Police never tried to open door to classrooms where Uvalde gunman had kids trapped

[scruffy]

Yes, it was.

Well... we don't know. It could have been racism, or it could have been plain old policy. We need the police chief to answer questions, and he won't. He's stonewalling the state investigation.

 

[braalian]

Actually, he can.

I highly doubt he could shoot six or so separate coming at him at once from multiple directions.

I’ll admit rushing an armed shooter, even as part of a group, is potentially suicidal and no one really knows how they’d react in an actual situation like that.

It’s easy to talk big on a message board, but I know I’d try it if it were my kids in immediate danger. And I’d *like* to think I’d also do it for other kids.

I think a large enough number of parents, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc were present and willing to do just that that day. They could have overtaken any shooter, and the police should have stepped aside if they weren’t going to go in themselves.

In almost any other scenario it would be ridiculous to say the police should step aside and let civilians take control of the situation. But in this particular scenario the police were literally giving families no other choice.

 

[Batcat]

I agree. However, I also believe we've both seen too many Hollywood cop dramas. In real life cops are mere mortals who also shit their pants at the mere chance of bullets coming their way. Too many fellow Americans confuse cops with military combat veterans and I don't mean "combat" veterans who "won" authorization to wear a combat patch just for being in theater at the time of ongoing combat operations. Further, cops are trained in tactics not combat. That being said, many cops who joined the force sometime in the last twenty years are military combat vets, which is a different and as equally serious a problem as cowardice and self-preservation over duty.

I used to run a small business training local, state and federal law enforcement personnel in certain specific tactical skills I developed over a career in the US Army. On a number of occasions cops proved their unwillingness to do such basic cowboy up activities as standing in the rain, crawling through the mud, jumping across a narrow creek, and the like. Shit like that always lowered my faith just a bit in the ruggedness of the modern man. Myself, I grew up outdoors pretty much and was essentially a hard ass little commando by age ten. The army only further hardened and toughened up what was already there. You'd be surprised what a well trained, mission dedicated soldier is capable of doing. Your average cop ain't that but neither are most combat vets either. We're all human. Some of us, however, are unflinching even in the face of the greatest adversity, and we will hunt down the bad guys even if it's raining brimstone.

I will admit however that the gap between soldier and cop is narrowing greatly in America, at least from a paradigm shift and equipment point of view. These days even some patrol cops dress like soldiers, all tactical and web gear, cargo pants and plate carriers. But the man inside all that fancy kit is often nothing more than a heavily armed, frightened little boy who will do anything to get home to the wife.

I follow what you are saying but when a significant number of innocent young children are involved I believe I would be willing to put my life on the line to try to save some If I was wearing a badge.

 

[Batcat]

He supports what ever the police do, murder or not.

If you are suggesting that I always support what police do, you are dead wrong. Police make mistakes and sometimes the result is innocent people die.However a cop should do whatever he can to stop s shooter inside a school as rapidly as possible to save as many lives as possible.

 

[scruffy]

I highly doubt he could shoot six or so separate coming at him at once from multiple directions.

I’ll admit rushing an armed shooter, even as part of a group, is potentially suicidal and no one really knows how they’d react in an actual situation like that.

It’s easy to talk big on a message board, but I know I’d try it if it were my kids in immediate danger. And I’d *like* to think I’d also do it for other kids.

I think a large enough number of parents, brothers, aunts, uncles, etc were present and willing to do just that that day. They could have overtaken any shooter, and the police should have stepped aside if they weren’t going to go in themselves.

In almost any other scenario it would be ridiculous to say the police should step aside and let civilians take control of the situation. But in this particular scenario the police were literally giving families no other choice.

If it were me, and I was an unarmed parent coming upon the scene, the first thing I'd do is get on my cell phone, and about 3 minutes later there'd be 20 guys with fire sticks ready to do battle

Then i'd recon the place so I can give them the lay of the land when they get there.

I doubt I'd be armed, I don't carry, but one of my friends would surely bring a little something extra.

In Burbank the cops are pretty quick, in LA not so much. In Burbank there's a good chance the cops would get there before my people, but in LA my guys would be there LONG before the cops.

So, I think, in Burbank the cops are in charge, and in LA we're in charge. Burbank cops are very good, I think they'd take action. They generally keep the community very safe, and in a case like this, ... yeah, they'd be quick about it for sure. I don't think there'd be much for us to do, we could volunteer our services but... no... lol...

LA cops are dimwits, we fully expect they'd stand around doing nothing when they got there, and even keep us from rescuing our children. Way too much bureaucracy in LAPD. Too many layers, not enough substance.

 

[Resnic]

All those bastards should be sent to prison.

They were only following orders. Unless I am missing some bit of information that is.

The people responsible are the people in charge. An officer out in the streets has to make his own decisions in the moment. In situations like that field command is directing them so the ones in charge should be held responsible.

Of course I don't know all the finer points. So maybe they were acting on their own.

 

[miketx]

They were only following orders.

First you say the above...

An officer out in the streets has to make his own decisions

Then you say this. They were nothing but spineless cowards. I hope the parents ambush the pos one by one.