peace proposal : 50% of Palestinian lands conquered by the Israelis given back, and halting of the settlement expansion.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Occupation of what?

So far as I'm concerned at least, the Zionist state has to go. The state has to be eliminated, its declared borders dissolved, every square inch of land under Israeli control is an illegal occupation. The place was created by the dictates of former colonial powers using the UN.

Since Zionists regard the UN as null and void, so too is the UN as the authority that created the state in 1947 and therefore the very existence of this illegitimate regime is illegal.

We need to see a free unified Palestine, the entire territory needs a new government, the Zionists tried to run a country and messed it up from day, they have no idea how to govern themselves let alone the non-Jews living there.

The scumbags voted down the idea of a Palestinian state today anyway, so why bother trying to work with the Zionists, they are a failure, Israel is a failure and Zionism is a failure, let it fail and let the people start again.

This can be done peacefully or violently, but sooner or later it's going to fall.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You need to get out more.

The Ottoman Empire gave that land up a while ago.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The Ottoman Empire gave that land up a while ago.

Yes and the British barged right back in and took over the place.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So far as I'm concerned at least, the Zionist state has to go. The state has to be eliminated, its declared borders dissolved, every square inch of land under Israeli control is an illegal occupation. The place was created by the dictates of former colonial powers using the UN.

Since Zionists regard the UN as null and void, so too is the UN as the authority that created the state in 1947 and therefore the very existence of this illegitimate regime is illegal.

We need to see a free unified Palestine, the entire territory needs a new government, the Zionists tried to run a country and messed it up from day, they have no idea how to govern themselves let alone the non-Jews living there.

The scumbags voted down the idea of a Palestinian state today anyway, so why bother trying to work with the Zionists, they are a failure, Israel is a failure and Zionism is a failure, let it fail and let the people start again.

This can be done peacefully or violently, but sooner or later it's going to fall.

So far as I'm concerned at least, the Zionist state has to go. The state has to be eliminated, its declared borders dissolved, every square inch of land under Israeli control is an illegal occupation. The place was created by the dictates of former colonial powers using the UN.

Just like a bunch of Muslim shitholes. Dissolve all those borders and let them all fight it out.

Since Zionists regard the UN as null and void, so too is the UN as the authority that created the state in 1947

Where did the UN create anything?

We need to see a free unified Palestine, the entire territory needs a new government

Sounds good. Push all those Arabs into Jordan.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yes and the British barged right back in and took over the place.

The British kicked Ottoman ass and took it. Palestinians never had any of it.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

So far as I'm concerned at least, the Zionist state has to go. The state has to be eliminated, its declared borders dissolved, every square inch of land under Israeli control is an illegal occupation. The place was created by the dictates of former colonial powers using the UN.

Just like a bunch of Muslim shitholes. Dissolve all those borders and let them all fight it out.

Since Zionists regard the UN as null and void, so too is the UN as the authority that created the state in 1947

Where did the UN create anything?

It's known as resolution 181, the partitioning until that was done there was no way to recognize the new state.

We need to see a free unified Palestine, the entire territory needs a new government

Sounds good. Push all those Arabs into Jordan.

Why would you want to do that and who would do that? you do realize that's a call for genocide.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

The British kicked Ottoman ass and took it. Palestinians never had any of it.

You're mistaken, the Arabs routed the Ottomans after Britain agreed it would support independence in the region.

 

[Shusha]

No I didn't, I said that; unless there are criteria for condemnation, one can't condemn. In order to condemn, the presence of criteria is implied and the same criteria must be used to assess each party to the conflict this is obvious but you seem reticent to accept this simple process.

I would suggest "commission of war crimes" would be excellent criteria.

I condemn them on the basis they carried out terrorism.

Terrorism is a squishy word. Like "resistance" or "fighting back" or even "self-defense". Let's discuss, instead, specific acts:

Committing acts of belligerence against another State in that State's territory.
Indiscriminate long-range attacks.
Failing to discriminate between civilians and combatants.
Deliberate targeting of civilians.
Specific targeting and harm to children.
Abducting and holding captive civilians.
Failure to allow access to welfare agencies for prisoners of war.

Do you condemn Hamas for any or all of these crimes, war crimes, crimes against humanity with the criteria being that they are crimes, war crimes, crimes against humanity?

 

[Slyhunter]

I've seen thousands of hours of war reporting over the years. That report is simply parroting IDF propaganda, they were "escorted" (code for told what questions they could ask) by the IDF's "top spokesperson" defining the narrative. It is frankly laughable, likely staged scenes. The meaning of the scenes is given to us by the IDF, it is their "explanations" we are being given.

The report is "a rare inside look" and "it's clear, he wants this story told" which is the clue to its real purpose, an IDF narrative designed to promote propaganda and salvage the public image of the Zionist regime.

Here's what The Guardian newspaper had to say, three days after that CNN report, about this "Hospital HQ" claim, I hope you can read it:


and

and

and

and


So there you are, I looked, I watched it and I did my due diligence and I've done this many times over the years. power often lies to protect itself, if you find that shocking or unimaginable that's good, it is shocking so start being more critical about the narratives that are fed to you, the stories that are told by the authorities.

Soon I hope, arrest warrants will be issued and Nazinyahu arrested and put on trial and incarcerated until death for this despicable killing spree.

The purpose of the propaganda is not to give an explanation for what's going on, it is actually intended to stop you asking questions.

why waste time trying to prove something to someone, you, who would explain away anything pressent4d to him. Is there and ignore button on this thread?

 

[rosends]

No I didn't, I said that; unless there are criteria for condemnation, one can't condemn. In order to condemn, the presence of criteria is implied and the same criteria must be used to assess each party to the conflict this is obvious but you seem reticent to accept this simple process.

I condemn them on the basis they carried out terrorism.

I've said rather more than that. Before one condemns the 7th Oct attack one must determine its overall severity with respect to other such acts. When one does that (if one is honest) Israel's many terrorist attacks must rank as more deserving of condemnation. I explained all this to you but you don't recall.

You advocate selective condemnation, Hamas -> must be condemned; Israel -> must not be condemned, that's not equitable and inequity is inherent in militant Zionist ideology.

Yes.

Do you agree that we can ranks such acts, by either side, in terms of severity? magnitude? like the number of deaths or the number of children or the total number of such acts and so on? For example if Israel carries out five times as many attacks as Hamas per year, then that fact should be used in some way, to rank Israel?

You know where this is leading and you refuse to go there, you are blind to Israel's state criminality.

See, you keep wanting to make this about me. You introduced your lack of knowledge. I simply provided information. And now, because of that, you condemn Hamas and it's war crimes. Was that so tough?

You're welcome.

 

[Shusha]

It's known as resolution 181, the partitioning until that was done there was no way to recognize the new state.

This is legally untrue. The UN has no authority to create a State, delineate borders of a State, or interfere with the territorial integrity of a State. There are legal norms in place for State declaration, territorial boundaries, and recognition. The UN has nothing to do with it.

 

[rosends]

Due diligence, sanity checks, prior examples, previous claims by specific individuals, principled journalists, common sense. You do not use that approach. You have a narrative and select reports and claims that allow that narrative to be reinforced, you are more interested in preserving a myth than accepting reality.

And here I just wanted to believe hamas. I guess you think they are liars. Except when you want to believe them...

 

[rosends]

There are levels of trust, trust has to be earned. You don't just blindly trust the Zionists because there was a holocaust or because there is antisemitism in the world. These factors do not excuse crimes. The UN is largely trustworthy.

So the UN admits that hamas did these things. Do you still question them?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

why waste time trying to prove something to someone, you, who would explain away anything pressent4d to him. Is there and ignore button on this thread?

I presented a report that undermines the IDF's claims, that you don't like that doesn't matter. By rejecting it it is you who is "explaining away". I didn't write that Guardian article I just showed it to you.

 

[Slyhunter]

I presented a report that undermines the IDF's claims, that you don't like that doesn't matter. By rejecting it it is you who is "explaining away". I didn't write that Guardian article I just showed it to you.

I don't recall it do you have a link for it?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

This is legally untrue. The UN has no authority to create a State, delineate borders of a State, or interfere with the territorial integrity of a State. There are legal norms in place for State declaration, territorial boundaries, and recognition. The UN has nothing to do with it.

The UN has no authority, it is the member state that have the authority. The member states approved the partition plan.

 

[rosends]

Zionists hate Arabs and Christians.

Which Zionists. I know plenty who don't. Did you want to make any other general statements that fail on the specific application?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I don't recall it do you have a link for it?

IDF evidence so far falls well short of al-Shifa hospital being Hamas HQ

Footage to date fails to prove Gaza complex was nerve centre for attacks on Israel, as military had claimed

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

See, you keep wanting to make this about me. You introduced your lack of knowledge. I simply provided information. And now, because of that, you condemn Hamas and it's war crimes. Was that so tough?

You're welcome.

You skipped over the questions I asked you as you often do, here they are again:

Do you agree that we can ranks such acts, by either side, in terms of severity? magnitude? like the number of deaths or the number of children or the total number of such acts and so on? For example if Israel carries out five times as many attacks as Hamas per year, then that fact should be used in some way, to rank Israel?

 

[Slyhunter]

IDF evidence so far falls well short of al-Shifa hospital being Hamas HQ

Footage to date fails to prove Gaza complex was nerve centre for attacks on Israel, as military had claimed

www.theguardian.com

ok, so let's say you are right it isn't their hq. They do have a server there using power from the UNWR, with the UNWR thinking we are stupid enough to believe they didn't know and a arms cache. Both makes the entire UNWR building a military target and possibly all UNWR buildings as military targets. Which is the primary point you ignored.

Who gives a fuck if it was their actual hq or not.