peace proposal : 50% of Palestinian lands conquered by the Israelis given back, and halting of the settlement expansion.

[Shusha]

It was all Palestinian land.

That is an interesting claim. Let's walk through what you might mean by that.

Only the Arab peoples have a right to self-determination on that land. No other collective of peoples, regardless of their indigeneity and historical connection to that land has a right to self-determination as a collective on that land. (Or, same argument, "Only the Jewish people have a right to self-determination on that land. No other collective of peoples, regardless of their indigeneity and historical connection to that land has a right to self-determination as a collective on that land.")

OR

There is no right to self-determination for any peoples, in any land. There is another basis for determining the right of a people to form a government and create a new State. Please provide.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Which Zionists. I know plenty who don't. Did you want to make any other general statements that fail on the specific application?

Fair point, the Zionists who believe in Jew supremacy.

 

[Shusha]

The UN has no authority, it is the member state that have the authority. The member states approved the partition plan.

Which member states? World opinion / popular vote also does not have the authority to create States, delineate borders of States, or interfere with the territorial integrity of States.

 

[Slyhunter]

You skipped over the questions I asked you as you often do, here they are again:

Do you agree that we can ranks such acts, by either side, in terms of severity? magnitude? like the number of deaths or the number of children or the total number of such acts and so on? For example if Israel carries out five times as many attacks as Hamas per year, then that fact should be used in some way, to rank Israel?

It doesn't work that way. Just because Hamas sucks at it, it iss their target and intent that matters. IDF causing civilian casualties going after military target doesn't score on a number of civilian deaths because they don't matter in the grand scope of things in winning the war. It is the intent and the target that matters.

We killed a lot of civilians in WWII in Germany and Japan. As long as we were going after military objective you can't hold those civilian deaths against us.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

ok, so let's say you are right it isn't their hq. They do have a server there using power from the UNWR, with the UNWR thinking we are stupid enough to believe they didn't know and a arms cache. Both makes the entire UNWR building a military target and possibly all UNWR buildings as military targets. Which is the primary point you ignored.

I showed you solid evidence that the IDF lie, yet you continue to trust them, their other claims.

Who gives a fuck if it was their actual hq or not.

People who care about honesty, if that's now too controversial for you, if honesty is an unwelcome hindrance you should go and live in Israel, you'd fit right in.

 

[Slyhunter]

Fair point, the Zionists who believe in Jew supremacy.

and the muslims who believe in a world wide caliphate who already have 50 states and can't give the Jews just 1.

 

[Slyhunter]

I showed you solid evidence that the IDF lie, yet you continue to trust them, their other claims.


People who care about honesty, if that's now too controversial for you, if honesty is an unwelcome hindrance you should go and live in Israel, you'd fit right in.

lie or exaggerate or might be wrong is not a lie.
You people expect the benefit of the doubt which you don't give your opponents.

 

[rosends]

You skipped over the questions I asked you as you often do, here they are again:

Do you agree that we can ranks such acts, by either side, in terms of severity? magnitude? like the number of deaths or the number of children or the total number of such acts and so on? For example if Israel carries out five times as many attacks as Hamas per year, then that fact should be used in some way, to rank Israel?

I skipped over them because this isn't about me. I'm not the one who expressed ignorance.

But if you really are so obsessed with my opinion I'll help you. I think murdering one person is bad and murdering 10 is also bad. The fact that some murders 10 doesn't let the guy who murdered 1 off the hook. When a mass murderer is tried he is tried for x number of individual murders. There is no category for 1-10 murders and a separate one for 11-20. This has nothing to do with the middle east but if you thirst for my position, now you have it.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It's known as resolution 181, the partitioning until that was done there was no way to recognize the new state.

Why would you want to do that and who would do that? you do realize that's a call for genocide.

It's known as resolution 181

That didn't create Israel.

Why would you want to do that

You wanted a unified Palestine. That's where the other Palestinians live.

and who would do that?

You?

you do realize that's a call for genocide.

Relocation. To a better neighborhood.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

That is an interesting claim. Let's walk through what you might mean by that.

Only the Arab peoples have a right to self-determination on that land.

Palestinian Arabs, Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Jews, they all have a right to self determination.

No other collective of peoples, regardless of their indigeneity and historical connection to that land has a right to self-determination as a collective on that land. (Or, same argument, "Only the Jewish people have a right to self-determination on that land. No other collective of peoples, regardless of their indigeneity and historical connection to that land has a right to self-determination as a collective on that land.")

OR

There is no right to self-determination for any peoples, in any land. There is another basis for determining the right of a people to form a government and create a new State. Please provide.

You're quite confused.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I skipped over them because this isn't about me. I'm not the one who expressed ignorance.

Fine, don't expect any answers from me then.

But if you really are so obsessed with my opinion I'll help you. I think murdering one person is bad and murdering 10 is also bad. The fact that some murders 10 doesn't let the guy who murdered 1 off the hook. When a mass murderer is tried he is tried for x number of individual murders. There is no category for 1-10 murders and a separate one for 11-20. This has nothing to do with the middle east but if you thirst for my position, now you have it.

 

[rosends]

Fair point, the Zionists who believe in Jew supremacy.

And which are those? And do you know if they represent anyone beyond themselves? How many are we talking about?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You're mistaken, the Arabs routed the Ottomans after Britain agreed it would support independence in the region.

Plenty of Arabs got independence after that.
The "Palestinians" could have as well, if they weren't such crybabies.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

It's known as resolution 181

That didn't create Israel.

Yes it did, look at a map before and after the resolution.

Why would you want to do that

You wanted a unified Palestine. That's where the other Palestinians live.

and who would do that?

You?

you do realize that's a call for genocide.

Relocation. To a better neighborhood.

 

[rosends]

Fine, don't expect any answers from me then.

I don't and never have. But your refusal to answer when you bring something up is telling.

 

[Shusha]

Palestinian Arabs, Palestinian Christians, Palestinian Jews, they all have a right to self determination.

Independently? Or under the collective of "Palestinian"? IF you mean under the collective of "Palestinian", please define.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

And which are those? And do you know if they represent anyone beyond themselves? How many are we talking about?

Are you asking me for their names? Lets try Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, that's two for now.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Plenty of Arabs got independence after that.

And plenty did not.

The "Palestinians" could have as well, if they weren't such crybabies.

They could have if the British had not betrayed their agreement with the Arabs and instead formed a secret alliance with militant Zionist Jew supremacists.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I don't and never have. But your refusal to answer when you bring something up is telling.

I like to answer questions in the order they arise, clearly you are not.

 

[gipper]

Yes, lots of truth to that, Americans believe they have the freest press in the world yet they are without doubt the lest informed about the world, totally indoctrinated, worse than Russia in terms of ignorance of world affairs.

Agreed. Americans are the most propgandized people on the planet. At least during Soviet times, most Russians knew their media was propaganda. I suspect many Americans know our media is propaganda for the benefit of the government and the elite, but many still don’t.