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I proposed nothing of the sort. I am pointing out that there are enormous costs associated with non-citizen mothers having their babies here, most notably premature babies. That is contrary to the Liberal narrative that illegals economically BENEFIT America which is total nonsense.Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
I proposed nothing of the sort. I am pointing out that there are enormous costs associated with non-citizen mothers having their babies here, most notably premature babies. That is contrary to the Liberal narrative that illegals economically BENEFIT America which is total nonsense.Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Corporations don't pay their FAIR share of taxes and neither do the wealthy. Warren has proposed a plan to change that. The government would get enough money in taxes from them to fund Medicare for all. Duh.No. People who are retired paid for social security. We pay as much for medical expenses now as we would pay for Medicare for all. It comes directly out of your pocket now; the same amount or less would pay for it through taxes. If the wealthy and big corporations pay their fair share of taxes, it would pay for Medicare for all and more. Also, we need to stop giving doctors and the drug companies exorbitant amounts of money. You need some vision to see that it would work. Doctors from other countries come here in order to become wealthy: not because they are the best doctors in the world but because they can make a lot more money here instead in countries that have universal healthcare.Yada, yada, yada, yada....same old ignorant BS. Medicare works for millions of Americans. Medicare for all will work for the entire country. Stop being negative and looking backwards. Look forward.I think our healthcare system needs an overhaul. Obamacare did huge damage to it. However, a government run system is not the answer. Universal healthcare will neither be affordable, nor sustainable in a country of 330 million and growing with ILLEGALS and people that don't pay into it. We are not Canada, nor the UK. We are different, have different social pressures, and need a different, market based, competitive and efficient solution.
The people on Medicare paid for it all their working lives.
Having Medicare for all will bankrupt it sooner. Medicare is going bankrupt by 2026
Medicare Will Be Insolvent by 2026—Can America Fix It in Time?
and that is just with the people over 65 who earned it. Adding freeloaders will kill Medicare for everyone.
Looking forward, if you want healthcare work for it and pay for it.
Just going to reply to your incorrect points:
1. You have no clue how much Medicare for all would cost. Its simply unaffordable no matter how many lies Bernie and the democrats tell you. That's why I started off saying "remember Obama's claim we'd all save $2,500 a year with Obamacare":
The Cost of 'Medicare-for-All' - FactCheck.org
"The top line of the paper’s abstract says that the bill “would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation.” According to the paper, even doubling all “currently projected federal individual and corporate income tax collections would be insufficient to finance the added federal costs of the plan.”
2. Corporations pay about 9% of the Federal revenue of $3T a year. No where near enough to fund Medicare for all, even if doubled or tripled. All that would happen is that they would move overseas and take their jobs with them.
Policy Basics: Where Do Federal Tax Revenues Come From?
3. Controlling healthcare costs is a very good goal, but you need more than a "vision", you need workable ideas that can become workable policies. Read this and take your pick...
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)01115-2/fulltext
To a limited degree they do especially farm workers on work visas contribute to GDP and are very important to farmers. Beyond that, they are a big net negative especially in border states. And with the numbers that are coming in now, the problem is getting far worse. Getting back to the original discussion, consider the possibility of border state NICUs filled to capacity with premature babies of illegals. American citizens will be told "Sorry we'll have to transport your premature baby to another state ours is filled."I proposed nothing of the sort. I am pointing out that there are enormous costs associated with non-citizen mothers having their babies here, most notably premature babies. That is contrary to the Liberal narrative that illegals economically BENEFIT America which is total nonsense.Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Overall, they do. They contribute to GDP, and pay withholding, property taxes (as part of rent), sales taxes and other VAT’s, gas taxes, and their consumer purchases of food, clothing, furniture etc., contribute to local businesses and help create jobs.
Offense taken, since nothing I said had anything to do with "fixing" Obamacare, and would in fact necessitate doing away with it.
By all means, tell me precisely how what I said is "fixing Obamacare" and not giving us good healthcare with less cost? Explain to me how free markets and competitions are "fixing Obamacare", or putting decisions in the hands of the individuals rather than employers or bureaucrats, or making the patients the customers who need to be satisfied rather than third-party payers. How does ANY of that relate to Obamacare? How does any of the shit you've posted here or in your previous so-called "response" relate to anything I said?
Yeah, I am absolutely, 100% offended that you presumed to respond to my post without bothering to really read it - TWICE! - because you were in too big a hurry to shout your own views over and over.
No offense <again> but you might want to start with where we are, and then put your road map in to where we end up with good healthcare. Right now we have Obamacare, that's why I assumed that your recommendations were mostly the same (similar) to what Alexander-Murray proposed to fix Obamacare. So let me try again to see what you're proposing:
0. Repeal Obamacare, get back to a free market healthcare system run by insurance companies, with premiums, deductibles, and new stipulations
1-5 as you suggest, sell across state lines, many plan options, insurance premiums are tax deductible, customers can pool by region/hospital to get better pricing, setup HSAs for catastrophic coverage or deductibles? (you need to pay premiums to insurance companies or else you're a cash customer) You don't mention deductibles? Obamacare has $10,000 for many, I thought that was what your HSA was for, pay premiums, plus have HSAs for emergencies/deductibles.
Just trying to understand what your healthcare system would look like....
What you do or don't ASSume is not my problem. Maybe you should just read people's posts for what's there, rather than what you project onto them. Had I meant, "Let's add this onto the existing Obamacare garbage to spruce that system up", I'd have said so.
You might WANT me to "start where we are" by doing that; that's not my problem. I'm starting where we are by clearing the decks of the bullshit and failure, and replacing it with a better plan. Yes, I am absolutely saying that what we need to do is repeal and replace Obamacare, as our craven junkless Congressional Republicans promised so often, with a REAL system that REALLY works.
Let me take this moment to reiterate that my biggest - possibly only - problem with the GOP is that they don't appear to have a complete set of testicles amongst them.
As for deductibles, they're a regular part of insurance. However, how high your deductible is depends on a number of factors. If we had a system that put individuals in the driver's seat as the customer, then the policy options available to them would be tailored and customized to offer a wide range of choices. YOU decide whether you want to accept high deductibles in exchange for low premiums, or vice versa. (Mind you, the accompanying HSA would mitigate a lot of the pain of high deductibles if you ended up needing a lot of care).
That is EXACTLY why I included encouraging more use of HSAs in my list. I'm looking for a system that's flexible and accommodating to a wide variety of needs - rather than one-size-fits-all - and that puts people in the position of taking personal responsibility and becoming informed, while also giving them the power to make that work well for them.
Your re-design of the US Healthcare system using the free market with safeguards to help people afford the deductibles seems workable. The dems will whine about the 30m or so that were there without healthcare before Obamacare, that are now about 20m without Obamacare. Its still a complex mess figuring in the Medicaid freeloaders. Your system works for the 180m who have healthcare thru work, or are self-employed and buy insurance.
The 20m or 30m that don't have healthcare insurance just go to emergency rooms when needed, correct?
There are other ways to make sure that poor people have access to healthcare besides making 300 million-plus people wards of the state. (I know, I'm preaching to the choir on that one.) For starters, free market solutions like I have proposed would make basic care WITHOUT government aid more accessible to a lot of the working poor. They can't afford the monthly premiums for employer-sponsored plans that cover everything but the kitchen sink, but many of them could manage the much-lower premium of a catastrophic plan and a small deduction to their HSA, which would again be there waiting to actually be of use when they need it, rather than just being paid and pissed away for any month they didn't go to the doctor the way a premium is.
As for those who don't have that option, there are also far better, more effective solutions than the current Big Federal Government, one-size-fits-all "solutions" we have now. In fact, the first thing I would suggest would be to get the federal government as far out of administering it as possible. You do not get cost-effective, efficient solutions by having national politicians meddling in it to pander to their base (and I DO mean on both sides of the aisle).
Let the individual states have a crack at it without being hamstrung by federal regulations every time they turn around. If we really must have federal tax dollars involved, then do it in the form of block grants to the state, and let THEIR innovative powers get to work.
Thanks for the explanation. I like your healthcare system.
Now get to work figuring out how to get the cost of drugs like insulin more affordable.
U.S. insulin costs per patient nearly doubled from 2012 to 2016: study - Reuters
"A person with type 1 diabetes incurred annual insulin costs of $5,705, on average, in 2016. The average cost was roughly half that at $2,864 per patient in 2012, according to a report due to be released on Tuesday by the nonprofit Health Care Cost Institute (HCCI)."
Any ideas?
The government runs Social Security and has never missed a check. It runs the VA and Vets love the care.For-profit means they will cheat you to make more money. It is health denial business. Get sick and see how difficult it is to access the care you have paid for.I don't want the government running a lemonade stand. The bureaucracy has proven time and time again it is both incompetent, and self serving, and often hostile too the taxpayer and people it is supposed to SERVE.
You want DMV, or VA type service and quality? Let the government run healthcare! Why do Liberal/Progressive put so much faith in government? It is just another collection of flawed humans that can not be held accountable, and just want to grow their departments.
It is more than the bills. our system limits freedom. If you want to change jobs, you risk going without health insurance for a requalifying period,. You also have to factor health insurance into the equation if you want to start your own business.Anyone who has ever been smothered with medical bills would appreciate universal healthcareWhen I receive a messed up billing from a doctor I want the government to run healthcare as their punishment.
I feel the same way
After my wife was hospitalized for a week I got a stack of bills demanding payment before my insurance had even settled. I ended up negotiating between the doctors and my insurance over payment. Out of network doctors would show up and treat my wife and then my insurance refused to pay them
I met a guy from UK once who told me he had open heart surgery. He said he just showed his ID card when he checked in and never received a bill
Plenty of problems with the UK NHS. But theirs should be much cheaper and easier to administer considering how geographically close the population is ( UK has twice the population density of New York).
U.K. Hospitals Are Overburdened, But The British Love Their Universal Health Care
Since the 2008 financial crisis, the U.K., like many countries, has been taking in less tax revenue — so it's had to cut spending. Its expenditure on the National Health Service has still grown, but at a slower pace than before. That means drugs are now being rationed. Tens of thousands of operations have been postponed this winter. Wait times at the emergency room are up, says Richard Murray, policy director at the King's Fund, a health care think tank.
Look at how much time and money Doctors spend on billing insurance companies, negotiating payment, providing documentation, going after patients for nonpayment
Why would anyone prefer that method of insurance ?
Health insurance costs go up every year outstripping inflation. Co-pays get bigger and you get coverage slashes. health insurance companies are in the denial of care business. They make more money by denying you the care you pay for. So they do,. Get sick and see how much they will fight you. When you are at your weakest, you have to fight to get your procedures covered. Our system is terrible.
Yes, our system has plenty of room for improvement, we all know that. I am waiting for somebody to describe the system they want, the system that would be better here.
Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Another example of leftist halfwits coming up with utterly absurd "all or nothing" interpretations, forcing the words into the mouths of people who didn't say them, and then getting their panties wadded in "outrage" at the positions they have ASSumed people have.
Here's a thought. When someone other than you says, "Let the baby die", THEN you can start foaming at your toothless mouth about it. And we STILL won't care about the faux concern for newborns expressed by someone who thought they were so much garbage to be tossed in the trash five minutes earlier.
Corporations don't pay their FAIR share of taxes and neither do the wealthy. Warren has proposed a plan to change that. The government would get enough money in taxes from them to fund Medicare for all. Duh.No. People who are retired paid for social security. We pay as much for medical expenses now as we would pay for Medicare for all. It comes directly out of your pocket now; the same amount or less would pay for it through taxes. If the wealthy and big corporations pay their fair share of taxes, it would pay for Medicare for all and more. Also, we need to stop giving doctors and the drug companies exorbitant amounts of money. You need some vision to see that it would work. Doctors from other countries come here in order to become wealthy: not because they are the best doctors in the world but because they can make a lot more money here instead in countries that have universal healthcare.Yada, yada, yada, yada....same old ignorant BS. Medicare works for millions of Americans. Medicare for all will work for the entire country. Stop being negative and looking backwards. Look forward.
The people on Medicare paid for it all their working lives.
Having Medicare for all will bankrupt it sooner. Medicare is going bankrupt by 2026
Medicare Will Be Insolvent by 2026—Can America Fix It in Time?
and that is just with the people over 65 who earned it. Adding freeloaders will kill Medicare for everyone.
Looking forward, if you want healthcare work for it and pay for it.
Just going to reply to your incorrect points:
1. You have no clue how much Medicare for all would cost. Its simply unaffordable no matter how many lies Bernie and the democrats tell you. That's why I started off saying "remember Obama's claim we'd all save $2,500 a year with Obamacare":
The Cost of 'Medicare-for-All' - FactCheck.org
"The top line of the paper’s abstract says that the bill “would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation.” According to the paper, even doubling all “currently projected federal individual and corporate income tax collections would be insufficient to finance the added federal costs of the plan.”
2. Corporations pay about 9% of the Federal revenue of $3T a year. No where near enough to fund Medicare for all, even if doubled or tripled. All that would happen is that they would move overseas and take their jobs with them.
Policy Basics: Where Do Federal Tax Revenues Come From?
3. Controlling healthcare costs is a very good goal, but you need more than a "vision", you need workable ideas that can become workable policies. Read this and take your pick...
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)01115-2/fulltext
Duh yourself. Bernie and Warren are lying. Do the math, or show me a credible link how Bernie's math works. Here is the real math that proves you're either stupid or gullible, MFA would add about $1.7T a year to the $4T Fed Budget. Its simply unaffordable, let alone trusting the government to run it. No thanks.
How Much Will Medicare for All Cost?
Medicare for All: What it is, and isn't
Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Another example of leftist halfwits coming up with utterly absurd "all or nothing" interpretations, forcing the words into the mouths of people who didn't say them, and then getting their panties wadded in "outrage" at the positions they have ASSumed people have.
Here's a thought. When someone other than you says, "Let the baby die", THEN you can start foaming at your toothless mouth about it. And we STILL won't care about the faux concern for newborns expressed by someone who thought they were so much garbage to be tossed in the trash five minutes earlier.
Where did I say that? You're doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. I have never said anything of the kind.
You should stop embarassing yourself with your posts. Oooops, too late.
Corporations don't pay their FAIR share of taxes and neither do the wealthy. Warren has proposed a plan to change that. The government would get enough money in taxes from them to fund Medicare for all. Duh.No. People who are retired paid for social security. We pay as much for medical expenses now as we would pay for Medicare for all. It comes directly out of your pocket now; the same amount or less would pay for it through taxes. If the wealthy and big corporations pay their fair share of taxes, it would pay for Medicare for all and more. Also, we need to stop giving doctors and the drug companies exorbitant amounts of money. You need some vision to see that it would work. Doctors from other countries come here in order to become wealthy: not because they are the best doctors in the world but because they can make a lot more money here instead in countries that have universal healthcare.The people on Medicare paid for it all their working lives.
Having Medicare for all will bankrupt it sooner. Medicare is going bankrupt by 2026
Medicare Will Be Insolvent by 2026—Can America Fix It in Time?
and that is just with the people over 65 who earned it. Adding freeloaders will kill Medicare for everyone.
Looking forward, if you want healthcare work for it and pay for it.
Just going to reply to your incorrect points:
1. You have no clue how much Medicare for all would cost. Its simply unaffordable no matter how many lies Bernie and the democrats tell you. That's why I started off saying "remember Obama's claim we'd all save $2,500 a year with Obamacare":
The Cost of 'Medicare-for-All' - FactCheck.org
"The top line of the paper’s abstract says that the bill “would, under conservative estimates, increase federal budget commitments by approximately $32.6 trillion during its first 10 years of full implementation.” According to the paper, even doubling all “currently projected federal individual and corporate income tax collections would be insufficient to finance the added federal costs of the plan.”
2. Corporations pay about 9% of the Federal revenue of $3T a year. No where near enough to fund Medicare for all, even if doubled or tripled. All that would happen is that they would move overseas and take their jobs with them.
Policy Basics: Where Do Federal Tax Revenues Come From?
3. Controlling healthcare costs is a very good goal, but you need more than a "vision", you need workable ideas that can become workable policies. Read this and take your pick...
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(09)01115-2/fulltext
Duh yourself. Bernie and Warren are lying. Do the math, or show me a credible link how Bernie's math works. Here is the real math that proves you're either stupid or gullible, MFA would add about $1.7T a year to the $4T Fed Budget. Its simply unaffordable, let alone trusting the government to run it. No thanks.
How Much Will Medicare for All Cost?
Medicare for All: What it is, and isn't
How much do Americans currently spend on health insurance premiums. The cost of healthcare will be added to taxes, eliminating the $15,000 or so per year employers pay for healthcare per employee.
It’ll be way cheaper than the current system.
Exactly. Private insurance insures that the insurance companies, doctors and pharmaceutical companies make a shitload of money while we pay for it. A national health care program will insure the individual patient is not screwed to the wall financially while those entities make millions and live like royalty. Doctors from Canada, the UK, and elsewhere move to the US to practice so they can make millions too. It's clear we overpay them.The government runs Social security and it has not missed a check in 70 years while it is run on 1 percent of its revenue. It runs Medicare which is an excellent health system.
Private insurance is a guarantee that your costs will increase and so will co-pays. Your coverage will drop steadily though.That is hardly a system I want to promote. You have to fight the insurance company to pay for the procedures you have paid for when you are ill and weak. For profit health insurance is fundamentally wrong. It adds cost and complexity while providing less and less coverage.
Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource
Any better ideas??
I remember Obama's promise that Obamacare would save all families about $2,500 a year, it actually cost them about $10,000 a year in deductibles, meaning that they basically pay premiums AND pay deductibles to see a doctor. McCain really screwed up not killing Obamacare when he had the chance.
The democrats are running on "single payer" Medicare for all, where the government pays for all healthcare, and its FREE when needed. I can't imagine the lines of people waiting to see doctors. I wonder what GS pay grade doctors would get?
These two links basically prove two main points:
1. About 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare system. Can you say "pre-existing conditions"?
So, whats your solution? Big brother?Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource
Any better ideas??
1. Are you willing to let the bottom half die in the streets if they cannot afford to pay for their healthcare?
2. They already pay more. My son is a Type-1 diabetic, the cost associated with that are enormous and I wonder how people manage.
There are a lot of problems with our system. I know a guy, he is about 28 or so, that was in between job and ended up in the ER and was diagnosed with Chrons disease. He spent 4 days in the hospital without insurance and will likely never be able to pay off what he owes. This is a problem with our system.
Around the time my mom and step-dad hit 70 they sold all their land and their house to my sister and BIL and essentially rented their house to avoid losing it all to the high cost of end of life care. This should not be necessary.
The problem in our country is we treat healthcare as both a commodity and a service. That cannot work in the long run.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
My solution is that “we the people” need to decide if healthcare is a commodity or a service.
If it is a commodity then those without the means to pay for it do not get it, just like every other commodity. Laws that mandate ERs, medical personnel and hospitals provide care must be taken off the books.
If it is a service then it should be treated like the police or fire department.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
I remember Obama's promise that Obamacare would save all families about $2,500 a year, it actually cost them about $10,000 a year in deductibles, meaning that they basically pay premiums AND pay deductibles to see a doctor. McCain really screwed up not killing Obamacare when he had the chance.
The democrats are running on "single payer" Medicare for all, where the government pays for all healthcare, and its FREE when needed. I can't imagine the lines of people waiting to see doctors. I wonder what GS pay grade doctors would get?
These two links basically prove two main points:
1. About 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare system. Can you say "pre-existing conditions"?So, whats your solution? Big brother?Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource
Any better ideas??
1. Are you willing to let the bottom half die in the streets if they cannot afford to pay for their healthcare?
2. They already pay more. My son is a Type-1 diabetic, the cost associated with that are enormous and I wonder how people manage.
There are a lot of problems with our system. I know a guy, he is about 28 or so, that was in between job and ended up in the ER and was diagnosed with Chrons disease. He spent 4 days in the hospital without insurance and will likely never be able to pay off what he owes. This is a problem with our system.
Around the time my mom and step-dad hit 70 they sold all their land and their house to my sister and BIL and essentially rented their house to avoid losing it all to the high cost of end of life care. This should not be necessary.
The problem in our country is we treat healthcare as both a commodity and a service. That cannot work in the long run.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
My solution is that “we the people” need to decide if healthcare is a commodity or a service.
If it is a commodity then those without the means to pay for it do not get it, just like every other commodity. Laws that mandate ERs, medical personnel and hospitals provide care must be taken off the books.
If it is a service then it should be treated like the police or fire department.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
Bizarre as it sounds, there was a time when fire protection was considered a "commodity" too. If you didn't pony up your protection money they'd stand and watch while your house burned down but protect your neighbor who did.
Of course in this type of event "commodity" is pronounced "racketeering". Same thing applies to health care.
Let's not forget that sick illegals and their children get "free healthcare". That includes premature babies who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills PER CHILD.
So you're proposing that if an illegal immigrant has a premature baby because of a lack of universal health care in your country, that the hospitals should let these infants die? Is that what you're really saying, Mr. Conservative Ban Abortion, save the unborn?
Another example of conservatives showing more interest in saving a fetus than in providing for living breathing children.
Another example of leftist halfwits coming up with utterly absurd "all or nothing" interpretations, forcing the words into the mouths of people who didn't say them, and then getting their panties wadded in "outrage" at the positions they have ASSumed people have.
Here's a thought. When someone other than you says, "Let the baby die", THEN you can start foaming at your toothless mouth about it. And we STILL won't care about the faux concern for newborns expressed by someone who thought they were so much garbage to be tossed in the trash five minutes earlier.
Where did I say that? You're doing exactly what you accuse me of doing. I have never said anything of the kind.
You should stop embarassing yourself with your posts. Oooops, too late.
"Infanticide Will Be A Major Issue In 2020" Thread, post #199
There is no "infanticide". By age 40, 1 in 4 American women will have had one or more abortions. 70% of American think abortion should be legal. Abortions were performed in cave man times. Like prostitution, abortion has always been with us. You won't end it by making it illegal. You will just drive it back underground and women will once again, die from botched abortions.
The only lunatics opposing abortion are right wing evangelicals, and they only make up 23% of Americans. Even then evangelicals have 13% of all abortions - 100,000 abortions per year on people who claim abortion is wrong and murder. I guess it's only "wrong", when liberals get an abortion.
Only barbarian nations ban abortion.
"What would America be like if the anti-Abortion types win?" Thread, post #64:
You clearly have no memory of the days when abortion was illegal in the USA. Women were bleeding out in emergency rooms from botched abortions. Many died or were rendered infertile by back alley butchers.
Poor women have reduced access to cheap abortions now due to state laws which force them to undergo unnecessary and expensive ultra sounds, waiting periods. Add a bus ticket and motel rooms to the tests and the cost of the actual procedure, and suddenly it's priced out of reach of most working poor women with other children to feed.
In Canada, abortion at all stages of pregnancy, is legal and fully funded by our government funded health care, and has been since 1979, when our Supreme court struck down the abortion law as unconstitutional. There are no laws governing abortion whatsoever. It is a matter between a women and her doctor.
"The Mentality That Aligns With Abortion" Thread, post #8:
The whole abortion question is very easy:
If you believe abortion is murder, don't have an abortion.
What anyone else does is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!
"VA Democrats Propose Bill Allowing Abortion Up Until Moment Of Birth" Thread, post #11:
The babies being aborted in the third trimester, have no hope of survival. Viable babies aren't being aborted late term.
"Why is abortion the way of the world?" Thread, post #395:
As soon as they start killing "children", we'll object. That has never happened. No child has been killed.
You may not like the words I used to state your position, but that's because you're ashamed of holding a position you know is evil. The only person who should be EMBARRASSED here is you, for being a lying piece of shriveled garbage. Far from being embarrassed about disagreeing with trash like you, I'm proud of it.
Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker
How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource
Any better ideas??
Yeah. Number one quit shouting with obnoxious fonts.
What I remember is being dumbfounded years ago when I found out there is actually such a thing as for-profit hospitals.
That needs to end. LONG ago.
