planning for the inevitable

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[skookerasbil]

 

[blu]

Please explain how this related to the fact that Europe is facing its coldest winter in 1,000 years?

weather != climate

 

[ScienceRocks]

Please explain how this related to the fact that Europe is facing its coldest winter in 1,000 years?

weather != climate

Weather is the here and now with measuring the highest and lowest temperatures for each day or how much rainfall falls. It is floods, storms, cyclones, cloud formation. Climate is the avg of weather over a period of time. You avg the daily highs and lows every days throughout the years to come up with a avg of lets say 74f on May 25th, but that is a avg over years of avging temperatures on the day to get that.

The same can be done with the yearly avg and you can had many other years and decades to find the avg year and see if there is any warming or cooling trend. This is the same and so on for measuring the earth's avg, but on a far bigger scale.

Weather and climate are very different. In there is NO sign currently that supports a 16-17th century like winter throughout any part of the world right now.

 

[westwall]

First, we are in the midst of a major extinction period, just on the impacts of man destroying natural habitats.

The Sixth Extinction (ActionBioscience)

There is little doubt left in the minds of professional biologists that Earth is currently faced with a mounting loss of species that threatens to rival the five great mass extinctions of the geological past. As long ago as 1993, Harvard biologist E.O. Wilson estimated that Earth is currently losing something on the order of 30,000 species per year — which breaks down to the even more daunting statistic of some three species per hour. Some biologists have begun to feel that this biodiversity crisis — this “Sixth Extinction” — is even more severe, and more imminent, than Wilson had supposed

Wow, the sixth extinction huh? How come so many new species are being discovered then? Let me see here....oh 6,969 were discovered in 2006 alone, and oh I think I can find that little scrap of paper here somewhere, yes here it is 18,225 were discovered in 2008!

"The State of Observed Species (SOS) is a report on human knowledge of Earth's species for the most recent year in which complete data are available. The 2010 SOS Report trumpets the latest discoveries of previously unknown plants, animals, microbes, algae and fungi that were described in 2008: 18,225 living species new to science and 2,140 new fossil species."

Home | International Institute for Species Exploration

Sounds like some more money grubbers standing around at the public trough begging for handouts.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Report: U.S. Needs National Strategy for Adapting to Warmer Climes - ScienceInsider

The federal government is way behind on efforts to develop effective strategies to adapt to a changing climate, a new report to the White House says today.

"Even with mitigation efforts, climate change will continue to unfold for decades due to the long atmospheric lifetime of past greenhouse gas emissions and the gradual release of excess heat that has built up in the oceans," the report says. States, cities, and towns could use guidance from the federal government's vast climate science effort on how to prepare for a warmer world, it adds.

Requested by the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, the report comes out of a 2-day summit held last year that involved both scientists and so-called stakeholders from state and local governments and businesses. These included wildlife managers, water and health officials, city planners, and construction experts. "In the past, meetings like this were just a bunch of academics talking together," said Jack Fellows, an official with the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research (UCAR) in Boulder, Colorado, who helped run the summit and contributed to the report.

And, in a related story...

Heaven's Gate was an American UFO religion based in San Diego, California, founded and led by Marshall Applewhite (1931–1997) and Bonnie Nettles (1928–1985).[1] On March 26, 1997, in a period that Comet Hale-Bopp was at its brightest,[2] police discovered the bodies of 39 members of the group who had committed suicide.[3]
Heaven's Gate (religious group) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

 

[code1211]

Please explain how this related to the fact that Europe is facing its coldest winter in 1,000 years?

European countries are more or less Socialist so they are immune from Global Climate change/warming/modification or whatever.

Only Capitalist societies will suffer in times of Global Warming.

 

[Si modo]

Get some facts, ol' dingbat.

Rhetoric, and mostly hysterical rhetoric at that, is not the same as facts.

I'll check in occassionally to see if any facts telling me of an inevitablilty show up.

No, you will check in occasionly to see if there is some way to cast doubt, in the same manner as the tabacco companies. You present the same degree of honesty that they do.

Still no facts, just rhetoric, I see.

 

[Flopper]

When a White House advisor was asked why Kennedy set a goal of putting a man on the moon within a decade, he said that it was felt that America could not hold it's focus on a national goal for more than a decade. Preparing for global climate change is a major effort that would require bi-lateral support for decades which isn't going to happen until water is 3 feet deep on Wall Street.

 

[westwall]

When a White House advisor was asked why Kennedy set a goal of putting a man on the moon within a decade, he said that it was felt that America could not hold it's focus on a national goal for more than a decade. Preparing for global climate change is a major effort that would require bi-lateral support for decades which isn't going to happen until water is 3 feet deep on Wall Street.

You do realise, don't you, that the climate is allways changing? Please point to a time in the Earths history when it was static. Any time will do.

 

[Old Rocks]

It is called rate of change, Walleyes. And, considering the number of times you have stated that you think that NASA, NOAA, and all the foreign equivelents are lying about the increase in temperature, the statement you just made is called covering your ass.

 

[westwall]

It is called rate of change, Walleyes. And, considering the number of times you have stated that you think that NASA, NOAA, and all the foreign equivelents are lying about the increase in temperature, the statement you just made is called covering your ass.

Right olfraud, right! You make me laugh you really do. How many times have you clowns changed the name?

 

[Old Rocks]

Kooky, you are still one fucking dumb bastard.


Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch


Busbar cost in cents per kilowatt-hour in 2008 dollars:

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

 

[elvis]

Kooky, you are still one fucking dumb bastard.


Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch


Busbar cost in cents per kilowatt-hour in 2008 dollars:

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

Most people base their assumptions on older data than that.

 

[westwall]

Kooky, you are still one fucking dumb bastard.


Comparative electrical generation costs - SourceWatch


Busbar cost in cents per kilowatt-hour in 2008 dollars:

Coal:

Coal Supercritical: 10.554
Coal Integrated Gasification Combined Cycle (IGCC): 11.481
Coal IGCC with Carbon Capture & Storage (IGCC with CCS): 17.317
Alternatives:

Biogas: 8.552
Wind: 8.910
Gas Combined Cycle: 9.382 (assumes $5.50 to $6.50/MMBtu for gas)
Geothermal: 10.182
Hydroelectric: 10.527
Concentrating solar thermal (CSP): 12.653
Nuclear: 15.316
Biomass: 16.485

Really? Sourcewatch? I trust these guys more than source watch, and the cost is in mills so to derive the cost per cent divide the numbers by 10.




Table 8.2. Average Power Plant Operating Expenses for Major U.S. Investor-Owned Electric Utilities, 1997 through 2008
(Mills per Kilowatthour)
Plant Type 2008 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999 1998 1997
Operation
Nuclear 9.68 9.21 8.95 8.63 8.3 8.86 8.54 8.3 8.43 8.95 9.98 10.83
Fossil Steam 3.65 3.49 3.24 2.97 2.97 2.5 2.59 2.41 2.26 2.24 2.17 2.22
Hydroelectric[1] 5.78 5.44 3.76 3.95 3.95 3.47 3.71 4.27 3.52 3.35 3.09 2.65
Gas Turbine and Small Scale[2] 2.98 2.89 2.99 3 3 2.76 2.72 3.15 4.08 4.93 3.81 4.36
Maintenance
Nuclear 6.2 5.79 5.69 5.27 5.27 5.23 5.04 5.02 4.96 5.01 5.77 6.73
Fossil Steam 3.59 3.37 3.19 2.98 2.98 2.72 2.67 2.61 2.42 2.46 2.41 2.42
Hydroelectric[1] 3.89 3.87 2.7 2.73 2.73 2.32 2.62 2.89 2.22 2.03 1.58 1.98
Gas Turbine and Small Scale[2] 2.72 2.42 2.16 1.89 1.89 2.26 2.38 3.33 3.26 4.78 3.42 3.33
Fuel
Nuclear 5.29 4.99 4.85 4.63 4.63 4.6 4.6 4.67 4.9 5.16 5.39 5.41
Fossil Steam 28.43 23.88 23.09 21.69 21.69 17.29 16.09 18.15 17.73 15.5 15.86 16.73
Hydroelectric[1] -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Gas Turbine and Small Scale[2] 64.23 58.75 53.89 55.52 55.52 43.89 31.84 43.55 41.76 27.95 22.85 24.71
Total
Nuclear 21.16 20 19.49 18.53 18.53 18.69 18.18 17.99 18.29 19.12 21.13 22.96
Fossil Steam 35.67 30.74 29.52 27.64 27.64 22.51 21.36 23.17 22.41 20.2 20.43 21.38
Hydroelectric[1] 9.67 9.32 6.46 6.68 6.68 5.79 6.33 7.16 5.74 5.38 4.67 4.64
Gas Turbine and Small Scale[2] 69.93 64.06 59.04 60.41 60.41 48.91 36.94 50.03 49.09 37.66 30.08 32.41
[1] Conventional hydro and pumped storage.
[2] Gas turbine, internal combustion, photovoltaic, and wind plants.
Notes: Data for the years 1997 - 2007 were updated reflecting revisions reported by Energy Velocity. Expenses are average expenses weighted by net generation. A mill is a monetary cost and billing unit equal to 1/1000 of the U.S. dollar (equivalent to 1/10 of one cent). Totals may not equal sum of components because of independent rounding.
Source: Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC Form 1, "Annual Report of Major Electric Utilities, Licensees and Others."

Electric Power Annual - Average Power Plant Operating Expenses for Major U.S. Investor-Owned Electric Utilities

 

[Flopper]

When a White House advisor was asked why Kennedy set a goal of putting a man on the moon within a decade, he said that it was felt that America could not hold it's focus on a national goal for more than a decade. Preparing for global climate change is a major effort that would require bi-lateral support for decades which isn't going to happen until water is 3 feet deep on Wall Street.

You do realise, don't you, that the climate is allways changing? Please point to a time in the Earths history when it was static. Any time will do.

What a dumb question. We're discussing global climate change. The average temperature of the global climate should remain relatively stable after adjusting for solar cycles.