Perfect example for 2nd amendment rights.

[g5000]

Many advanced nations have found solutions which have drastically reduced their homicide rates. So to say there is no effective solution is a total fabrication.

EXAMPLES PLEASE -

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Horrible illogic.

It is idiotic to claim poverty doesn't cause crime just because there are poor who don't commit crime! Holy shit!

The poor commit crimes way out of proportion to their demographic.

Poverty is a primary cause of crime.

Why the hell do you think kids join gangs? Because of poverty.

You don't see rich kids gang banging.

 

[Doc1]

Many advanced nations have found solutions which have drastically reduced their homicide rates. So to say there is no effective solution is a total fabrication.

EXAMPLES PLEASE -

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

You have to excuse g, he thinks he is an expert at everything. People kill people, not guns. People kill people for a lot of reasons but to Progressive like g it's never the person's fault, it's always do to circumstance or whatever else, but NEVER the "person".

 

[EGR one]

What is your proposal for mitigating the 11,000+ gun homicides in the US each year?

I can't stop 11000 murders but If I can stop one (mine or my wife's) that's good enough reason to have a gun

What if you can stop 1 murder by limiting the firepower or magazine capacity of a gun in a school shooters hands. Say 16 deaths instead of 17 cause he had less bullets or had to reload... would that be worth it?

This is a good line of questioning.

If we make it more difficult to obtain guns, then we save lives. This has proven to be the case in other advanced nations.

The USA is not, and never has been, like other advanced nations. Americans are independent minded, distrustful of government at all levels, and resistant to any government effort to control their wants.

Prohibition and the war on drugs has pretty well proven that Americans will get what they want, when they want it, whether government likes it or not. Millions of semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals and the black market that supplies them. Neither you, nor the government, has a snowball's chance in hell of getting those guns away from them.

So, in short, your solution is NOTHING.

Meanwhile, the Left is offering Plan A, and Plan B, and so forth.

This is how the Left advances.

To the contrary, my plan is to make deliberate murder, or manslaughter of an innocent while attempting to commit murder a capital crime requiring the death sentence. That sentence to be carried out in public within one year of the conviction. Hang the perpetrator in his own neighborhood.

Mass murderers who die on the scene, should be publicly dumped into a garbage truck and hauled off to a landfill. His/her relatives could retrieve the body there, if they desire to do so. If the mass murderer survives, he should be put in chains and dragged off to jail through the streets where he can feel the wrath of an enraged community. Mass shootings would become rare.

 

[Timmy]

You gun nuts would make it possible for machete guy to have an AR 15 instead .

 

[EGR one]

EXAMPLES PLEASE -

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Horrible illogic.

It is idiotic to claim poverty doesn't cause crime just because there are poor who don't commit crime! Holy shit!

The poor commit crimes way out of proportion to their demographic.

Poverty is a primary cause of crime.

Why the hell do you think kids join gangs? Because of poverty.

You don't see rich kids gang banging.

You cannot claim a cause and effect if the majority or the population affected by the cause do not experience the effect. Kids join gangs because they see no other future for themselves. A large number of gang bangers do not expect to reach adulthood. Correlation is not cause and effect.

Rich kids are not hopeless.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

You gun nuts would make it possible for machete guy to have an AR 15 instead .

Lets see, FBI fails to do background check, and guy of 19 years old, gets to shoot 14 children. Guy who fails background check, cant get to shoot 14 children goes to Walmart buys a machete and tries to kill a family but is shot. You libtards want the government to stop guns, yet fails all the time. I will keep my weapons, just to keep fuckers like you out of my house.

 

[Slade3200]

EXAMPLES PLEASE -

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

You have to excuse g, he thinks he is an expert at everything. People kill people, not guns. People kill people for a lot of reasons but to Progressive like g it's never the person's fault, it's always do to circumstance or whatever else, but NEVER the "person".

It’s always the person, but they use guns to kill so guns can’t just be ignored. They are tools for death and destruction so they need to be handled responsibility. It’s not a hard concept

 

[g5000]

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Horrible illogic.

It is idiotic to claim poverty doesn't cause crime just because there are poor who don't commit crime! Holy shit!

The poor commit crimes way out of proportion to their demographic.

Poverty is a primary cause of crime.

Why the hell do you think kids join gangs? Because of poverty.

You don't see rich kids gang banging.

You cannot claim a cause and effect if the majority or the population affected by the cause do not experience the effect. Kids join gangs because they see no other future for themselves. A large number of gang bangers do not expect to reach adulthood. Correlation is not cause and effect.

Rich kids are not hopeless.

So you are actually confirming what I said about poverty. Duh!

Crime is not racial, it is economics.

 

[Slade3200]

I can't stop 11000 murders but If I can stop one (mine or my wife's) that's good enough reason to have a gun

What if you can stop 1 murder by limiting the firepower or magazine capacity of a gun in a school shooters hands. Say 16 deaths instead of 17 cause he had less bullets or had to reload... would that be worth it?

This is a good line of questioning.

If we make it more difficult to obtain guns, then we save lives. This has proven to be the case in other advanced nations.

The USA is not, and never has been, like other advanced nations. Americans are independent minded, distrustful of government at all levels, and resistant to any government effort to control their wants.

Prohibition and the war on drugs has pretty well proven that Americans will get what they want, when they want it, whether government likes it or not. Millions of semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals and the black market that supplies them. Neither you, nor the government, has a snowball's chance in hell of getting those guns away from them.

So, in short, your solution is NOTHING.

Meanwhile, the Left is offering Plan A, and Plan B, and so forth.

This is how the Left advances.

To the contrary, my plan is to make deliberate murder, or manslaughter of an innocent while attempting to commit murder a capital crime requiring the death sentence. That sentence to be carried out in public within one year of the conviction. Hang the perpetrator in his own neighborhood.

Mass murderers who die on the scene, should be publicly dumped into a garbage truck and hauled off to a landfill. His/her relatives could retrieve the body there, if they desire to do so. If the mass murderer survives, he should be put in chains and dragged off to jail through the streets where he can feel the wrath of an enraged community. Mass shootings would become rare.

They used to do all that stuff 100s of years ago. How did it work out?

 

[EGR one]

You gun nuts would make it possible for machete guy to have an AR 15 instead .

It is already possible for machete guy to have an AR-15, if he so desired, and had the funds to purchase one. Obviously, he thought the machete would do the job.

My proposal would be to register gun buyers, not guns.

In Canada, buying a gun takes about 60 days. Licensing agents are required to advise an applicant's spouse or next-of-kin prior to granting a license. In fact, they have to notify any significant other you lived with in the prior two years that you are buying a gun. And you have to take a gun safety course.

I would propose something similar. You take a safety course, and an in-depth background check is performed. I don't know how I feel about notifying your spouse or significant other you are buying a gun, but my wife likes that idea a lot. I could see how women would like this idea.

Once you meet these requirements, you are certified as a legal gun buyer.

Then you can go into any gun shop and the salesman can check your legal status on the computer. Then you can buy whatever you wish, and the government is not informed of what you bought.

Once you are certified as a legal gun buyer, you can buy or not buy guns, and the government won't know the difference.

If you need government permission to exercise a right, then it is no longer a right. Besides, conditions change, circumstances change, people change, and mental health changes. That is why driver licenses need to be renewed.

In addition, it would be far too easy for government to price the poor out of gun ownership through the cost of the license.

 

[EGR one]

What if you can stop 1 murder by limiting the firepower or magazine capacity of a gun in a school shooters hands. Say 16 deaths instead of 17 cause he had less bullets or had to reload... would that be worth it?

This is a good line of questioning.

If we make it more difficult to obtain guns, then we save lives. This has proven to be the case in other advanced nations.

The USA is not, and never has been, like other advanced nations. Americans are independent minded, distrustful of government at all levels, and resistant to any government effort to control their wants.

Prohibition and the war on drugs has pretty well proven that Americans will get what they want, when they want it, whether government likes it or not. Millions of semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals and the black market that supplies them. Neither you, nor the government, has a snowball's chance in hell of getting those guns away from them.

So, in short, your solution is NOTHING.

Meanwhile, the Left is offering Plan A, and Plan B, and so forth.

This is how the Left advances.

To the contrary, my plan is to make deliberate murder, or manslaughter of an innocent while attempting to commit murder a capital crime requiring the death sentence. That sentence to be carried out in public within one year of the conviction. Hang the perpetrator in his own neighborhood.

Mass murderers who die on the scene, should be publicly dumped into a garbage truck and hauled off to a landfill. His/her relatives could retrieve the body there, if they desire to do so. If the mass murderer survives, he should be put in chains and dragged off to jail through the streets where he can feel the wrath of an enraged community. Mass shootings would become rare.

They used to do all that stuff 100s of years ago. How did it work out?

It worked out very well. No recidivism.

 

[depotoo]

You must listen to it all the way thru



Mayor Dianne Feinstein [now U.S. Senator, D.-Cal.] moved yesterday to make San Francisco the nation's first major city to ban handguns for personal use.



UPI, Feinstein Seeks To Ban Handguns In San Francisco, Feb. 26, 1982.



* * *


Former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, San Antonio Mayor Henry Cisneros and Baltimore Mayor Kurt Schmoke signed the Communitarian Network's The Case for Domestic Disarmament, which among other thing said:



There is little sense in gun registration. What we need to significantly enhance public safety is domestic disarmament . . . . Domestic disarmament entails the removal of arms from private hands . . . . Given the proper political support by the people who oppose the pro-gun lobby, legislation to remove the guns from private hands, acts like the legislation drafted by Senator John Chafee [to ban handguns], can be passed in short order.



* * *


I shortly will introduce legislation banning the sale, manufacture or possession of handguns (with exceptions for law enforcement and licensed target clubs). . . . It is time to act. We cannot go on like this. Ban them!



Sen. John H. Chafee (R.-R.I.), In View of Handguns' Effects, There's Only One Answer: A Ban, Minneapolis Star Tribune, June 15, 1992, at 13A.



* * *


"My staff and I right now are working on a comprehensive gun-control bill. We don't have all the details, but for instance, regulating the sale and purchase of bullets. Ultimately, I would like to see the manufacture and possession of handguns banned except for military and police use. But that's the endgame. And in the meantime, there are some specific things that we can do with legislation." Evan Osnos, Bobby Rush; Democrat, U.S. House of Representatives, Chicago Tribune, Dec. 5, 1999, at C3 (quoting Rep. Bobby Rush (D-Ill.)).



* * *


Mr. Speaker, my bill prohibits the importation, exportation, manufacture, sale, purchase, transfer, receipt, possession, or transportation of handguns and handgun ammunition. It establishes a 6-month grace period for the turning in of handguns. It provides many exceptions for gun clubs, hunting clubs, gun collectors, and other people of that kind.



Rep. Major Owens (D-Brooklyn, N.Y.), 139 Cong. Rec. H9088 at H9094, Nov. 10, 1993.



* * *


Rep. William L. Clay (D-St. Louis, Mo.), said the Brady Bill is "the minimum step" that Congress should take to control handguns. "We need much stricter gun control, and eventually we should bar the ownership of handguns except in a few cases," Clay said.



Robert L. Koenig, NRA-Backed Measure May Derail Brady Bill, St. Louis Post Dispatch, May 8, 1993, at 1A.



* * *


Maryland Attorney General J. Joseph Curran is proposing a wide-ranging package of laws that would make the state's gun control regulations among the strictest in the nation and says his ultimate goal is a ban on handguns.



Daniel LeDuc, Tough Laws For Guns Proposed In Maryland; Attorney General Says Goal Is Ban, Wash. Post, Oct. 20, 1999, at A01.



* * *


[Peter] Jennings: And the effect of the assault rifle ban in Stockton? The price went up, gun stores sold out and police say that fewer than 20 were turned in. Still, some people in Stockton argue you cannot measure the effect that way. They believe there's value in making a statement that the implements of violence are unacceptable in our culture.



[Stockton, California] Mayor [Barbara] Fass: I think you have to do it a step at a time and I think that is what the NRA is most concerned about, is that it will happen one very small step at a time, so that by the time people have "woken up" -- quote -- to what's happened, it's gone farther than what they feel the consensus of American citizens would be. But it does have to go one step at a time and the beginning of the banning of semi-assault military weapons, that are military weapons, not "household" weapons, is the first step.



ABC News Special, Peter Jennings Reporting: Guns, April 11, 1991, available on LEXIS, NEWS database, SCRIPT file.



* * *


In a high-stakes political gamble, [Democrat-Farmer-Labor Minnesota] gubernatorial candidate Tony Bouza proposed a strict gun control program Tuesday that includes the confiscation and purchase by the state of most privately owned handguns.



Robert Whereatt, Bouza Says He'd Confiscate Majority of Handguns, Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Sept. 7, 1994, at 1A. (In Minnesota, the Democratic party is known as the Democrat-Farmer-Labor party.)
http://gunscholar.com/gunban.htm

So don’t say there hasn’t been a push for it. They are just more quiet than they used to be, attempting incremental steps to.

 

[EGR one]

EXAMPLES PLEASE -

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Huh? Where do you that stat from? I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of criminals in jail and gang bangers in the streets are in or from poverty. I see it first hand with the youth I work with in my community. Poverty is a huge driver of crime, how can you think otherwise?

The fact that most criminals and gang bangers come from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods does not mean that the poverty is the cause. Evidence to the contrary is that most of those in poverty do not commit crimes.

Many in poverty are taught by peers, schools, and the media that they have little chance at a positive future. That hopelessness is the cause that you are looking for.

 

[g5000]

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Huh? Where do you that stat from? I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of criminals in jail and gang bangers in the streets are in or from poverty. I see it first hand with the youth I work with in my community. Poverty is a huge driver of crime, how can you think otherwise?

The fact that most criminals and gang bangers come from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods does not mean that the poverty is the cause. Evidence to the contrary is that most of those in poverty do not commit crimes.

Wow. I just can't fight this kind of stupidity. Sorry.

The fact is that people living in poverty commit a level of crime which far exceeds their demographic. You are actually retarded enough to believe poverty has nothing to do with it just because ALL poor people are not committing crime!

HOLY SHIT!!!

And then you blame gang bangers being gang bangers because of "hoplessness". And why are they hopeless, dipshit? Because they live in poverty!

 

[EGR one]

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

You have to excuse g, he thinks he is an expert at everything. People kill people, not guns. People kill people for a lot of reasons but to Progressive like g it's never the person's fault, it's always do to circumstance or whatever else, but NEVER the "person".

It’s always the person, but they use guns to kill so guns can’t just be ignored. They are tools for death and destruction so they need to be handled responsibility. It’s not a hard concept

The vast majority of guns are handled responsibly. In fact, gun owners are a hell of a lot more responsible in the handling of guns than automobile owners are in the handling of their automobiles. And, the death toll is so much higher.

 

[Slade3200]

This is a good line of questioning.

If we make it more difficult to obtain guns, then we save lives. This has proven to be the case in other advanced nations.

The USA is not, and never has been, like other advanced nations. Americans are independent minded, distrustful of government at all levels, and resistant to any government effort to control their wants.

Prohibition and the war on drugs has pretty well proven that Americans will get what they want, when they want it, whether government likes it or not. Millions of semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals and the black market that supplies them. Neither you, nor the government, has a snowball's chance in hell of getting those guns away from them.

So, in short, your solution is NOTHING.

Meanwhile, the Left is offering Plan A, and Plan B, and so forth.

This is how the Left advances.

To the contrary, my plan is to make deliberate murder, or manslaughter of an innocent while attempting to commit murder a capital crime requiring the death sentence. That sentence to be carried out in public within one year of the conviction. Hang the perpetrator in his own neighborhood.

Mass murderers who die on the scene, should be publicly dumped into a garbage truck and hauled off to a landfill. His/her relatives could retrieve the body there, if they desire to do so. If the mass murderer survives, he should be put in chains and dragged off to jail through the streets where he can feel the wrath of an enraged community. Mass shootings would become rare.

They used to do all that stuff 100s of years ago. How did it work out?

It worked out very well. No recidivism.

Then why doesn’t it still exist. Surely a system that works very well should still be actively in use, right?

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

What if you can stop 1 murder by limiting the firepower or magazine capacity of a gun in a school shooters hands. Say 16 deaths instead of 17 cause he had less bullets or had to reload... would that be worth it?

This is a good line of questioning.

If we make it more difficult to obtain guns, then we save lives. This has proven to be the case in other advanced nations.

The USA is not, and never has been, like other advanced nations. Americans are independent minded, distrustful of government at all levels, and resistant to any government effort to control their wants.

Prohibition and the war on drugs has pretty well proven that Americans will get what they want, when they want it, whether government likes it or not. Millions of semi-automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals and the black market that supplies them. Neither you, nor the government, has a snowball's chance in hell of getting those guns away from them.

So, in short, your solution is NOTHING.

Meanwhile, the Left is offering Plan A, and Plan B, and so forth.

This is how the Left advances.

To the contrary, my plan is to make deliberate murder, or manslaughter of an innocent while attempting to commit murder a capital crime requiring the death sentence. That sentence to be carried out in public within one year of the conviction. Hang the perpetrator in his own neighborhood.

Mass murderers who die on the scene, should be publicly dumped into a garbage truck and hauled off to a landfill. His/her relatives could retrieve the body there, if they desire to do so. If the mass murderer survives, he should be put in chains and dragged off to jail through the streets where he can feel the wrath of an enraged community. Mass shootings would become rare.

They used to do all that stuff 100s of years ago. How did it work out?

There never was a repeat offender.....

 

[EGR one]

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Huh? Where do you that stat from? I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of criminals in jail and gang bangers in the streets are in or from poverty. I see it first hand with the youth I work with in my community. Poverty is a huge driver of crime, how can you think otherwise?

The fact that most criminals and gang bangers come from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods does not mean that the poverty is the cause. Evidence to the contrary is that most of those in poverty do not commit crimes.

Wow. I just can't fight this kind of stupidity. Sorry.

The fact is that people living in poverty commit a level of crime which far exceeds their demographic. You are actually retarded enough to believe poverty has nothing to do with it just because ALL poor people are not committing crime!

HOLY SHIT!!!

And then you blame gang bangers being gang bangers because of "hoplessness". And why are they hopeless, dipshit? Because they live in poverty!

You don't seem to understand your own argument. Let me type slow, maybe that will help you comprehend the obvious. People are not all hopeless because they live in poverty. Hopelessness is a subset of those in poverty. Most criminals and gang bangers come from that subset. They see no future for themselves, and therefore, figure they have nothing to lose by getting what they can now.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Unlike the rich elitist left wing commies protected by armed guards and behind walls, the middle class who dont have such luxuries, perfect example.

Gentleman breaking into the persons home with a machete with the intention of killing the man and his wife.

Fucking left wingers are losers. Esepcially the rich hypocritical white ones.

What is your proposal for mitigating the 11,000+ gun homicides in the US each year?

No plan but since they represent less than a percent of a percent of the population I see no real problem you don't mind 30000 dead from cars or 200000 dead from bad doctors so I see no problem at all.

 

[Slade3200]

For example, our homicide rate is three times times higher than Canada's.

Our gun homicide rate is 42 times higher.

I have outlined Canada's gun control laws in post 41.

How many black and Hispanic gang members (who commit 80% of our violent gun crimes) does Canada have?

Crime is not cause by race. It is primarily caused by poverty.

Murder, by gun, or any other weapon, has little to do with poverty. And, since the vast majority of those in poverty do not commit crimes, the poverty defense is nonsense. Hopelessness is the driver of violent crime, including gang banging.

Huh? Where do you that stat from? I’d be willing to bet that the vast majority of criminals in jail and gang bangers in the streets are in or from poverty. I see it first hand with the youth I work with in my community. Poverty is a huge driver of crime, how can you think otherwise?

The fact that most criminals and gang bangers come from poor and poverty stricken neighborhoods does not mean that the poverty is the cause. Evidence to the contrary is that most of those in poverty do not commit crimes.

Many in poverty are taught by peers, schools, and the media that they have little chance at a positive future. That hopelessness is the cause that you are looking for.

I could use your same tactic and say that hopelessness doesn’t cause crimes, there are many who are hopeless that don’t commit crimes, it’s violent tendencies and poor mental health that drive people to violence. It’s a pointless game of semantics. But we all know that poverty sets up and triggers many of those condidtions