Zone1 Personal relationship with Jesus.. and Once Saved Always Saved are NOT in the Bible

[ninja007]

Catechism and Baptism
By Sis. Sandy w/Tracy

Comparison between "Catechism of the Catholic Church"
(published in 1995 by Doubleday, 1540 Broadway, New York, New York 10036)
and the Bible -- the Authorized King James Version of 1611

RCC Catechism	Bible
Baptism necessary for salvation "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." (Pg. 352, #1257) "The Church does not know of any other means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude..." (Pg. 352, #1257) "The faithful are born anew by Baptism.."(Pg. 341, #1212).	Jesus necessary for salvation For mine eyes have seen thy salvation.. (Simeon speaking of Jesus) --Luke 2:30 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. --Acts 4:12 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth... -- Romans 1:16 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ... --I Thessalonians 5:9 ...obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. --2 Timothy 2:10 ...the holy scriptures,...are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. --2 Timothy 3:15 For it became him...to make the captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings. -- Heb 2:10 And being made perfect, he [Jesus] became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; -- Heb 5:9
RCC Catechism	Bible
Baptism cleanses us from sin Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte 'a new creature,'an adopted son of God, who has become a 'partaker of the divine nature,' member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit." (Pg.354, #1265) "By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin." (Pg. 353, #1263. see also pg. 279, #985). "Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, and are incorporated into the Church..." (Pg. 342, #1213).	Blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin "In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins..." --Ephesians 1:7 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins --Colossians 1:14 ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. --1 John 1:7 Whom [Jesus] God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past... --Romans 3:25 ...without shedding of blood is no remission. --Hebrews 9:22 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. --Hebrews 10:18
RCC Catechism	Bible
Sealed by water baptism "Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." (Pg.356, #1274)	Sealed by the Holy Ghost "..in whom also after that ye believed, YE WERE SEALED with that HOLY SPIRIT of promise." --Ephesians 1:13

To Think About...

• If "water baptism" is necessary for salvation as the Catholic religion insists, why did the great apostle Paul say:
  

  "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." --1 Cor. 1:17
  "I thank God that I baptized NONE OF YOU, but Crispus and Gaius;"
  --1 Cor. 1:12

  Answer: Because water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
  
  
• BELIEVING on the Lord Jesus Christ is the requirement for salvation, not baptism. The Scriptures are very clear that your salvation depends upon your belief, and your damnation depends upon your unbelief:
  

  He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth notthe Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. --John 3:36
  "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
  --John 3:16
  "He that believeth on him is not condemned: But he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
  --John 3:18

• Water baptism symbolizes the believers death, burial and resurrection with Christ (Rom 6:12, Col 2:12), symbolizes washing away of sins (Acts 22:16), and the answer of a good conscience towards God (I Peter 3:21).
  
  
• Water baptism comes AFTER one believes on Jesus Christ. Water baptism always follows salvation:
  

  1. In Acts 8:36-37, The Ethiopian eunuch asked, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?"
     And Philip replied, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." At this point in verse 39, the believing man was baptized.
     
     
  2. In Acts 16:30, 31, 33, the Philippian jailer asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
     And Paul replied, "BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ, and THOU SHALT BE SAVED..." ...And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
     
     
  3. In Acts 18:8, Crispus believed and was then baptized,
     "And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, BELIEVED ON THE LORD with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized."
     
     
  4. In Acts 2:41, they received the word from Peter and then were baptized.
     "...they that gladly received his word were baptized; and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls."
     
     
  5. Salvation first, THEN water baptism in Acts 8:12:
     "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." -Acts 8:12
     
     
  6. Same path in Acts 8:13:
     "Then Simon himself believed also; and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip..."

• The repentant thief on the cross died without being baptized, but what did Jesus say to him as they hung there? "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:43)
  
  
• Performing some ritual like water baptism could NEVER save for we can not be justified before God except through saving faith in Jesus.
  

  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. --Galatians 2:16
  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
  --Galatians 3:11
  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
  Romans 3:28

• What about those who think works like sprinkling of water save?
  

  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. --Galatians 5:4

Back to Catechism vs the Bible Table of Contents​

 

[ninja007]

Catechism and the Mass
By Sis. Sandy w/Tracy

Comparison between "Catechism of the Catholic Church"
(published in 1995 by Doubleday, 1540 Broadway, New York, New York 10036)
and the Bible -- the Authorized King James Version of 1611

RCC Catechism	Bible
Sacrifice in unbloody manner. The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priest, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner." (#1367, p.381)	Sacrifice in bloody manner. If it's the sacrifice of Jesus, it cannot be done in an "unbloody manner." According to the Bible: "and without the shedding of blood there is no remission." -Heb. 9:22 What happened at Calvary was a ONE time historical event and accomplished its purpose: "For by ONE OFFERING he HATH PERFECTED for ever them that are sanctified." -Heb.10:14
Jesus sacrificed often. "When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ's Passover, and it is made present. As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed is celebrated on the altar, the word of our redemption is carried out." (Pg. 380, #1364) "Every time this mystery is celebrated, 'the work of our redemption is carried on'..." (Pg. 393, #1405)	Jesus sacrificed one time. (a) According to the Bible, our redemption to put away sin was a ONE TIME ACT which was completed at the cross, and it is said to be FINISHED: "...by now ONCE in the end of the world hath he [Jesus] appeared TO PUT AWAY SIN by the sacrifice of himself." -Heb. 9:26 "By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL." -Heb. 9:26 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED:" -John 19:30 (b) This sacrifice is NEVER TO BE REPEATED DAILY: "Who NEEDETH NOT DAILY, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did ONCE, when he offered up himself." -Heb. 7:27 (c) The Bible specifically states that Christ's death was a ONE TIME EVENT: "So Christ was ONCE offered to bear the sins of many..." -Heb. 9:28 "But this man, after he had offered ONE SACRIFICE FOR SINS FOR EVER, sat down on the right hand of God;" -Heb. 10:12 "For Christ also hath ONCE suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit." -! Peter 3:18 (d) Jesus Christ is not present in the sacrifice of the Mass. There can no longer be an re-enactment of his sacrifice and death. Christ is risen and alive and sits at the right hand of the Father! "Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin ONCE; but in that he LIVETH, HE LIVETH UNTO GOD." -Rom. 6:9,10 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not: I am the first and the last: I am he THAT LIVETH, and was dead; and, behold, I AM ALIVE FOR EVERMORE," -Rev. 1:17,18 "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the RIGHT HAND OF GOD;" -Heb. 10:12 (e) The work of our redemption is not being carried out. Jesus said it is finished. One does not keep working on what has already been accomplished at the cross, the forgiveness of sins. "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED:.." -John 19:30 "...when he had by himself PURGED our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high." -Heb. 1:3 "So Christ was ONCE OFFERED to bear the sins of many;" -Heb. 9:28 "In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:" -Col. 1:14 "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." -Rom. 5:1 "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." -Rom. 5:6 "And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement." -Rom. 5:11
Worship a piece of bread and some wine as Jesus. "....we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. (#1378, p.385)	Do not worship objects. This is clearly condoning the worship of an object which is forbidden in the second commandment. God has clearly forbidden the worship of any images, and even those which are intended to represent him or any art to do with the Godhead. "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is IN HEAVEN above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:" -Ex. 20:5 "I am the LORD: that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither MY PRAISE to GRAVEN IMAGES." -Isa. 42:8 "We ought not to think the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, GRAVEN BY ART..." -Acts 17:29
Bread & wine help dead people into heaven. The Eucharistic sacrifice is also offered for the faithful departed who have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified, so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ. (#1371, p. 382).	It's too late for dead people. (a) Don't wait to get right with the real Jesus. It's too late once you are dead, for then comes judgment: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this THE JUDGMENT." -Heb. 9:27 (b) The eucharist is based a "tradition of men." The Bible tells us God sent his only begotten Son to be the Saviour of the world. "But AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." -John 1:12 There is a difference between "universal provision," (Saviour of the world) and "INDIVIDUAL APPLICATION" (as many as received Him). In other words, Jesus paid the price, but you've got to accept it.
Redemption is on-going. Every time this mystery is celebrated, "the work of our redemption is carried on"..." (#1405, p. 393). Christ's blood was poured out for our sins at the last supper.	Redemption complete in Jesus. (a) Again, the Bible says the sacrificial work of redemption is FINISHED. Oh, how the Bible stresses these important facts: On the cross Jesus cried,"It is finished" (John 19:30). He died ONCE (Heb. 7:27, 9:26, 10:12,14), NEVER to be repeated (Rom. 6:9-10; Heb. 10:10); and, THEN SAT DOWN (Heb. 1:3, 10:12; Rev. 3:21). If you don't believe this, then you are bound to a system that is of Satan. You will forever remain in bondage and fear for the eternal destiny of your soul based on the tradition of men. If you think Jesus is a piece of bread or a statue, you'll go to hell. (b) Being saved involves no work. No masses to be said, no rosaries, no personal sacrifices, no confessions to a priest to ensure your salvation. "For by GRACE ARE YE SAVED THROUGH FAITH, and that not OF YOURSELVES: it is the GIFT OF GOD; NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
Jesus is trapped in a tiny box. The tabernacle is to be situated "in church in a most worthy place with the greatest of honor. The dignity, placing, and security of the Eucharistic tabernacle should foster adoration before the Lord really present in the Blessed Sacrament of the altar." (#1183, p. 335).	Jesus lives in heaven. This flies in the face of Scripture itself: "Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, HEAVEN IS MY THRONE, AND EARTH IS MY FOOTSTOOL; WHAT HOUSE WILL YE BUILD ME? SAITH THE LORD: OR WHAT IS THE PLACE OF MY REST? -Acts 7:48,49
The eucharist is Jesus. The Eucharist presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharist species subsist. (#1377, p. 385)	The eucharist is not Jesus. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts and creeping things. Test the Eucharist. If the Eucharist is to be the ACTUAL body and blood of Jesus Christ at the moment of consecration, then it should not decay. "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, NEITHER DID HIS FLESH SEE CORRUPTION." "For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, NEITHER WILT THOU SUFFER THINE HOLY ONE TO SEE CORRUPTION." -Psalm 16:10 Has the priest ever left the bread (body of Christ) long enough to see if it breeds mold and worms? If it does, it is NOT the Body of Christ! Please don't be deceived. Believe Jesus died for your sins and he now sits at the right hand of God. Don't believe for one moment that mere men can lock him up in buildings all over the world.

 

[ninja007]

Question

​

Is worship of saints / Mary biblical?​

Answer

The Bible is absolutely clear that we are to worship God alone. The only instances of anyone other than God receiving worship in the Bible are false gods, which are Satan and his demons. All followers of the Lord God refuse worship. Peter and the apostles refused to be worshiped (Acts 10:25–26; 14:13–14). The holy angels refuse to be worshiped (Revelation 19:10; 22:9). The response is always the same, “Worship God!”

Roman Catholics attempt to “bypass” these clear Scriptural principles by claiming they do not “worship” Mary or saints, but rather that they only “venerate” Mary and the saints. Using a different word does not change the essence of what is being done. A definition of “venerate” is “to regard with respect or reverence.” Nowhere in the Bible are we told to revere anyone but God alone. There is nothing wrong with respecting those faithful Christians who have gone before us (see Hebrews chapter 11). There is nothing wrong with honoring Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus. The Bible describes Mary as “highly favored” by God (Luke 1:28). At the same time, there is no instruction in the Bible to revere those who have gone to heaven. We are to follow their example, yes, but worship, revere, or venerate, no!

When forced to admit that they do, in fact, worship Mary, Catholics will claim that they worship God through her, by praising the wonderful creation that God has made. Mary, in their minds, is the most beautiful and wonderful creation of God, and by praising her, they are praising her Creator. For Catholics, this is analogous to directing praise to an artist by praising his sculpture or painting. The problem with this is that God explicitly commands against worshiping Him through created things. We are not to bow down and worship the form of anything in heaven above or earth below (Exodus 20:4–5). Romans 1:25 could not be more clear: “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.” Yes, God has created wonderful and amazing things. Yes, Mary was a godly woman who is worthy of our respect. No, we absolutely are not to worship God “vicariously” by praising things (or people) He has created. Doing so is blatant idolatry.

The major way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the saints is by praying to them. But prayer to anyone other than God alone is anti-biblical. Whether Mary and/or the saints are prayed to, or whether they are petitioned for their prayers—neither practice is biblical. Prayer is an act of worship. When we pray to God, we are admitting that we need His help. Directing our prayers to anyone other than God is robbing God of the glory that is His alone.

Another way Catholics “venerate” Mary and the saints is by creating statues and images of them. Many Catholics use images of Mary and/or the saints as “good luck charms.” Any cursory reading of the Bible will reveal this practice as blatant idolatry (Exodus 20:4–6; 1 Corinthians 12:1–2; 1 John 5:21). Rubbing rosary beads is idolatry. Lighting candles before a statue or portrayal of a saint is idolatry. Burying a Joseph statue in hopes of selling your home (and countless other Catholic practices) is idolatry.

The terminology is not the issue. Whether the practice is described as “worship” or “veneration” or any other term, the problem is the same. Any time we ascribe something that belongs to God to someone else, it is idolatry. The Bible nowhere instructs us to revere, pray to, rely on, or “idolize” anyone other than God. We are to worship God alone. Glory, praise, and honor belong to God alone. Only God is worthy to “receive glory and honor and power” (Revelation 4:11). God alone is worthy to receive our worship, adoration, and praise (Nehemiah 9:6; Revelation 15:4).

 

[ninja007]

The False Hope of Purgatory​

by John MacArthur

Wednesday, July 13, 2022





This post was originally published in July 2018. –ed.
Let’s be clear from the outset: The Roman Catholic doctrine of purgatory is taught nowhere in Scripture. It was invented to accommodate Catholicism’s denial of justification by faith alone. And it offers false hope to millions who anticipate ample time beyond the grave—perhaps eons, if necessary—to achieve their own justification.
Scripture very clearly teaches that an absolutely perfect righteousness is necessary for entry into heaven. Jesus said, “I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:20). He then added, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matthew 5:48)—thus setting the standard as high as it can possibly be set.
The Only Way to Heaven
Later in His ministry, when the rich young ruler approached Jesus to ask how he might enter heaven, Jesus upheld this same standard of absolute perfection. He began by challenging the clear implication that the young man hoped he could attain a sufficient goodness of his own to merit heaven: “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good” (Matthew 19:17). Notice: Jesus did not disclaim that He Himself was sinlessly perfect (a common misinterpretation of this passage). He was simply pointing out plainly that the standard of perfection required to earn heaven is impossible for fallen creatures.
Because the young man was undeterred by this, however, Jesus told him that to obtain eternal life, he must have a track record of perfect obedience to the law (Matthew 19:17-22). Again and again, Jesus made the required standard of righteousness impossibly high for all who would seek to earn God’s favor on their own.
The young ruler clearly did not understand or acknowledge his own sinfulness. He assured Jesus that he had indeed kept the law from his youth up (v. 20).
Jesus subtly pointed out the young man’s covetousness (v. 21), which was a violation of the tenth commandment. From the outset of His conversation with the young man, the Lord was prodding him to confess that no one but God Himself is truly good. But the rich young ruler was unwilling to face his own sinfulness, and so he went away without salvation.
The disciples marveled at this. The young man was evidently—from a human perspective—one of the most righteous individuals they’d encountered. Notice that no one disputed his claim that he had obeyed the law. That suggests there were no overt sins in his life that anyone could point to. He seemed the best of men. So the disciples were floored when he walked away with no assurance of eternal life from Jesus. In fact, Jesus told them, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:23-24).
There’s no mistaking Jesus’ point. He was setting the standard at an impossible height. He was saying that the most fastidious legal observance is not enough. The most flawless external righteousness is not enough. All the worldly advantages of wealth are of no help. Only absolute perfection is acceptable to God. Our Lord kept underscoring these truths because He wanted people to see the utter futility of trying to earn righteousness by any system of works.
The disciples got the message. They asked, “Then who can be saved?” (Matthew 19:25).
And Jesus replied, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).
Accepted By Imputation
We know from Paul’s treatise on justification in Romans 4 that God saves believers by imputing to them the merit of Christ’s perfect righteousness—by no means because of their own righteousness. God accepts believers “in Christ.” He clothes them with the perfect righteousness of Christ. He declares them perfectly righteous because of Christ. Their sins have been imputed to Christ, who has paid the full penalty. His righteousness is now imputed to them and—through His imputed righteousness—they receive His full merit. That is what justification by faith means. The Father “made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).
In other words, God does not first make us perfect, then accept us on that basis. He first legally justifies us by imputing to us an alien righteousness, then perfects us by conforming us to the image of Christ. He “justifies the ungodly” (Romans 4:5).
Paul wrote, “Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). “Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus” (Romans 8:1). Those verses describe our justification as something already accomplished—a completed reality, not something we are striving for. Jesus Himself described justification as an immediate event when He told how the repentant publican was saved after begging God for mercy: “I tell you, this man went to his house justified” (Luke 18:14).
Scripture clearly and consistently attests to justification as a settled fact for every believer; it is not an ongoing process. We stand before God in faith right now, fully acceptable to Him because of Christ’s righteousness—not because of any doings of our own.
False Doctrine and False Hope
Roman Catholic doctrine denies all of that. Catholicism teaches that justification is an ongoing process that depends on the degree of real, personal righteousness we achieve. According to Rome, Christ’s merit imputed to us is not enough to save; we must earn more merit of our own through the sacraments and other good works. Righteousness is infused into us (rather than being imputed to us). But it is obvious that we are not perfectly righteous by any practical measure. So the righteousness we obtain by grace must be perfected by our own efforts.
According to Catholic teaching, this real, personal righteousness that resides in us is the necessary ground on which God accepts us. And our justification is not complete until we are really and completely perfect—by an inherent righteousness, not merely by a legally imputed righteousness. This actually reverses the biblical order, suggesting that we must first be perfected, and only then is our justification complete. In other words, in Roman Catholic doctrine, God does not justify the ungodly.
The Catholic view of justification poses an obvious dilemma. We know too well that even the best Christians fall far short of perfection. No one (Catholic teaching actually says almost no one) achieves absolute perfection in this life. And if our own perfection is a prerequisite for heaven, it would seem no one could enter there immediately upon dying. Any remaining imperfections would need to be worked out first.
The invention of purgatory was necessary to solve this dilemma. Deny that we are justified by faith alone, and you must devise an explanation of how we can make the transition from our imperfect state in this life to the perfect state of heaven. Purgatory is where Roman Catholics believe most people go after death to be finally purged of their remaining guilt and gain whatever merit they may be lacking to enter heaven. Catholicism teaches that this process involves intense pain and suffering.
Oddly enough, although Catholic doctrine denies that the imputed righteousness of Christ is sufficient to save sinners in this life, it does allow the imputation of righteousness from living sinners to those in purgatory. This is why masses are said for the dead. Supposedly the righteousness earned by way of the sacrament is imputed to the person in purgatory, which shortens his or her stay there.
The Catholic doctrine of purgatory offers false hope to people hoping to atone for their own sins on the other side of the grave. Rome’s warped and perverted view of justification will undoubtedly usher into eternal torment many who expected to have more time to achieve perfection.

 

[Meriweather]

I made up the Immaculate Conception?

No, that is in the Bible. The angel noted that Mary had been graced/favored.

 

[Meriweather]

I made up the ascension of Mary?

Yes, you did. Mary did not ascend into heaven; tradition says she was assumed into heaven. (The first is something one does on her own; the second is done by God.)

 

[Meriweather]

Why are these necessary?

I am confused. Whoever said they were necessary? Is a turkey at Thanksgiving necessary? Is a decorated tree necessary at Christmas? The Immaculate Conception and Assumption into heaven are mysteries/events we are happy to note as they involve Christ and the redemption of the world.

 

[Meriweather]

If the Bible nowhere states tradition is inspired, or beneficial, how do Catholics arrive at this?

Apostolic tradition preceded the Christian Bible...by about three hundred years. The Bible was added to tradition, not vice-versa.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Catechism and Baptism
By Sis. Sandy w/Tracy

Comparison between "Catechism of the Catholic Church"
(published in 1995 by Doubleday, 1540 Broadway, New York, New York 10036)
and the Bible -- the Authorized King James Version of 1611

RCC Catechism	Bible
Baptism necessary for salvation "The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation." (Pg. 352, #1257) "The Church does not know of any other means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude..." (Pg. 352, #1257) "The

​

I got this far

In the BIBLE (remember that book?) it says

Baptism now saveth you

But once you throw out the Church that produced or put together the books of the Bible.. you will ineveitably toss out the Bible as well

 

[notmyfault2020]

Apostolic tradition preceded the Christian Bible...by about three hundred years. The Bible was added to tradition, not vice-versa.

good point that protestants always forget, if they knew it in the first place.

But the antiCatholics here don't think they have to study before spouting off about the Church. They are experts on it without knowing a thing! sheez...

Try that in a chemistry class in college.. Go into the class and say to theteacher: You are wrong about the chemical makeup of all these substances! I just know... someone TOLD me that it is [insert bs here] so who are u to teach all this?

Yes, it is THAT ridiculous

I am not going to respond anymore to people who have not been all the way through a RCIA class.

It's FREE. There are usually even refreshments. Where's the excuse to not go?

True, it is NO Churches you will likely go to since sspx are hard to find.. But I don't think most of the rcia classes are... corrupt to the core? Haven't been to one lately so not sure.. Still, the point is, if you want to discuss a topic, be informed about it.

 

[SweetSue92]

good point that protestants always forget, if they knew it in the first place.

But the antiCatholics here don't think they have to study before spouting off about the Church. They are experts on it without knowing a thing! sheez...

Try that in a chemistry class in college.. Go into the class and say to theteacher: You are wrong about the chemical makeup of all these substances! I just know... someone TOLD me that it is [insert bs here] so who are u to teach all this?

Yes, it is THAT ridiculous

I am not going to respond anymore to people who have not been all the way through a RCIA class.

It's FREE. There are usually even refreshments. Where's the excuse to not go?

True, it is NO Churches you will likely go to since sspx are hard to find.. But I don't think most of the rcia classes are... corrupt to the core? Haven't been to one lately so not sure.. Still, the point is, if you want to discuss a topic, be informed about it.

Um. The Book of Mark was written around the time of the destruction of the Temple--a couple of decades or so after Jesus died. In the ancient world that's like a news flash. The other Gospels and epistles came soon after.

That's first.

Second, I would like to remind you that YOU started this thread with a rather aggressive tone. I think the Catholic Church is wrong about many things, but I'm not anti-Catholic believers. Many of them will be in heaven with me!

 

[SweetSue92]

I am confused. Whoever said they were necessary? Is a turkey at Thanksgiving necessary? Is a decorated tree necessary at Christmas? The Immaculate Conception and Assumption into heaven are mysteries/events we are happy to note as they involve Christ and the redemption of the world.

We don't "venerate" a turkey or tree. It is food. And decorations.

The tales around Mary, however....

 

[notmyfault2020]

I notice this other thing about those who misunderstand (and don't CARE that they do so) the Catholic faith but act like experts on the CC just the same:

They rarely actually respond to something I have said with any kind of cogent comment.. No, they just argue the same basic talking points.. and say such not-saying-anything things like I disagree with Catholics on some things.. (not speaking of that doc dude who is open minded) never really bringing up what those things are.. and how can they, really, when they are just spouting what their pastor told them that Cahtolics believe?



whatever.. I am not going there..

 

[Meriweather]

The tales around Mary, however....

Yes, non-Catholics invent tales about Catholics around Mary that surpass the tales of Paul Bunyan.

 

[notmyfault2020]

Yes, non-Catholics invent tales about Catholics around Mary that surpass the tales of Paul Bunyan.

don't get your answer

but maybe you are like me more/less.. tired of the anti-catholic, based on ignorance stuff..

so you just sarcastically "agree" with them

?

Oh wait.. sorry about that.. didn't see the NON (Catholics) there..

now I'll have to read the thing again..

OK.. I get it now - carry on

 

[Meriweather]

But the antiCatholics here don't think they have to study before spouting off about the Church. They are experts on it without knowing a thing! sheez...

I see them more as Abraham Lincoln saw small boys with their snowballs aiming for the top hats so popular at the time. Mr. Lincoln noted that those snowballs were never aimed at the top hats worn by small men--but at the top hats worn by tall men who were head and shoulders above the crowd.

It must be frustrating for non-Catholics. In order to find something to criticize about Catholic rites and worship, they have to make something up. If their faith puts them where they want/need to be, there is certainly no need to spend time attempting, with falsehoods, to tear down the faith of others. It is almost like they are afraid of missing out on something, therefore they work to destroy so there is nothing for them to miss.

 

[notmyfault2020]

I see them more as Abraham Lincoln saw small boys with their snowballs aiming for the top hats so popular at the time. Mr. Lincoln noted that those snowballs were never aimed at the top hats worn by small men--but at the top hats worn by tall men who were head and shoulders above the crowd.

It must be frustrating for non-Catholics. In order to find something to criticize about Catholic rites and worship, they have to make something up. If their faith puts them where they want/need to be, there is certainly no need to spend time attempting, with falsehoods, to tear down the faith of others. It is almost like they are afraid of missing out on something, therefore they work to destroy so there is nothing for them to miss.

hmmm... interesting.. never thought of that last thing b4 but maybe u are on to something..

The implication seems to be (in your words) tht they KNOW they are basing their accusations on falsehoods.

I always thought it was just ignorance.. but.. who knows? depends on the person ofcourse..

anyway, yeh.. if theirfaith is so great and makes them LOVE people more (ha ha to that)

why do they have the need to put down the faith of others.. esp if they don't even understand what saidfaith is?

 

[ninja007]

The Bible speaks plainly concerning salvation, "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish" (John 10:28a). When Jesus says, "they shall never perish," He is simply saying that every born-again believer is "preserved in Jesus Christ." God watches over His children and delivers them unto eternal life as He has PROMISED. God does not require His children to persevere as part of saving-faith; no, rather, God preserves us by His mighty power, sealing us with the Holy Spirit, and finishing the good work He hath begun in us. Perseverance places the burden of salvation upon mankind, which is sinful self-righteousness; BUT, the Word of God teaches that salvation is solely of the Lord, and God preserves each believer in Christ Jesus. We are saved by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, i.e., the righteousness of Jesus Christ which God imputes (attributes to) our record at the time of salvation. 2nd Corinthians 5:21, "For He hath made Him to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him." Amen!

 

[ninja007]

How To Go To Heaven
According to the holy Word of God in the King James Bible!​

​

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It is very simple to be saved and takes only a minute to explain. Please let me show you how to get to Heaven from the Bible, God's Word...

1. 
   Man is a Sinner in the Eyes of a Holy God.

• Isaiah 53:6, “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
• Romans 3:19, “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
• John 3:3, “Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
• Romans 3:10, “As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one.”
• Romans 3:23, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

1. There is a Price For Our Sin―Burning in Hell Forever.

• Romans 6:23, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
• Romans 5:12, “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”
• 2nd Thessalonians 1:8, “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
• Revelation 20:15, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”
• Revelation 21:8, “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.”

1. Jesus paid that price by dying on the cross and shedding His blood; Christ was buried and bodily rose again the third day!

• 
  Romans 5:8, “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”
• John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
• 1st Timothy 1:15, “This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”
• 1st Peter 1:18-19, “Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ...”
• 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, “Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.” This is the Gospel.

1. By faith in Jesus Christ ALONE we are immediately saved.
   • Galatians 3:26, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”
   • John 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.”
   • John 6:28-29, “Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”
   • Ephesians 2:8-9, “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
   • John 14:6, “Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
   • John 6:40, “And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.”
   • Mark 1:15, “And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
   • Acts 26:18, “To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.”
   • Romans 10:13, “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
   • 1st Corinthians 3:11, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.”
   • Galatians 3:26, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.”

How To Go To Heaven

Jesus Christ is the ONLY Way to Heaven!

www.jesus-is-savior.com

 

[ninja007]

ETERNAL SECURITY​

By David J. Stewart | March 2009​

Galatians 2:16, “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”​

Chapter 7 — The Hypocrisy of the Critics of Eternal Security​

The biggest flaw in the thinking of the enemies of Eternal Security is that they fail to realize just how sinful they are themselves. They hypocritically condemn other believers who live in unrepentant sin, failing to realize that they're just as sinful in God's eyes. If salvation can be lost, then who is righteous enough to keep their own salvation? Only a self-righteous hypocrite would claim to be self-righteous enough to please God. Isaiah 64:6 puts them to shame...

"But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away."

Oh listen my friend, do you have any idea just how sinful you and I are? Please read this brief excerpt from Jonathan Edwards' famous sermon, “SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD”...

“The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you, and is dreadfully provoked: his wrath towards you burns like fire; he looks upon you as worthy of nothing else, but to be cast into the fire; he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight; you are ten thousand times more abominable in his eyes, than the most hateful venomous serpent is in ours. You have offended him infinitely more than ever a stubborn rebel did his prince; and yet it is nothing but his hand that holds you from falling into the fire every moment. It is to be ascribed to nothing else, that you did not go to hell the last night; that you was suffered to awake again in this world, after you closed your eyes to sleep. And there is no other reason to be given, why you have not dropped into hell since you arose in the morning, but that God's hand has held you up. There is no other reason to be given why you have not gone to hell, since you have sat here in the house of God, provoking his pure eyes by your sinful wicked manner of attending his solemn worship. Yea, there is nothing else that is to be given as a reason why you do not this very moment drop down into hell.”

SOURCE: SINNERS IN THE HANDS OF AN ANGRY GOD! by Jonathan Edwards; preached in Enfield, Connecticut; July 8, 1741.

Amen! Now with the words of Jonathan Edward's in mind, it should be obvious to you just how hypocritical the people are who teach that some believers can lose their salvation by living in sin. If that were the case, then we'd all immediately drop down into the fires of Hell beneath. The very notion that certain sins can cause a believer to lose salvation is insane. Folks, we ALL deserve to go straight to Hell, right now! I don't care how self-righteous you may think you are, you deserve to plunge without delay into the Lake of Fire. This blasts the entire Lordship Salvation crowd out of the water. If salvation can be lost, then we've ALL lost it a long time ago. What arrogance for anyone to claim that some believers are bigger sinners than others, and have therefore lost salvation. That's a bunch of garbage not taught anywhere in the Scriptures. We all deserve to go directly to Hell, or as they say in the board game Monopoly... Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Is there any among us without sin?


I thank God that my salvation is solely in the hands of my righteous Savior, Jesus Christ; and not dependent upon my own sorry, frail, insufficient, rotten and sinful self-righteousness. Critics of Eternal Security are hypocrites. They are no less sinful than the adulterous and murderous believers they condemn. They condemn other believers, whom they consider more sinful than themselves, accusing others of losing their salvation, but they're just as much dirty, rotten, hell-deserving sinners, who fail to see the sinful beam in their own eye.

Those who DON'T believe in Eternal Security have a completely different mindset towards salvation. They DON'T have the blessed peace and assurance which comes from resting upon the promises of God. Jesus is our Sabbath, upon whom we solely rest for our salvation. Titus 1:2 speaks of the promise of eternal life, from God Who cannot lie, "In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began." Amen!


As Christians, we can KNOW that we are saved, because our salvation is not rooted in merit or works, but upon the finished work of Christ. Our salvation is based upon God's love for undeserving sinners, not upon our own self-righteousness. To say that a believer is not eternally secure in Christ, is to lower the Christian faith to the level of the woeful Islamic Muslim religion, which offers no security to it's followers. In Islam, you do your best, and hope to make it. Isn't this the same garbage that is being propagated by those who claim that there is NO security in Christ? I find it a great hypocrisy for anyone to claim to be wholly trusting the Savior for salvation, while at the same time holding to the self-righteous idea that we can mess things up if we backslide and walk into sin. If the latter be true, then our salvation is dependent upon man, as much as it is upon God. The Word of God is clear on this matter in Jonah 2:9, "Salvation is of the LORD."