Pilgrims were illegal immigrants

[IlarMeilyr]

The Pilgrims could not possibly have been illegal aliens when they came to America. There was no Immigration Law here which they could have broken.

 

[BillyV]

BillyV -

The concept of 'indigenous people' is simply not that difficult to get. Really.

The concept that "indigenous people" have no superior rights to a piece of land is also not difficult to understand.

 

[Saigon]

BillyV -

The concept of 'indigenous people' is simply not that difficult to get. Really.

The concept that "indigenous people" have no superior rights to a piece of land is also not difficult to understand.

Ha! I don't think you believe that any more than I do!

 

[IlarMeilyr]

BillyV -

The concept of 'indigenous people' is simply not that difficult to get. Really.

The concept that "indigenous people" have no superior rights to a piece of land is also not difficult to understand.

Ha! I don't think you believe that any more than I do!

When the indigenous people have not even a concept of "property ownership" the notion that they have "rights to the land" based on merely living on it is a bit strained.

 

[Saigon]

Ilar -

Not really. It has been established in courts in several countries. New Zealand being the best example.

Live in land for a thousand years, and in effect you own it.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

Ilar -

Not really. It has been established in courts in several countries. New Zealand being the best example.

Live in land for a thousand years, and in effect you own it.

That does not appear to be the law of our land.

 

[Katzndogz]

Ilar -

Not really. It has been established in courts in several countries. New Zealand being the best example.

Live in land for a thousand years, and in effect you own it.

That does not appear to be the law of our land.

You can't explain our laws to a citizen of the world who believes that other nation's laws apply to us. New Zealand passed a very stupid law, and we are expected to follow THAT law instead of our own because that law feels better than our law.

 

[editec]

There isn't a single square foot of land on earth that hasn't been taken over from one group of people by another group of people.

Were the AmerIndians screwed?

Of course they were.

So too could you say that of every people on earth in history.

Trying to apply the legal definitions of what is okay to history is silliness.

We are ALL the progeny of genocidal maniacs.

Some of us more recently than others, but everyone of us alive today is a direct linear decendant of some people (oten many different peoples) who wiped out or took over somebody elses lands.

How do I know this about each and every one of us?

Because if we were NOT decendants from killers?

We would not be here to read this post.

 

[tinydancer]

Well then Americas First Nations are illegal aliens. Liberal loons at their finest. What next?

Getting us all to back to some shit holes in Africa and Asia including First Nations and give the Americas back to the birds and the bears and the bees?

Freaking insane liberals. It is a mental disorder.

Maps depicting each phase of our three-step colonization model for the peopling of the Americas.
(A) Divergence, then gradual population expansion of the Amerind ancestors from their East Central Asian gene pool (blue arrow).
(B) Proto-Amerind occupation of Beringia with little to no population growth for ~20,000 years.
(C) Rapid colonization of the New World by a founder group migrating southward through the ice free, inland corridor between the eastern Laurentide and western Cordilleran Ice Sheets (green arrow) and/or along the Pacific coast (red arrow).
In (B), the exposed seafloor is shown at its greatest extent during the last glacial maximum at ~20–18 kya [25].
In (A) and (C), the exposed seafloor is depicted at ~40 kya and ~16 kya, when prehistoric sea levels were comparable [24], [25].
Because of the earth's curvature, the km scale (which is based on the straight line distance at the equator) provides only an approximation of the same distance between two points on these maps. In addition, a scaled-down version of Beringia today (60% reduction of A–C) is presented in the lower left corner. This smaller map highlights the Bering Strait that has geographically separated the New World from Asia since ~11–10 kya.
Date 05:29, 5 October 2009
Source doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0001596.g004

File:Journal.pone.0001596.g004.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Saigon]

Ilar -

Not really. It has been established in courts in several countries. New Zealand being the best example.

Live in land for a thousand years, and in effect you own it.

That does not appear to be the law of our land.

No - because to do so would mean the US would leave itself open to charges of genocide and compensation relating to that genocide.

I dare say most of us would agree that this would be justice - but not everyone will admit to it.

 

[Saigon]

You can't explain our laws to a citizen of the world who believes that other nation's laws apply to us. New Zealand passed a very stupid law, and we are expected to follow THAT law instead of our own because that law feels better than our law.

No, you should follow that law because it is just and honorable.

The alternative is to suggest to any people that they can simply take American land, and to hell with whoever happens to live on it.

 

[Katzndogz]

You can't explain our laws to a citizen of the world who believes that other nation's laws apply to us. New Zealand passed a very stupid law, and we are expected to follow THAT law instead of our own because that law feels better than our law.

No, you should follow that law because it is just and honorable.

The alternative is to suggest to any people that they can simply take American land, and to hell with whoever happens to live on it.

The difference is, there is a government here to defend it. You are comparing rudimentary tribal structure to civilized government structure and unable to do it. So you fall back on some vague just an honorable argument that's an abject failure. It is just an honorable for you to get the hell out of your house and give it to the "rightful" owners because you never had a right to own that property to begin with.

It might be that someday another nation might want to take American land and to hell with whoever happens to live on it. We have a government to oppose that hostile take over. Indians had no government, they had no borders and no laws. If that other country succeeds in taking American land, they will do so, as easy or as hard as it will be, and certainly to hell with whoever happens to live on it. No consideration was given to the white farmers of Zimbabwe.

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

Might is not always right.

The American Indians tried to defend their land from invaders, but could not do so because white settlers were better armed.

You consider that a legal process. I do not, personally. (Neither do I in Zimbabwe, since you mention it. Theft is theft, regardless of whether I can call the police or the government to defend my rights).

Land stolen from permanant inhabitents, anywhere in the world, should be compensated, going back as far as legitimate claims can be established.

 

[Katzndogz]

Katz -

Might is not always right.

The American Indians tried to defend their land from invaders, but could not do so because white settlers were better armed.

You consider that a legal process. I do not, personally. (Neither do I in Zimbabwe, since you mention it. Theft is theft, regardless of whether I can call the police or the government to defend my rights).

Land stolen from permanant inhabitents, anywhere in the world, should be compensated, going back as far as legitimate claims can be established.

No. The indians were not able to defend their land because the white settlers were better armed. There were too few white settlers to be any kind of threat. Just to prove that, many white settlements were totally wiped out. The first settlement actually was totally wiped out to the last. Why was America settled after discovery but not China, or Japan? They had a civilization, and a government, and organization. You are so totally filled with UN bullshit, that there's no place for reason to exist. America was not stolen, it was settled. The europeans and whoever else came here were not immigrants, but settlers to unclaimed land.

 

[Saigon]

You are so totally filled with UN bullshit,

Um...what?

What information on this thread has come from the UN?

What reports have the UN published on this topic?

America was not stolen, it was settled. The europeans and whoever else came here were not immigrants, but settlers to unclaimed land.

Well..unclaimed land that had people living on it, you mean. People living on land were very often simply murdered and the land taken, as you know. And you claim white people were not a threat?

Baffling.