They've now fallen to the level of forum clutter. I might as well be talking to a pigeon.
You're the one who keeps having to misquote Trump to make your point, racist douche
Yeah I'm officially done with you. You are one of the most unethical, immoral, and dishonest posters on this entire forum.
Confirmation bias.
-------------------------------------------------
Trump: “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.”
Lewdog: Just like he retweeted about South Africa, and it is totally untrue.
It is true, WTF is wrong with you? Some of that land has been in farmer's families for centuries. It's just your typical leftist bull shit that racism is only white on black, blacks can't by your leftist definition be racists
--------------------------------------------------
What Trump said: “You also had some very fine people on both sides."
This is how you lie, "They are good people on both sides... both sides."
You changed that he said some to all and you said he repeated it, which he didn't.
So just to be clear, you think there are not SOME good people who are both for and against removing southern statues of former slave owners? One side has in your view literally zero good people?
-----------------------------------------------------
So other than your just flat outright lie/misquote of Trump and a factually true statement that you lied wasn't factually true, you have anything or you going to hang your hat on that, racist? Again, race baiting is in itself racist
It's a true as making a political statement that Blacks are being systematically exterminated in America. Yes, there are white people who are killing Blacks in the U.S. but it isn't anywhere near the levels it used to be.
The killing of white farmers in South Africa is actually DOWN from in the past, and South Africa isn't taking away land at some crazy rate in South Africa. It is no different than here in the U.S. where Trump wants to build his wall, which will include the federal government taking the land of U.S. citizens under imminent domain so they can build the wall.
That's are why these are called half-truths.
Trump Echoes Neo-Nazi Propaganda About South Africa (That He Heard on Fox News)
So please explain to me how I paraphrased what Trump said was different from the EXACT quote.
I said they are, when it is "there are." Yes, that is the quote and even with that quote, he is trying to talk out of both sides of his mouth so that he can try to say he spoke out against the violence, YET not offend the white nationalist base, one of which ran over protesters and killed a woman.
The tweet YOU referred to again. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.”
The link I gave you said the South African government is taking land from white farmers. It also mentioned blacks killing white farmers, so you went off on that deflecting from the point we were discussing.
This is how you lie and race bait, racist. Trump didn't say anything about the murder of white farmers, he said the South African government is confiscating the land of white farmers, which is true.
And these were your go to, first off the bat examples that Trump is the racist. One you just flat out lied and misquoted him. The other, you didn't address what he said but make up something he didn't say and went off after that.
All you're doing is proving your point that you're a racist because you are race baiting and exploiting races for cheap political points
I believe there is much misinformation on this issue. The South African Government has always had the right to confiscate land where needed with compensation just as Trump is planning on doing to build his wall in the US. What has changed is an amendment is being considered which would eliminate compensation. No farms are being confiscated without compensation now and there are no mass killings of whites over this issue. That is false news.
However, if the amendment passes farms owned by whites could be taken without compensation. According to the ANC, that would not happen due to wording in the amendment. However, others in the ANC say they want both black and white owned farms. Since the farm exports have risen rapidly bringing much needed revenue into the country, it seems unlikely the government would want to upset the apple cart.
Everyone grasps eminent domain, moron. The point in South Africa is they are targeting white farmers because of their race. How stupid are you?
Maybe if you read the amendment, you might actually understand rather just repeating propaganda.
LOLLOLOLLOLOL"you're just kazzing again"
LOLOLOL
Kaz lies so much, even he acknowledges his name is synonymous with "liar."
There we go, you're back to banging your dick on trees, pounding your chest and saying you own everyone.
The eight year old is strong in this one.
That really gives you a hard on? The bluster and cartoons?
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
LOLLOLOLLOLOLThere we go, you're back to banging your dick on trees, pounding your chest and saying you own everyone.
The eight year old is strong in this one.
That really gives you a hard on? The bluster and cartoons?
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
You recognize you’re such a pathological liar that your own name is synonymous with lying. That’s good enough for me. Oh, and that you reveal how much that gets under your skin too.
LOLLOLOLLOLOLThere we go, you're back to banging your dick on trees, pounding your chest and saying you own everyone.
The eight year old is strong in this one.
That really gives you a hard on? The bluster and cartoons?
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
You recognize you’re such a pathological liar that your own name is synonymous with lying. That’s good enough for me. Oh, and that you reveal how much that gets under your skin too.
LOLOLOLLOLLOLOLLOLOL
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
You recognize you’re such a pathological liar that your own name is synonymous with lying. That’s good enough for me. Oh, and that you reveal how much that gets under your skin too.
Gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun,
LOLOLOLLOLLOLOLYou're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
You recognize you’re such a pathological liar that your own name is synonymous with lying. That’s good enough for me. Oh, and that you reveal how much that gets under your skin too.
Gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun, Faun is gay, gay is Faun,
^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Nothing funny...Trump has used NDAs for years to protect his reputation. Heck, he even sued his first wife for violating an NDA.
Sworn To Secrecy: Trump's History Of Using Nondisclosure Agreements
And it has never worked, but when you cheat on wife 1 with wife 2 it is sort of obvious what sort of person you are
It also shows it was a common thing for him to do in his life, not for a campaign. Your attempt to criminalize the payment fails.
It is not my attempt, it is the attempt of the Southern District of New York. Time will tell what the outcome is.
Well, I don't live in the Southern District of New York, so I don't care if they waste tax dollars. We can look at John Edwards' trial and know what the outcome is going to be.
I would not put too much stock in the Edwards case, there are many differences, the main one being that none of his payments were during the actual election process. When he made his payments not a single primary had been held yet. This is not a small difference.
And it has never worked, but when you cheat on wife 1 with wife 2 it is sort of obvious what sort of person you are
It also shows it was a common thing for him to do in his life, not for a campaign. Your attempt to criminalize the payment fails.
It is not my attempt, it is the attempt of the Southern District of New York. Time will tell what the outcome is.
Well, I don't live in the Southern District of New York, so I don't care if they waste tax dollars. We can look at John Edwards' trial and know what the outcome is going to be.
I would not put too much stock in the Edwards case, there are many differences, the main one being that none of his payments were during the actual election process. When he made his payments not a single primary had been held yet. This is not a small difference.
And yet he was indicted and tried...and found NOT guilty.
Correct. But his circumstances were different than Trumps so it does not really apply to Trump's case.
Correct. But his circumstances were different than Trumps so it does not really apply to Trump's case.
Or rather, incorrect. The jury threw out one count, and was deadlocked on the others. That's somewhat different from "not guilty."
True, I thought about bringing that up, but it did not seem vital and it just gives them one more thing to argue about.
You've been defending the kleptocrat state of South Africa. You tried to compare its policy of stealing private land with the American law of eminent domain.Lewdog has made it painfully obvious that he has no problem with the government expropriating private property. And he says Trump has no morals!Yes they are. The U.S. government doesn't pay actual market value for land here either, which is what happens when the government is the buyer and sets the price. Ask anyone that has had their land seized due to imminent domain.
Again, let's go back to the point. You said Trump is a racist because he said Whites are having their land taken. You're saying he's a racist because sure, they are having their land taken, but they are getting blow market value for it because governments do that.
You have no pride or integrity. And again, this is one of your two Trump is a racist examples. The other you caved on completely after you butchered Trump's quote
You made this statement before and I asked you to prove it. You haven't but instead have gone the Trumpian route that if you repeat it over and over it might become true.
Remember when Democrats were against racism in South Africa? How times have changed. But yeah, well put.
Gator/Lewdog: The American government can take land from citizens to build roads, therefore, the South African government can take land from farmers based on race and give it to others based on their race. Same thing.
They're a couple of sick fucks
Well that's interesting but it has no relevance to what is happening in South Africa nor the subject of this thread.The labor tenants that will be eligible to own the land are those who have farmed the land and whose parents or grandparents have farmed the land. These are not thieves and thugs but families that have lived and farmed the land for generations.This article is nonsense. The purpose of the reform is not to steal land from farmers and give it to tribes that no nothing about farming. That is how it is being framed by opponents. The purpose of the legislation is to return the land to labor tenants.Blacks have been murdering whites ever since the end of Apartheid. You're trying to say that's acceptable. It isn't. Blacks were denied the right to vote. They weren't murdered in their beds in the middle of the nights like they are currently doing to whites. They also aren't changing their country for the better with this so-called "land reform."What does it have to do with it? It has EVERYTHING to do with it. If Blacks had any time that could even remotely be called acceptable for them to commit violence against whites it would have been after the end of Apartheid, and it didn't happen. What is going on now is NOTHING like how you are trying to make it. After several years of widespread suppression and abuse, the Blacks of South Africa instead turned the other cheek and looked to change their country for the better. Yet here you are trying to spread a lie that there is widespread killings of white farmers by Blacks, and that isn't true.
Without exception, splendid enterprises that fed the country many times over have been reduced to “subsistence operations with a few mangy cattle and the odd mealie patch.” (Mealie is Afrikaans for “maize,” deriving, apparently, from the Portuguese word milho.)
In even the best-case scenario, farms belonging to the whites who feed the country and produce surpluses are being handed over to subsistence farmers who can barely feed themselves.
ROFL! "Land reform" is a leftwing euphemism meaning "theft." How is giving the land to people who never owned it or farmed it "returning" it?
There are 22,000 labor tenants who submitted claims against the land owners. Most of the owners are not farmers, they are just landlords, often large corporations, trusts, or banks. Labor tenants are people who have lived on the land and worked the land for generations. But they are more than farm workers, labor tenants farm on the land in exchange for their labor. The closest equivalent in the US would be sharecroppers. However the lot these people have been dealt is worst than sharecroppers. In order to farm the land the families must labor for the land owner for the right to farm the land. In most cases they must either pay rent in addition to their labor for the landlord or a percent of the crop. Since the land owners stole the land from the these people, there is certainly justice in returning it to them. Transferring the land to labor tenants is not a major issue. It is doing so without compensating the landowner.
The land owners did not steal the land from anyone. Most of them have owned the land for generations. The so-called "tenants" are in reality who moved in quit recently. Most blacks in South Africa were not born their or their parents were not born there. They are immigrants who relocated for a better life then they could obtain in the surrounding economic disasters.
There is no justice in stealing land from people who own it to give to thugs who moved in, destroyed the live stock, and have never farmed a day in their lives. Stealing is never a major issue for thieves and thugs. It is a major issue for their victims.
Why am i not surprised that a snowflake would support organized plunder and government sanctioned thuggery?
In 1913, the Native Land Act became law which forbid natives from entering into any land transaction. They were not allowed to buy, own or lease land for farming purposes. They were also not allowed to occupy farm land unless they were tenants while they were servants on farms. In effect, on June 20, 1913 natives that farmed the land for 2000 years found themselves without their land or homes. White men took over all farm land by paying a fee to the government. The South African natives found themselves, not actually slaves, but a pariah in the land of their birth. If that's not stealing, I don't know what is. The act was not repealed until 1994.
South Africa marks 105 years since Natives Land Act - SABC News - Breaking news, special reports, world, business, sport coverage of all South African current events. Africa's news leader.
Allodial rights to property was lost after commie FDR pledged our labor as surety against the debt due to the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of March 1933.
Senate Document # 43; SENATE RESOLUTION NO. 62 (Pg 9, Para 2) April 17, 1933. "The ultimate ownership of all property is in the State; individual so-called "ownership"is only by virtue of Government, i.e., law, amounting to mere user; and use must be in accordance with law and subordinate to the necessities of the State".
Game, set AND match, dipshit.......it has to suck to be as stupid and as uninformed as you are.
Africa is a continent. South Africa is a nation. You're right about one thing: I don't give a shit about either. South Africa is already providing a good object lesson in why you don't vote for communists to run your government.Since when do rightards give a shit about Africa?? Africa is a nation that is nothing more than a talking point for them.
That's a lie, FuexLOLLOLOLLOLOLThere we go, you're back to banging your dick on trees, pounding your chest and saying you own everyone.
The eight year old is strong in this one.
That really gives you a hard on? The bluster and cartoons?
I never said I own anyone, no less everyone.
But I did get you to admit your name is synonymous with liar.
You're kazzing again, you're always telling people you own them. You're a joke for that on the board
Your delirium is noted and laughed at.
Again.
You act like I wouldn't notice other people telling you in our conversations how your blathering about your rhetorical prowess is so you.
So there are two people. One keeps saying to the other, you're kazzing, you're kazzing again, you're kazzing kaz, you're a kaz kazzer, you're kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing. That person walks up to everyone else and says kaz is a kazzer, he's a kazzing kazzer, he's kazzing a kaz kazzer kazzing, he's a kazzer kazzing kaz kazzer.
Now would you guess this person is eight, a teenager or an adult? About 98% would say eight. Do you expect to hit puberty as some point, half pint?
You recognize you’re such a pathological liar that your own name is synonymous with lying. That’s good enough for me. Oh, and that you reveal how much that gets under your skin too.
