Peter Schiff weighs in on the state of Detroit

[THORAX]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHMhG9Trh0s]Detroit Destroyed by Democracy - YouTube[/ame]

Pretty depressing to think the whole rest of the country is headed in the same direction Detroit is headed in.

This simple fact is the reason why I don't plan on having children because I feel bringing new life into such a degenerated and failing society would be cruel to that child.

Sad. But I suppose America is no different than empires of the past. Empires rise and fall and America is no exception to this rule.

The Imperialist in Washington have sold us down the river.

 

[Mad Scientist]

This is what Globalism and Free Trade Agreements do.

 

[Avorysuds]

Look, a real economist who can explain why policies work and why certain policies don't work. The haters will hate as they would rather defend a city of uneducated people over someone who has an actual education.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

To piggback off your thread, I read this one this morning:

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here! - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here!Scott Shackford|Jul. 22, 2013 11:53 am

Credit: dreaming_of_rivers / Foter / CC BY-NCWe know economist Paul Krugman has taken to avoiding reading competing economic and political theories, but has he given up all reading altogether in order to perhaps avoid accidental exposure? In Sunday’s New York Times, Krugman tackles the Detroit bankruptcy and determines that the important thing is that we stop comparing America’s various fiscal problems with Greece’s:

As you may recall, a few years ago Greece plunged into fiscal crisis. This was a bad thing but should have had limited effects on the rest of the world; the Greek economy is, after all, quite small (actually, about one and a half times as big as the economy of metropolitan Detroit). Unfortunately, many politicians and policy makers used the Greek crisis to hijack the debate, changing the subject from job creation to fiscal rectitude.

Now, the truth was that Greece was a very special case, holding few if any lessons for wider economic policy — and even in Greece, budget deficits were only one piece of the problem. Nonetheless, for a while policy discourse across the Western world was completely “Hellenized” — everyone was Greece, or was about to turn into Greece. And this intellectual wrong turn did huge damage to prospects for economic recovery.

What made Greece such a very special case? Why is it so different from, say, Spain’s economic situation? Or even Detroit’s? Why is an economist saying there’s little to learn about economic policy from a failing state? All of this is simply asserted.

Krugman, amazingly, pivots to argue that Detroit’s budgets and pension obligations are not part of the problem:

Never mind the repeated failure of the predicted U.S. fiscal crisis to materialize, the sharp fall in predicted U.S. debt levels and the way much of the research the scolds used to justify their scolding has been discredited; let’s obsess about municipal budgets and public pension obligations!

Or, actually, let’s not.

Are Detroit’s woes the leading edge of a national public pensions crisis? No. State and local pensions are indeed underfunded, with experts at Boston College putting the total shortfall at $1 trillion. But many governments are taking steps to address the shortfall. These steps aren’t yet sufficient; the Boston College estimates suggest that overall pension contributions this year will be about $25 billion less than they should be. But in a $16 trillion economy, that’s just not a big deal — and even if you make more pessimistic assumptions, as some but not all accountants say you should, it still isn’t a big deal.

the rest, plus links to cite source at teh above link.

 

[william the wie]

To piggback off your thread, I read this one this morning:

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here! - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here!Scott Shackford|Jul. 22, 2013 11:53 am

Credit: dreaming_of_rivers / Foter / CC BY-NCWe know economist Paul Krugman has taken to avoiding reading competing economic and political theories, but has he given up all reading altogether in order to perhaps avoid accidental exposure? In Sunday’s New York Times, Krugman tackles the Detroit bankruptcy and determines that the important thing is that we stop comparing America’s various fiscal problems with Greece’s:

As you may recall, a few years ago Greece plunged into fiscal crisis. This was a bad thing but should have had limited effects on the rest of the world; the Greek economy is, after all, quite small (actually, about one and a half times as big as the economy of metropolitan Detroit). Unfortunately, many politicians and policy makers used the Greek crisis to hijack the debate, changing the subject from job creation to fiscal rectitude.

Now, the truth was that Greece was a very special case, holding few if any lessons for wider economic policy — and even in Greece, budget deficits were only one piece of the problem. Nonetheless, for a while policy discourse across the Western world was completely “Hellenized” — everyone was Greece, or was about to turn into Greece. And this intellectual wrong turn did huge damage to prospects for economic recovery.

What made Greece such a very special case? Why is it so different from, say, Spain’s economic situation? Or even Detroit’s? Why is an economist saying there’s little to learn about economic policy from a failing state? All of this is simply asserted.

Krugman, amazingly, pivots to argue that Detroit’s budgets and pension obligations are not part of the problem:

Never mind the repeated failure of the predicted U.S. fiscal crisis to materialize, the sharp fall in predicted U.S. debt levels and the way much of the research the scolds used to justify their scolding has been discredited; let’s obsess about municipal budgets and public pension obligations!

Or, actually, let’s not.

Are Detroit’s woes the leading edge of a national public pensions crisis? No. State and local pensions are indeed underfunded, with experts at Boston College putting the total shortfall at $1 trillion. But many governments are taking steps to address the shortfall. These steps aren’t yet sufficient; the Boston College estimates suggest that overall pension contributions this year will be about $25 billion less than they should be. But in a $16 trillion economy, that’s just not a big deal — and even if you make more pessimistic assumptions, as some but not all accountants say you should, it still isn’t a big deal.

the rest, plus links to cite source at teh above link.

80-90% of states are nowhere near being in trouble, the percentage of local governments in serious trouble are lower still. that translates into catastrophic failure for upto 5 states and another 5 that might go technically insolvent in the crisis but are not likely to go bankrupt. So the shortfall is not the problem but the distribution of the shortfall most certainly is.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

That's not really the point. It's addressed later in the piece. The point is that these public pensions are in fact, participating, and heavily, in the bankruptcy of Detroit. Perhaps more so, the corruption of the Detroit govt.

Just like Greece bailout was done under the contingency of reducing the public sector workforce. So apparently, it wasn't small, but out sized for the ability to be funded. At all. Considering they too had pension issue, a catalyst or at player in Greece's financial woes.

 

[william the wie]

That's not really the point. It's addressed later in the piece. The point is that these public pensions are in fact, participating, and heavily, in the bankruptcy of Detroit. Perhaps more so, the corruption of the Detroit govt.

Just like Greece bailout was done under the contingency of reducing the public sector workforce. So apparently, it wasn't small, but out sized for the ability to be funded. At all. Considering they too had pension issue, a catalyst or at player in Greece's financial woes.

My apologies I thought you were stating that the problem was minor, which on average it is, but in particular cases are not

 

[TakeAStepBack]

So it is, but it isn't, but it is. Thanks.

 

[Kimura]

Look, a real economist who can explain why policies work and why certain policies don't work. The haters will hate as they would rather defend a city of uneducated people over someone who has an actual education.

Peter Schiff isn't an economist. He's a stock broker. An extraordinarily shitty one if you look at his track record for his clients.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Peter Schiff isn't an economist.

well he didn't cause the Depression or current recession so he may know more than so called economists.

If he's mistaken about something important why be so afraid to tell us what it is or at least admit you lack the IQ to do so. You don't seem to realize that your constant personal attacks are a way to avoid substance. Think about it.

 

[Kimura]

Peter Schiff isn't an economist.

well he didn't cause the Depression or current recession so he may know more than so called economists.

If he's mistaken about something important why be so afraid to tell us what it is or at least admit you lack the IQ to do so. You don't seem to realize that your constant personal attacks are a way to avoid substance. Think about it.

My personal attacks? LOL. Okay....

Peter Schiff has been saying the same shit for over a decade. His various "decoupling" theories and foreign stock adventurism lost his clients a FORTUNE.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Peter Schiff isn't an economist.

well he didn't cause the Depression or current recession so he may know more than so called economists.

If he's mistaken about something important why be so afraid to tell us what it is or at least admit you lack the IQ to do so. You don't seem to realize that your constant personal attacks are a way to avoid substance. Think about it.

My personal attacks? LOL. Okay....

Peter Schiff has been saying the same shit for over a decade. His various "decoupling" theories and foreign stock adventurism lost his clients a FORTUNE.

dear, you said he wasn't an economist?? Where is he wrong about economics? Who on earth cares about his stocks. Will you even be educated if you always go to trivia or change the subject altogether?

 

[Kimura]

well he didn't cause the Depression or current recession so he may know more than so called economists.

If he's mistaken about something important why be so afraid to tell us what it is or at least admit you lack the IQ to do so. You don't seem to realize that your constant personal attacks are a way to avoid substance. Think about it.

My personal attacks? LOL. Okay....

Peter Schiff has been saying the same shit for over a decade. His various "decoupling" theories and foreign stock adventurism lost his clients a FORTUNE.

dear, you said he wasn't an economist?? Where is he wrong about economics? Who on earth cares about his stocks. Will you even be educated if you always go to trivia or change the subject altogether?

He's dead wrong about hyperinflation, interest rates, overall macro, labor markets and just about everything else that exits his mouth.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

My personal attacks? LOL. Okay....

Peter Schiff has been saying the same shit for over a decade. His various "decoupling" theories and foreign stock adventurism lost his clients a FORTUNE.

dear, you said he wasn't an economist?? Where is he wrong about economics? Who on earth cares about his stocks. Will you even be educated if you always go to trivia or change the subject altogether?

He's dead wrong about hyperinflation, interest rates, overall macro, labor markets and just about everything else that exits his mouth,

Sure he is. That's why he was on of few that predicted accurately the housing bubble burst and got laughed at for it. Laughed off MSM talk shows, only t be completely right. Because he's dead wrong.

 

[Kimura]

dear, you said he wasn't an economist?? Where is he wrong about economics? Who on earth cares about his stocks. Will you even be educated if you always go to trivia or change the subject altogether?

He's dead wrong about hyperinflation, interest rates, overall macro, labor markets and just about everything else that exits his mouth,

Sure he is. That's why he was on of few that predicted accurately the housing bubble burst and got laughed at for it. Laughed off MSM talk shows, only t be completely right. Because he's dead wrong.

So did I.... I called it back towards the end of '05. I'm dead serious, as did some of my colleagues, so did a whole plethora of actual economists. The difference is we didn't peddle it into a cottage industry of lunacy.

 

[Oddball]

This is what Globalism and Free Trade Agreements do.

This is what and army of freebooting bureaucrats, who believe that 25 years as a "civil servant" entitles them to a free ride for the rest of their lives, does.

 

[Rshermr]

This is what Globalism and Free Trade Agreements do.

This is what and army of freebooting bureaucrats, who believe that 25 years as a "civil servant" entitles them to a free ride for the rest of their lives, does.

Really profound again, oddball. Right out of the bat shit crazy con web sites, as usual. Just a coincidence, I am sure. What a surprise. Never any thought necessary. Just post that dogma.

 

[Rshermr]

To piggback off your thread, I read this one this morning:

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here! - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here!Scott Shackford|Jul. 22, 2013 11:53 am

Credit: dreaming_of_rivers / Foter / CC BY-NCWe know economist Paul Krugman has taken to avoiding reading competing economic and political theories, but has he given up all reading altogether in order to perhaps avoid accidental exposure? In Sunday’s New York Times, Krugman tackles the Detroit bankruptcy and determines that the important thing is that we stop comparing America’s various fiscal problems with Greece’s:

As you may recall, a few years ago Greece plunged into fiscal crisis. This was a bad thing but should have had limited effects on the rest of the world; the Greek economy is, after all, quite small (actually, about one and a half times as big as the economy of metropolitan Detroit). Unfortunately, many politicians and policy makers used the Greek crisis to hijack the debate, changing the subject from job creation to fiscal rectitude.

Now, the truth was that Greece was a very special case, holding few if any lessons for wider economic policy — and even in Greece, budget deficits were only one piece of the problem. Nonetheless, for a while policy discourse across the Western world was completely “Hellenized” — everyone was Greece, or was about to turn into Greece. And this intellectual wrong turn did huge damage to prospects for economic recovery.

What made Greece such a very special case? Why is it so different from, say, Spain’s economic situation? Or even Detroit’s? Why is an economist saying there’s little to learn about economic policy from a failing state? All of this is simply asserted.

Krugman, amazingly, pivots to argue that Detroit’s budgets and pension obligations are not part of the problem:

Never mind the repeated failure of the predicted U.S. fiscal crisis to materialize, the sharp fall in predicted U.S. debt levels and the way much of the research the scolds used to justify their scolding has been discredited; let’s obsess about municipal budgets and public pension obligations!

Or, actually, let’s not.

Are Detroit’s woes the leading edge of a national public pensions crisis? No. State and local pensions are indeed underfunded, with experts at Boston College putting the total shortfall at $1 trillion. But many governments are taking steps to address the shortfall. These steps aren’t yet sufficient; the Boston College estimates suggest that overall pension contributions this year will be about $25 billion less than they should be. But in a $16 trillion economy, that’s just not a big deal — and even if you make more pessimistic assumptions, as some but not all accountants say you should, it still isn’t a big deal.

the rest, plus links to cite source at teh above link.

Nice, step. An article from a far right wing nut case web site. By a far right wing nut case writer. Nice. Because you could not, I am sure, find an article by an impartial site and an impartial author.
And the beat goes on.

 

[THORAX]

Look, a real economist who can explain why policies work and why certain policies don't work. The haters will hate as they would rather defend a city of uneducated people over someone who has an actual education.

Peter Schiff isn't an economist. He's a stock broker. An extraordinarily shitty one if you look at his track record for his clients.

His track record is ripe with correct predictions. That's why he has such high credibility and it's why he's a regular face on NBC and Fox business networks.

This guy is not someone who can be ignored, whether he's an economist or a stock broker doesn't matter. He knows his shit.

I'll hold his opinion in much higher regard over yours any day of the week.

 

[oldfart]

To piggback off your thread, I read this one this morning:

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here! - Hit & Run : Reason.com

Krugman on Detroit: Move Along, Folks; Nothing to See Here!Scott Shackford|Jul. 22, 2013 11:53 am

Credit: dreaming_of_rivers / Foter / CC BY-NCWe know economist Paul Krugman has taken to avoiding reading competing economic and political theories, but has he given up all reading altogether in order to perhaps avoid accidental exposure? In Sunday’s New York Times, Krugman tackles the Detroit bankruptcy and determines that the important thing is that we stop comparing America’s various fiscal problems with Greece’s:

As you may recall, a few years ago Greece plunged into fiscal crisis. This was a bad thing but should have had limited effects on the rest of the world; the Greek economy is, after all, quite small (actually, about one and a half times as big as the economy of metropolitan Detroit). Unfortunately, many politicians and policy makers used the Greek crisis to hijack the debate, changing the subject from job creation to fiscal rectitude.

Now, the truth was that Greece was a very special case, holding few if any lessons for wider economic policy — and even in Greece, budget deficits were only one piece of the problem. Nonetheless, for a while policy discourse across the Western world was completely “Hellenized” — everyone was Greece, or was about to turn into Greece. And this intellectual wrong turn did huge damage to prospects for economic recovery.

What made Greece such a very special case? Why is it so different from, say, Spain’s economic situation? Or even Detroit’s? Why is an economist saying there’s little to learn about economic policy from a failing state? All of this is simply asserted.

Krugman, amazingly, pivots to argue that Detroit’s budgets and pension obligations are not part of the problem:

Never mind the repeated failure of the predicted U.S. fiscal crisis to materialize, the sharp fall in predicted U.S. debt levels and the way much of the research the scolds used to justify their scolding has been discredited; let’s obsess about municipal budgets and public pension obligations!

Or, actually, let’s not.

Are Detroit’s woes the leading edge of a national public pensions crisis? No. State and local pensions are indeed underfunded, with experts at Boston College putting the total shortfall at $1 trillion. But many governments are taking steps to address the shortfall. These steps aren’t yet sufficient; the Boston College estimates suggest that overall pension contributions this year will be about $25 billion less than they should be. But in a $16 trillion economy, that’s just not a big deal — and even if you make more pessimistic assumptions, as some but not all accountants say you should, it still isn’t a big deal.

the rest, plus links to cite source at teh above link.

You post would be more readable if it indicated what parts were quoting Shackford and what parts were quoting Krugman. Correct citations instead of "Boston College" would also be helpful.