Politically, I find most Liberals intolerant of other's viewpoints.

[drsmith1072]

Conservatives and Liberals have very different outlooks on life. In fact liberals have a completely diffferent culture than conservatives. This leads to both sides arguing over subjects as their differing culture leads them to different opinions on the subject.

A big part of the liberal culture is the preaching of tolerance for others. Tolerance and respect for those around the world, tolerance and respect for minorities, tolerance for illegal immigrants, and so on.

The left is hell of a lot more tolerant than the right. LOL

However when it comes to dealing with the conservative culture liberals become very ethnocentric. The majority of liberals show very little, if any, respect for the conservative culture. Especially on message boards. In fact on message boards liberals are completely intolerant of conservative culture and values.

This bs reminds me of a country music song that I heard a while back, not sure about the performer but the basic gist of it was that he didn't want people telling them how to live his life while he preached his morality at other people and was trying to tell others how to live. This is the same as most other disagreements with righties. They have different standards for themselves than they try to hold others to.

This constantly makes me think of hypocracy.

of your own party??

The liberals who do this remind me of the conservatives who preach family values then cheat on their wifes, hypocrites.

I still beleive as i always have that dissent is patriotic but that will not stop me from pointing out how many more conservatives their are out there now who have started to claim this since the day they were voted into the minority and a democrat was elected president. Before that the majority of those on the right labeled those who dared to disagree with W as being traitors, un-American and unpatriotic.

So liberals next time you get all wound up and ready to bash on some conservative for wanting guns, not wanting abortion, being against radicals in their white house, being wary of who the president surrounds themselves with, or their hate of government involvment in our lives and the taxes that comes along with it....remember it makes you sound like hypocrites to many fair minded individuals.

WOW do you wants some cheese with that WHINE. LOL You whine like a spoiled child about these things and yet it would seemed that the majority of those you are trying to defend wouldn't hesitate for a second when they felt that they have a chance to attack the left concerning the above issues, among others.

You know, it's funny but it seems that you believe that the liberals are better people than the conservatives. That the left should always take the high road no matter how low dishonest, hypocritical and partisan the right becomes. LOL

hate government involvement?? Funny how that one was left in the ditch when W was president and now that a dem is president it's been brought back out again. LOL Oh well it's nothing but more conservative HYPOCRISY.

Another random thought of mine that i decided to post

LOL Please do try to keep such inane moronic and hypocrtical thoughts to yourself in the future. Thanks.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

All progressives are cognitive deficients; their reasoning relies purely upon group-think, which is why they spend so much time reading... they cloister their limited intellectual means in the reasoning of others within that group.

The really sad thing is that what you said here easily applies to the Modern Conservative Movement.

How original...

Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter.... there's a cottage industry right now of Modern Conservatives (I use the term loosely)

LOL... Why loosely? That tends towards the implication that you believe the concept of 'Conservative" to mean something distinct from the thinking advanced by those you referenced... If this is the case... what, pray tell is the definition of Conservative that you're working from? And please, be specific...

Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter.... there's a cottage industry right now of Modern Conservatives (I use the term loosely) who publish books which are easily sold to ditto heads that can barely think for themselves. They sit around the radio at the prescribed hours of the day, listen only to the Talk Show Host approved news outlets, and regurgitate the same tired talking points daily to those unlucky enough to know them, either online or (worse!) in person.

Talking points? Now I've noticed that this term usually pops up when the speaker is running from the argument...

You seem like a bright person... So to test this... Let's you and I see if you're prepared to demonstrate what you clearly see as fatally flawed ideas; ideas which you refer to through the 'talking points' reference...

Towards that end, what do you see as the most prolific of these 'talking points;' and what is the argument which you find best refutes or even discredits the underlying premise reprensented by that point?

I do find your disdain of reading to be a shortcoming.

Do you? That is a FASCINATING conclusion... given I've never offered anything which could even potentially convey a disdain for reading... or be inferred as such by a reasonably objective, fairly intelligent person. I adore the written word... and while this form represents but a fraction of my work... I demonstrate my affection for such, through advancing on the order of 100,000 words a week.

So if ya wouldn't mind, explain how the citation which you offered above, lead you to conclude that I've a disdain for the written word?

I study Mathematics. As a young man I was very good at Mathematics and was easily able to solve, completely from scratch, the problems that I encountered. As the problems I encountered became more sophisticated, the techniques required for solution became more esoteric and more studying was required. By the time I earned my Ph'D, reading and digesting the mathematical works of others became a vital and necessary tool for enabling my own research.

Uh... Yeaaah...

What's your point?

I stated that Leftists read work which lends credence to and otherwise advocates for the feelings intrinsic to Left-think... You seem to be implying that this position is flawed... and you come to demonstrate this by relaying your experience wherein you read the work of those who write about Mathematics... so as to educate yourself in matters of ... Mathematics. As far as I can tell, the conclusion doesn't follow the calculated premise...

There is a definite need to appeal to the knowledge of those that came before, be it the Founders, the Prophets, the Apostles, etc. What is a mistake, and is always a mistake, is to read and accept the ideas you read without critical analysis. That leads to close minded group think. Reading with a critical eye leads to spiritual and mental growth.

Hey! On that we can agree... and therein lies my problem with the ideological left... they steadfastly advocate for education; consistantly confuse such with indoctrination and as such, never fail to repeat the same mistakes of their ideological progenitors time after time... discrediting their cause; revising the label by which their cause is identified and trotting out the same principle-less calculations as before; destined to realize the same failed conclusions... decade after decade, bring chaos, calamity and catastrophe to culture after culture.

Now if ya wouldn't mind... it'd be just super if you'd tend to the above queries and challenges...

 

[Diuretic]

Pub your post is dripping with irony.

And please, be specific...

 

[drsmith1072]

Who on this message board do you consider conservative. I'd say there are three, maybe four, actual conservatives and the rest are far right nut jobs.

Here's intolerance...having a meltdown because someone questioned Bush's motives. That's the Republican party in a nutshell.

It's one thing to question motives. That is healthy. It should be a requriement, especially when the guy being questioned is spending our money.

And yet I was called an unpatriotic, un-American traitor for questioning bush's motives. LOL Funny how things, like the standard once held by republicans that they discarded the moment a democrat was elected president, change.

The "questioning" of Bush's motives was only a small part of the whole "Blame Bush" methodology that the Dems used incessantly throughout his two terms.

UH Aren't hypocrties on the right currently in a "blame obama" methodology?? LOL More right wing hypocrisy.

My favorite of this activity was that Bush caused the hurricanes that hit New Orleans.

Really?? i don't remember that one. I do remember many JUSTIFIABLY criticizing bush's lack of response after the storm hit. I also remember all of the conservatives trying to blame someone else for it. LOL imagine that.

All of the hysterical rantings about the confiscation of rights were simply just that.

So it's kind of like all of the hystarical rantings about death panels, socialism and confiscation of rights that righties are NOW whining about? LOL

Any fair minded individual would know that Bush's actions in the whole Gitmo detention and the unification of the CIA and the FBI data streams were reactions to severely weakened intelligence capabilities that may have helped the execution of the 9/11 attacks.

Oh and lookie here, it looks like you are in a "blame clinton" methodology. LOL Imaigine that you are exposing yourself as a hypocrite as you try to call lefties hypocrites LOL

If there is any justification for the questions relating to motivation in every move Bush made, it would probably be the WMD fiasco. To extend the absolute rejection of honesty in motivation for each and every action that followed is just a belabored attack technique that was repeated ad infinitum.

That's HILARIOUS coming from the right when the right has nitpisked every tiny thing and tried to spin everything against obama no matter how ridiculous. I remember conservatives on teh MSNBC board making ahuge deal out of spanish being spoken at a press conference. LOL Or how about the bow to the saudi king that W bowed to and walked hand in hand with LOL

Do those who questioned Bush's motivations also question Obama's? If they do question, do they do so with the same level of suspiscion and vitiol? If not, they are political hacks. If so, they are responsible custodians of their voting franchise, but are probably pretty miserable individuals.

I gave W a chance which is more than most righties can say. I seem to remember as soon as the votes were counted there were righties who were already started the "blame obama' methodology. LOL I wonder?? How many righties that are now questioning obama turned a blind eye when W was president?? Hmm?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

you proudly declare your refusal to read the work of the more effective voices of that opposition...

They are in no way experts and do not know what they are talking about. They stay within party rhetoric and I view them as nothing more than entertainment and I take them at that value... which is nonexistant. They are not relevant sources in other words.

They're in NO WAY experts?[/quote]

Really?

Well that IS news...

Perhaps you're working from an understanding of the concept "expert" which is distinct from that common to the word...

Webster's Collegiate 2009 defines "expert" as follows:

For the noun usage... in this context; Expert: 1. somebody skilled or knowledgeable: somebody with a great deal of knowledge about, or skill, training, or experience in, a particular field or activity.

For the adjective... the above concept remains constant but a second context is applicable: 2. done by somebody with specialist knowledge: given or done by somebody who is skilled, trained, or experienced in the relevant subject area .

Perhaps your view can show where the relevant individuals fail to cross the threshold required by that incontestable definition of Expert. Maybe you could demonstrate your expertise? Or bring to light the superior understanding of the subject, through the reference of someone who your considered opinion qualifies as as expert...

Or not...

My guess is you'll fail delightfully in every respect... but again, I am open to whatever argument you may opt to bring.

Best of luck...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Well what do you expect? Conservatives are stupid.

Not all.

But the "Ditto-Head" variety tend to be pretty dumb in my experience. They hear something they like and utterly fail to think about whether or not it makes any sense. Worse, they seem to have the same mindset as the guy that thinks the stripper likes them. The Right Wing (and Left Wing) pundits are there for the paycheck. If being a leftist paid better, they'd be a leftist.

The Modern Conservative Movement, as symbolized by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc is absolutely the worst thing to happen to the real Conservatives in a 100 years. Its certainly the worst thing to happen to the Republican Party in at least a generation.

LOL...

Yet ANOTHER trotting out of the ethereal reference to the 'true Conservative'... and as is typical, this specter is found stumbling around without the head, otherwise necessary to know who it is...

Tell us Professor... what is a "true Conservative" and correlate your would-be understanding with those who you feel wrongly profess to be such; proving the distinction.

It shouldn't take too long, or require much effort; given the implied understanding which you possess, on which the above assertion rests...

 

[drsmith1072]

Attack the poster and ignore the point.

Kudos guys, kudos.

You are presenting YOUR OPINION and that is what they are attacking because it reeks of hypocrisy.

EDIT: Oh i didn't say ALL liberals, i thought i might have by mistake but i didn't. whew

No you just said MOST LOL

sounds to me like you needed to do a thread on why people are generally intolerant today? you could have covered it with that...so it was your choose to slant it one way or another...now wasnt it?

i take issue with hypocracy,

Unless it's your own. LOL

which is where the direction toward the liberals comes from.

No that comes from your blatant partisan hypocrisy as you ignore the fact that conservatives do this too. You CHOSE to focus your rant against the left ONLY. That exposes you as a partisan hack.

Practice what they preach

You know, I have been telling that to conservatives for years and yet they would rather be dishonest and put party first than apply the same standard that they had when W was president to obama.
Here is a good example, the republicans had the majority in both houses and the WH and the opinions present my almost every righty that I spoke to was bascially "tough cookies" and yet now that the republcians are in the minority all I seem to hear is unending whining about taxation without representation and "listen to me" LOL Why has the right's opinion on this changed so much?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Pubic is a rabid hater of leftists, he shows no respect for anyone with differing views and in fact is a shining example of how wrong the OP was as posted.

Pubic is the new conservative ideal.

more liberal lies and hypocracy

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I have to admit that I wasn't aware of Russell being a supporter of Fascism. My first memories of him were his activities in the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, hardly the actions of a supporter of Fascism I would have thought.

In edit: this is in response to Pub's assertion.

Nothing surprising there; given your complete ignorance of the relevant issues...

But it is hilarious that you own clipped citation speaks to nothing if it doesn't reflect the virtues of Centrism... which by default requires in its intrinsic ingredients, at the least, 50% socialism... which is the foundational core of fascism; 'the middle way... the third way'.

But it's adorable that you feel that passivism stands distinct from fascism... I'd absolutely LOVE to see your math on that one.

 

[Oscar Wao]

Well what do you expect? Conservatives are stupid.

Not all.

But the "Ditto-Head" variety tend to be pretty dumb in my experience. They hear something they like and utterly fail to think about whether or not it makes any sense. Worse, they seem to have the same mindset as the guy that thinks the stripper likes them. The Right Wing (and Left Wing) pundits are there for the paycheck. If being a leftist paid better, they'd be a leftist.

The Modern Conservative Movement, as symbolized by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc is absolutely the worst thing to happen to the real Conservatives in a 100 years. Its certainly the worst thing to happen to the Republican Party in at least a generation.

LOL...

Yet ANOTHER trotting out of the ethereal reference to the 'true Conservative'... and as is typical, this specter is found stumbling around without the head, otherwise necessary to know who it is...

Tell us Professor... what is a "true Conservative" and correlate your would-be understanding with those who you feel wrongly profess to be such; proving the distinction.

It shouldn't take too long, or require much effort; given the implied understanding which you possess, on which the above assertion rests...

The usual bit:

-Free markets
-Proper spending as prescribed by the Constitution
-Individual liberty (which means YES, David and Josh can get marriage benefits and sign a marriage contract and a bunch of students in a dorm can smoke pot at a party without worrying about getting in trouble [aka it's illegal]).
-noninterventionist or realpolitik foreign policy, no neo-conism or military industrial complex
-Upholding the Constitution in general

5 points...yet they're so simple in summing it up!

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Name one.. and define 'successful'... correlating that definition to the enumerated traits of the referenced society which demonstrates their 'scuccess' through collective ownership...

Norway, Sweden, Germany, The Netherlands, Ireland, France, UK, Canada, Chile, Peru, Argentina... should I go on? All successful societies with strong social programs AND manage to have quite a few rich people. Hint: Wasn't it Norway that had the most millionaires in 2007? By your capitalist blinders, that should spell "success" to you.

So you can't define success and prefer to simply imply success by virtue of their existence... as was predicted was at the root of your now thoroughly discredited assertion.

Sweet Fail... It really seems to be your thing...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

You made it very hard to respond with your quote style so i will write in dark red inside the quote

Conservatives and Liberals have very different outlooks on life. In fact liberals have a completely different culture than conservatives. This leads to both sides arguing over subjects as their differing culture leads them to different opinions on the subject.

A big part of the liberal culture is the preaching of tolerance for others. Tolerance and respect for those around the world, tolerance and respect for minorities, tolerance for illegal immigrants, and so on.

The left is hell of a lot more tolerant than the right. LOL

I was never commenting on the tolerance level of conservatives, if you listen to rush Limbaugh ever you will see many conservatives are just as guilty of the same political intolerance. However one of the republicans main mantras isn't tolerance, so the hypocrisy is not so glaring and annoying to me as it is with the liberals

However when it comes to dealing with the conservative culture liberals become very ethnocentric. The majority of liberals show very little, if any, respect for the conservative culture. Especially on message boards. In fact on message boards liberals are completely intolerant of conservative culture and values.

This bs reminds me of a country music song that I heard a while back, not sure about the performer but the basic gist of it was that he didn't want people telling them how to live his life while he preached his morality at other people and was trying to tell others how to live. This is the same as most other disagreements with righties. They have different standards for themselves than they try to hold others to.


Well how's that for Irony. Think about your statement and how EASILY it could be flipped over. I don't want either side telling me how to live. I can make that decision for myself and I don't need any govt, repub or democrat to demean my opinion of subjects.

I'm not asking liberals or conservatives to agree with me, i am asking for the respect of my different opinions and my diversity of thought. I don't want to be told I'm immoral or ignorant by the left if i don't want HR3200 to be the needed health care reform we end up getting

this constantly makes me think of hypocrisy

of your own party??

I don't have a party. If you had to pick a party based on my voting history i would actually be a democrat. I have voted for democrats roughly 70% of the time in my voting history. Shows how little you understand where I'm coming from, which is my fault for not elaborating.


I still believe as i always have that dissent is patriotic but that will not stop me from pointing out how many more conservatives their are out there now who have started to claim this since the day they were voted into the minority and a democrat was elected president. Before that the majority of those on the right labeled those who dared to disagree with W as being traitors, un-American and unpatriotic.

I too believe dissent is patriotic and the republicans pissed me off badly when they chastised liberals over their protests due to Iraq. I had issues with the Iraq war, was i unamerican...i think not. HOWEVER, now i have democrats calling me unpatriotic because i don't totally support all of obama's plans. Both sides suck ass on this point, sorry

So liberals next time you get all wound up and ready to bash on some conservative for wanting guns, not wanting abortion, being against radicals in their white house, being wary of who the president surrounds themselves with, or their hate of government involvement in our lives and the taxes that comes along with it....remember it makes you sound like hypocrites to many fair minded individuals.

WOW do you wants some cheese with that WHINE. LOL You whine like a spoiled child about these things and yet it would seemed that the majority of those you are trying to defend wouldn't hesitate for a second when they felt that they have a chance to attack the left concerning the above issues, among others.

That was the rant part of the post yeah yeah i was whining...you could have posted this instead

You know, it's funny but it seems that you believe that the liberals are better people than the conservatives. That the left should always take the high road no matter how low dishonest, hypocritical and partisan the right becomes. LOL

Wow you did understand where i was coming from. I grew up with liberals, went to liberal college, and i hold a high amount of respect for the open mindedness of true liberals. Hence part of my motivation in making this thread. To see liberals act they way they have over the last several years is saddening to me.

Like I said the left can disagree, but they are very very very disrespectful to people who hold different views than them. This is not being a liberal in my opinion, it is something else. I am used to the right treating me like this when i disagree, but from the left its fairly new and those who do it should really look back at themselves for a minute

hate government involvement?? Funny how that one was left in the ditch when W was president and now that a dem is president it's been brought back out again. LOL Oh well it's nothing but more conservative HYPOCRISY.

Hey i was bitching during bush too. I was at anti spending protests against bush. I went to anti-patriot act protests also. Please try and keep an open mind when dealing with people and don't be so intolerant when someone like me posts and opinion that doesn't fit your viewpoints.

Another random thought of mine that i decided to post

LOL Please do try to keep such inane moronic and hypocritical thoughts to yourself in the future. Thanks.

Sorry i can't do that, it seems my random thoughts, while bringing a lot of heat against me, tend to spark lively threads

You should also go back and read some of my responses....somewhere after the 100th post....a lot of your confusion about me would have been cleared up for you .

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Conservatives and Liberals have very different outlooks on life. In fact liberals have a completely diffferent culture than conservatives. This leads to both sides arguing over subjects as their differing culture leads them to different opinions on the subject.

A big part of the liberal culture is the preaching of tolerance for others. Tolerance and respect for those around the world, tolerance and respect for minorities, tolerance for illegal immigrants, and so on.

The left is hell of a lot more tolerant than the right. LOL

Really? Now what are you basing this conclusion upon?

To be honest my experience and knowledge of the history of Left-think, suggest quite the opposite; and this is based upon the incontrovertible fact, that the Ideological Left came into being, in terms of governance, with the French Revolution... toward the end of the 18th Century... Now the forces of tolerance and compassion summarily began what is common referred to as "the Reign of Terror;" wherein roughly 40,000 individuals who were deemed as contestants TO Left-think were murdered.

Now 40,000 murders doesn't seem like much... and when compared to the 100 MILLION individuals which were murdered by the 20th century Leftists... perhaps it not.

The point being that the history of Leftism demonstrates that it is founded in a disregard for compassion; dogmatic enforcement demanding complete adherence to its principle-less tenets... and is steeped in insideous intolerance of anything that opposses it; not the least of which are the immutable principles of nature which doom it to eternal failure.

So... what's your position based upon?

 

[Dr.Traveler]

LOL... Why loosely? That tends towards the implication that you believe the concept of 'Conservative" to mean something distinct from the thinking advanced by those you referenced... If this is the case... what, pray tell is the definition of Conservative that you're working from? And please, be specific...

Sure. I think that if you want to identify yourself as a Conservative you should believe in:
1. The basic freedoms of non-interference and self-determination the country was founded upon.
2. The rule of law and the necessity of government.
3. Sound reasoning.

The Founders fought for greater independence and self-determination, recognized the need for a strong but limited central government, and championed personal rights. They were the product of an era where the average educated man was actively involved in scientific research and understood the value of critical thinking.

I do not consider the Right-Wing Talk show hosts to represent this at all. They tend towards a desire to squelch opinions they disagree with, favor laws dictating their own morality, and will happily defend any government program as long as it is sponsored by someone with an "R" after their name.

You seem like a bright person... So to test this... Let's you and I see if you're prepared to demonstrate what you clearly see as fatally flawed ideas; ideas which you refer to through the 'talking points' reference...

Socialism is the biggest one. The Right Wing Radio has developed "Socialism" into a catch all phrase to describe any action taken by a Democrat, even if such a policy was pursued by a valued "Conservative" in an earlier administration.

"Liberal" is another. If a person boasts a "D" following their name, they are automatically Liberal in the eyes of the Right Wing Radio establishment. That is blatantly false as there is a growing "Blue Dog" wing of the Democratic Party.

There are a few in the recent health care debate. "Personal Health Savings Accounts" is a failed idea out of the gate, as anyone that has suffered through the costs of a hospital stay will tell you. "Tort Reform" is often trumpeted with no explanation of what it is. Often anyone asking about a specific situation is laughed off the show.

That's a start.

Towards that end, what do you see as the most prolific of these 'talking points;' and what is the argument which you find best refutes or even discredits the underlying premise reprensented by that point?

Listed above are some of my favorites. Almost all follow from a vastly simplified and politicized definition. Right Wing Radio (and yes, often Left Wing too) love to simplify things to sound bites when the reality is a bit more complicated.

Do you? That is a FASCINATING conclusion... given I've never offered anything which could even potentially convey a disdain for reading... or be inferred as such by a reasonably objective, fairly intelligent person. I adore the written word... and while this form represents but a fraction of my work... I demonstrate my affection for such, through advancing on the order of 100,000 words a week.

This quote from the post 200 from this thread. I'd link it, but I'm under the 15 post threshold to link.

All progressives are cognitive deficients; their reasoning relies purely upon group-think, which is why they spend so much time reading... they cloister their limited intellectual means in the reasoning of others within that group.

If this is not meant to portray a disdain for reading, it needs a bit of clarification.

Uh... Yeaaah...

What's your point?

Reading is fundamental.

Again, its more a refutation to a point of yours quoted that needs clarification. Time spent reading is time well spent if you're reading with a critical eye.

Now if ya wouldn't mind... it'd be just super if you'd tend to the above queries and challenges...

Done and done.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

Well what do you expect? Conservatives are stupid.

Not all.

But the "Ditto-Head" variety tend to be pretty dumb in my experience. They hear something they like and utterly fail to think about whether or not it makes any sense. Worse, they seem to have the same mindset as the guy that thinks the stripper likes them. The Right Wing (and Left Wing) pundits are there for the paycheck. If being a leftist paid better, they'd be a leftist.

The Modern Conservative Movement, as symbolized by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc is absolutely the worst thing to happen to the real Conservatives in a 100 years. Its certainly the worst thing to happen to the Republican Party in at least a generation.

LOL...

Yet ANOTHER trotting out of the ethereal reference to the 'true Conservative'... and as is typical, this specter is found stumbling around without the head, otherwise necessary to know who it is...

Tell us Professor... what is a "true Conservative" and correlate your would-be understanding with those who you feel wrongly profess to be such; proving the distinction.

It shouldn't take too long, or require much effort; given the implied understanding which you possess, on which the above assertion rests...

Done in another post, but again, I fail to consider Limbaugh a "True Conservative" considering how quickly he expressed relief at the Republicans losing after the 2006 election. I believe the now very famous words he used were that he was "tired of carrying water for the Republican Party." Considering how fast that Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter, Beck, etc lined up behind McCain after he won the nomination in 2008, I don't consider them Conservatives either.

A true Conservative should have the courage to follow through with their beliefs and hold the GOP responsible for the people they nominate. I do not feel that if you bad mouthed McCain as a Liberal in the past, and yet pulled the lever for him in '08, that you are truly a Conservative. A Republican partisan surely, but not a Conservative.

BTW: This is why I consider the Modern Conservatives to be the worst thing to happen to the GOP in a generation. A shifting definition of Conservative to mean Republican combined with an obsession with the Left at the cost of holding their own side accountable has lead to a negative view of what it means to be Conservative in the voting population as a whole. Mr. Bush was no Conservative, and yet he oftened described himself as such with no challenge from the Right Wing Radio. For True Conservatives, being seen as aligned with Mr. Bush was an unmitigated disaster at the polls.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Not all.

But the "Ditto-Head" variety tend to be pretty dumb in my experience. They hear something they like and utterly fail to think about whether or not it makes any sense. Worse, they seem to have the same mindset as the guy that thinks the stripper likes them. The Right Wing (and Left Wing) pundits are there for the paycheck. If being a leftist paid better, they'd be a leftist.

The Modern Conservative Movement, as symbolized by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, etc is absolutely the worst thing to happen to the real Conservatives in a 100 years. Its certainly the worst thing to happen to the Republican Party in at least a generation.

LOL...

Yet ANOTHER trotting out of the ethereal reference to the 'true Conservative'... and as is typical, this specter is found stumbling around without the head, otherwise necessary to know who it is...

Tell us Professor... what is a "true Conservative" and correlate your would-be understanding with those who you feel wrongly profess to be such; proving the distinction.

It shouldn't take too long, or require much effort; given the implied understanding which you possess, on which the above assertion rests...

The usual bit:

-Free markets Check
-Proper spending as prescribed by the Constitution Check
-Individual liberty (which means YES, David and Josh can get marriage benefits and sign a marriage contract and a bunch of students in a dorm can smoke pot at a party without worrying about getting in trouble [aka it's illegal]).Ahh, so you're confusing Conservatism with Libertarianism... LOL... Fatal flaw...
-noninterventionist or realpolitik foreign policy, no neo-conism or military industrial complexMore liberatarianism posing as conservatism...
-Upholding the Constitution in general Check

5 points...yet they're so simple in summing it up!

Yeah... Conservatism is fairly simple... but that's a function of Conservatism being founded in immutable principle and such are naturally quite simple.

However, homosexuality is counter productive to a viable, sustainable culture; standing at odds with the natural order; and is to be discouraged for a host of sound reasons...

And there is absolutely NOTHING within the concept of Conservatism which requires the dismantling of necessary cultural standards.

 

[Oscar Wao]

OK, perhaps it's not conservatism. However, personal liberty comes into play. What two men or women do is none of my or your business. The Constitution actually speaks of contracts...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

OK, perhaps it's not conservatism. However, personal liberty comes into play. What two men or women do is none of my or your business. The Constitution actually speaks of contracts...

I agree with this short post.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

LOL... Why loosely? That tends towards the implication that you believe the concept of 'Conservative" to mean something distinct from the thinking advanced by those you referenced... If this is the case... what, pray tell is the definition of Conservative that you're working from? And please, be specific...

Sure. I think that if you want to identify yourself as a Conservative you should believe in:
1. The basic freedoms of non-interference and self-determination the country was founded upon. agreed...
2. The rule of law and the necessity of government.Agreed...
3. Sound reasoning.agreed...

The Founders fought for greater independence and self-determination, recognized the need for a strong but limited central government, and championed personal rights. They were the product of an era where the average educated man was actively involved in scientific research and understood the value of critical thinking.

I do not consider the Right-Wing Talk show hosts to represent this at all.

Well given your examples, I'd say that the problem is that you're ignorant of the individuals you reference, their stated positions and are a victim of a popularly held but erroneous propaganda campaign...

They tend towards a desire to squelch opinions they disagree with, favor laws dictating their own morality, and will happily defend any government program as long as it is sponsored by someone with an "R" after their name.

This is patently false... and indicates that you're suffering from the above noted ignorance.

The list of Republican policy which has been blasted by Limbaugh, Beck and Coulter is ENDLESS, from amnesty for illegals to Moderate SCOTUS appointees... Medicare expansion, Federal usurpation of education, bailouts and ON AND ON AND ON...

You seem like a bright person... So to test this... Let's you and I see if you're prepared to demonstrate what you clearly see as fatally flawed ideas; ideas which you refer to through the 'talking points' reference...

Socialism is the biggest one. The Right Wing Radio has developed "Socialism" into a catch all phrase to describe any action taken by a Democrat, even if such a policy was pursued by a valued "Conservative" in an earlier administration.

Nonsense... Socialism is not some encrypted code known only to a few who possess the keys... it is a commonly understood concept which sets aside individual rights and tranfers the responsibilities inherent in the devinely endowed, unalienable human rights at the foundation of Americanism, to "the people"... which is Left-think code for the State...

Socialism is anathema in every facet of the long discredited ideology to the very concept of America... If you've some specific example of a policy which has been erroneously defined as socialist, but which in reality is in keeping with the immutable principles on which American liberty rests... cite it... otherwise your argument fails a miserable and humiliating death.

"Liberal" is another. If a person boasts a "D" following their name, they are automatically Liberal in the eyes of the Right Wing Radio establishment. That is blatantly false as there is a growing "Blue Dog" wing of the Democratic Party.

Again, this is a ridiculous mischaracterization... A liberal is not a difficult thing to identify and being a partisan Democrat is in point of FACT, a first class sign of such.


Sadly, I'm out of time... we'll cover the rest later..

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

BTW: This is why I consider the Modern Conservatives to be the worst thing to happen to the GOP in a generation. A shifting definition of Conservative to mean Republican combined with an obsession with the Left at the cost of holding their own side accountable has lead to a negative view of what it means to be Conservative in the voting population as a whole. Mr. Bush was no Conservative, and yet he oftened described himself as such with no challenge from the Right Wing Radio. For True Conservatives, being seen as aligned with Mr. Bush was an unmitigated disaster at the polls.

I know you haven't had a chance to respond to my response to you before you made this post but i have to add in my 2 cents.

Anyone who called Bush a conservative doesn't understand what a conservative is. Bush was financially liberal with spending while forgetting conservatism by increasing spending with tax cuts at the same time....a true conservative would have cut taxes and spending.

True conservatives wouldn't have been for the immigration reform bush tried to push.

True conservatives thought medicare reform was a mistake.


now if I am wrong about that would a true conservative please come in at this point and tell me why im wrong. I would like to know.