Poll: Do you want the Federal governemnt running all healthcare?

[dblack]

LOL - you know we will. Why do you want miscreants making important decisions for your family's health care?

What makes you think they will make the decisions? The plan will be for covering people with universal insurance, not managing the actual care.

If government is paying the bills, government will make the call. We're you born yesterday?

You think that's how Medicaid works? Or the VA?

Yes. Medicaid and VA benefits are determined by politicians.

Benefits, as in payment. Not care. Care is determined by the drs.

Yeah. And they don't care about getting paid.

 

[Crepitus]

What makes you think they will make the decisions? The plan will be for covering people with universal insurance, not managing the actual care.

If government is paying the bills, government will make the call. We're you born yesterday?

You think that's how Medicaid works? Or the VA?

Yes. Medicaid and VA benefits are determined by politicians.

Benefits, as in payment. Not care. Care is determined by the drs.

Yeah. And they don't care about getting paid.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

When I receive a messed up billing from a doctor I want the government to run healthcare as their punishment.

I feel the same way

After my wife was hospitalized for a week I got a stack of bills demanding payment before my insurance had even settled. I ended up negotiating between the doctors and my insurance over payment. Out of network doctors would show up and treat my wife and then my insurance refused to pay them

I met a guy from UK once who told me he had open heart surgery. He said he just showed his ID card when he checked in and never received a bill

Plenty of problems with the UK NHS. But theirs should be much cheaper and easier to administer considering how geographically close the population is ( UK has twice the population density of New York).

U.K. Hospitals Are Overburdened, But The British Love Their Universal Health Care
Since the 2008 financial crisis, the U.K., like many countries, has been taking in less tax revenue — so it's had to cut spending. Its expenditure on the National Health Service has still grown, but at a slower pace than before. That means drugs are now being rationed. Tens of thousands of operations have been postponed this winter. Wait times at the emergency room are up, says Richard Murray, policy director at the King's Fund, a health care think tank.

Anyone who has ever been smothered with medical bills would appreciate universal healthcare

Look at how much time and money Doctors spend on billing insurance companies, negotiating payment, providing documentation, going after patients for nonpayment

Why would anyone prefer that method of insurance ?

Here’s the reality- if I don’t have to pay for repairs on my car, why would I spend money on tune ups and oil changes? When people are not responsible for paying for their healthcare, they aren’t concerned with taking care of their bodies. They don’t worry about getting exercise or eating healthy foods. They eat crap and get a Rx from the doctor for cholesterol and high blood pressure, and tax payers get the bill.

Give me a HC system from another country you think should be employed in this country, and I’ll bet you would really not agree to duplicate it when you consider (I point out to you) all the requirements to duplicate that system.

 

[Leo123]

When I receive a messed up billing from a doctor I want the government to run healthcare as their punishment.

I feel the same way

After my wife was hospitalized for a week I got a stack of bills demanding payment before my insurance had even settled. I ended up negotiating between the doctors and my insurance over payment. Out of network doctors would show up and treat my wife and then my insurance refused to pay them

I met a guy from UK once who told me he had open heart surgery. He said he just showed his ID card when he checked in and never received a bill

Plenty of problems with the UK NHS. But theirs should be much cheaper and easier to administer considering how geographically close the population is ( UK has twice the population density of New York).

U.K. Hospitals Are Overburdened, But The British Love Their Universal Health Care
Since the 2008 financial crisis, the U.K., like many countries, has been taking in less tax revenue — so it's had to cut spending. Its expenditure on the National Health Service has still grown, but at a slower pace than before. That means drugs are now being rationed. Tens of thousands of operations have been postponed this winter. Wait times at the emergency room are up, says Richard Murray, policy director at the King's Fund, a health care think tank.

Anyone who has ever been smothered with medical bills would appreciate universal healthcare

Look at how much time and money Doctors spend on billing insurance companies, negotiating payment, providing documentation, going after patients for nonpayment

Why would anyone prefer that method of insurance ?

Here’s the reality- if I don’t have to pay for repairs on my car, why would I spend money on tune ups and oil changes? When people are not responsible for paying for their healthcare, they aren’t concerned with taking care of their bodies. They don’t worry about getting exercise or eating healthy foods. They eat crap and get a Rx from the doctor for cholesterol and high blood pressure, and tax payers get the bill.

Give me a HC system from another country you think should be employed in this country, and I’ll bet you would really not agree to duplicate it when you consider (I point out to you) all the requirements to duplicate that system.

All good points and, I would add, IF people start not taking care of themselves (with government health care), you can be rest assured that the government will step in and make sure those folks either take care of themselves or be denied treatment.

 

[kyzr]

I remember Obama's promise that Obamacare would save all families about $2,500 a year, it actually cost them about $10,000 a year in deductibles, meaning that they basically pay premiums AND pay deductibles to see a doctor. McCain really screwed up not killing Obamacare when he had the chance.

The democrats are running on "single payer" Medicare for all, where the government pays for all healthcare, and its FREE when needed. I can't imagine the lines of people waiting to see doctors. I wonder what GS pay grade doctors would get?

These two links basically prove two main points:
1. About 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare system. Can you say "pre-existing conditions"?
Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource

Any better ideas??

Several.

First of all, people need to be getting their health insurance individually, the way they buy every other insurance they use, rather than being dependent on an employer to decide which plan is going to be offered and how much it's going to cost them. This would require several things.

1) Allow health insurance to be sold across state lines to increase competition.
2) Allow insurance companies more scope to tailor policies and coverage to what their customers want to buy.
3) Give individual purchasers the same sort of tax breaks on their insurance that employers currently enjoy.
4) Allow customers to form their own associations through which to buy insurance and get discounts available for larger customer pools.

Second of all, the patients need to also be the customers when it comes to using healthcare. Rather than mandating expansion of EVERY policy to cover EVERY possible use of medical care, we need to expand the use and availability of HSA and flexible spending accounts. Instead of sending premiums to an insurance company every paycheck, that money goes into an account pre-tax, and waits there for you to use it. And then when you need to visit a doctor, YOU see the prices, YOU decide what to spend and where. Prices for medical care will become lower and less obscure when doctors aren't having to figure out how to get around a bunch of bean-counters and algorithms at some insurance company.

Heard all this before for saving Obamacare. If 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare resources they need to pay more. The rest of us can't afford the high deductibles to keep everyone alive to 100. There needs to be lifetime limits on what we can afford, or the entire system will collapse. Medicare will be insolvent in 2026. Medicaid needs to be cut and managed better....
The real reason health care is bankrupting America

You've heard it all before because it's still true. Facts often work that way.

I have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with anything I said, given that none of the things you're harping on would be the case if my steps were implemented.

No offense, I'm looking at your recommendations as "fixing Obamacare". like Alexander & Murray tried to do
Inside the collapse of a bipartisan Obamacare deal

Congress & the Senate are a mess. They can't agree on anything. Hell, Ryan and the GOP couldn't even agree on how to fix immigration. Your fixes are fine, I support them, but I don't think they get us back to good healthcare with low deductibles, like we had before Obamacare.

Offense taken, since nothing I said had anything to do with "fixing" Obamacare, and would in fact necessitate doing away with it.

By all means, tell me precisely how what I said is "fixing Obamacare" and not giving us good healthcare with less cost? Explain to me how free markets and competitions are "fixing Obamacare", or putting decisions in the hands of the individuals rather than employers or bureaucrats, or making the patients the customers who need to be satisfied rather than third-party payers. How does ANY of that relate to Obamacare? How does any of the shit you've posted here or in your previous so-called "response" relate to anything I said?

Yeah, I am absolutely, 100% offended that you presumed to respond to my post without bothering to really read it - TWICE! - because you were in too big a hurry to shout your own views over and over.

No offense <again> but you might want to start with where we are, and then put your road map in to where we end up with good healthcare. Right now we have Obamacare, that's why I assumed that your recommendations were mostly the same (similar) to what Alexander-Murray proposed to fix Obamacare. So let me try again to see what you're proposing:

0. Repeal Obamacare, get back to a free market healthcare system run by insurance companies, with premiums, deductibles, and new stipulations
1-5 as you suggest, sell across state lines, many plan options, insurance premiums are tax deductible, customers can pool by region/hospital to get better pricing, setup HSAs for catastrophic coverage or deductibles? (you need to pay premiums to insurance companies or else you're a cash customer) You don't mention deductibles? Obamacare has $10,000 for many, I thought that was what your HSA was for, pay premiums, plus have HSAs for emergencies/deductibles.

Just trying to understand what your healthcare system would look like....

 

[kyzr]

You can't go thru the grocery store and say "we're hungry" so thanks for the free food, since other people are paying for theirs since they have jobs.
You can't go to Walmart's and get stuff you need and then say you aren't paying for it.
You can't go to the barber, meat market, iTunes, or the cable TV or phone company and say you want service but aren't going to pay for it.
Same with a new car, or new clothes, or anything you want...

So why is it that dems think that healthcare and pharmaceuticals need to be free and someone else will pay for them?

Because as a country we have decided that we do not want to see people dead on the streets because they could not afford medical care.

you need to speak for yourself,,,cause we as a country have decided a fucking thing,,,,

Yes we have, that is why we have laws that force medical personnel and hospitals to treat people irregardless of their ability to pay, signed into law by Reagan and has been the law of the land ever since.

One real case was an illegal in a coma in a hospital for years, wasting millions of needed healthcare dollars. There needs to be some common sense limits used. Stupid laws need to be changed.

So I guess you have a link somewhere to prove this?

No link, just my cousin the hospital administrator's story. Its true, he has no reason to lie. He went to DC to see what they could do, but to no avail, he was not allowed by law to pull the plug.

 

[kyzr]

I remember Obama's promise that Obamacare would save all families about $2,500 a year, it actually cost them about $10,000 a year in deductibles, meaning that they basically pay premiums AND pay deductibles to see a doctor. McCain really screwed up not killing Obamacare when he had the chance.

The democrats are running on "single payer" Medicare for all, where the government pays for all healthcare, and its FREE when needed. I can't imagine the lines of people waiting to see doctors. I wonder what GS pay grade doctors would get?

These two links basically prove two main points:
1. About 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare system. Can you say "pre-existing conditions"?
Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource

Any better ideas??

Are you and others like you aware that nearly 30% of all healthcare costs are due to the below?
Please tell me you understand the implications that the 1946 Federal law that prevents suing doctors under Federal contract wouldn't help reduce this $1 Trillion a year waste!

View attachment 256395

So are you suggesting that malpractice awards have "caps" like some states?
State-by-State Medical Malpractice Damages Caps

Do you support Trump's new GOP Bill to limit medical malpractice?
This GOP Health Bill Proposes New Limits To Medical Malpractice Awards

 

[alang1216]

[
sorry but the constitution is what tells the government that they have no say in our rights and are forbidden from trying to regulate/control/restrict them,,,,

You're almost there. The constitution spells out which rights the government takes for itself and which rights it delegates to states to individuals.

 

[dblack]

If government is paying the bills, government will make the call. We're you born yesterday?

You think that's how Medicaid works? Or the VA?

Yes. Medicaid and VA benefits are determined by politicians.

Benefits, as in payment. Not care. Care is determined by the drs.

Yeah. And they don't care about getting paid.

View attachment 256438

Cute pic. But there's nothing circular going on. I'm merely pointing out that controlling health insurance, in particular declaring a single payer for health car and controlling that pipeline, means government will control health care. And every politician who wants to score points with their base, or scare people into voting their way, will use that power to their benefit.

Can you really deny it?

 

[dblack]

All good points and, I would add, IF people start not taking care of themselves (with government health care), you can be rest assured that the government will step in and make sure those folks either take care of themselves or be denied treatment.

Exactly. And, depending on which way the political winds are blowing, there's a good chance you won't agree with their vision of what it means to take care of yourself.

 

[progressive hunter]

[
sorry but the constitution is what tells the government that they have no say in our rights and are forbidden from trying to regulate/control/restrict them,,,,

You're almost there. The constitution spells out which rights the government takes for itself and which rights it delegates to states to individuals.

the government doesnt have rights,,,only people have rights, governments have duties and responsibility's,,,

again I think youre reading the russian constitution,,,

 

[healthmyths]

I remember Obama's promise that Obamacare would save all families about $2,500 a year, it actually cost them about $10,000 a year in deductibles, meaning that they basically pay premiums AND pay deductibles to see a doctor. McCain really screwed up not killing Obamacare when he had the chance.

The democrats are running on "single payer" Medicare for all, where the government pays for all healthcare, and its FREE when needed. I can't imagine the lines of people waiting to see doctors. I wonder what GS pay grade doctors would get?

These two links basically prove two main points:
1. About 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare system. Can you say "pre-existing conditions"?
Does 20% of the population really use 80% of health care dollars?
2. The bottom 50% of the population by income pays basically nothing for healthcare
How do health expenditures vary across the population? - Peterson-Kaiser Health System Tracker

How can we improve the US healthcare system?
1. The bottom half of the population needs to work to get healthcare, medicaid needs to be cut
2. The 20% of the sickest need top pay more for healthcare since they use most of the resource

Any better ideas??

Are you and others like you aware that nearly 30% of all healthcare costs are due to the below?
Please tell me you understand the implications that the 1946 Federal law that prevents suing doctors under Federal contract wouldn't help reduce this $1 Trillion a year waste!

View attachment 256395

So are you suggesting that malpractice awards have "caps" like some states?
State-by-State Medical Malpractice Damages Caps

Do you support Trump's new GOP Bill to limit medical malpractice?
This GOP Health Bill Proposes New Limits To Medical Malpractice Awards

Well according to the Jackson study Federal doctors did less than 48% defensive medicine practices. Maybe we should have a similar law for non-Federal physicians.

 

[Pilot1]

[
sorry but the constitution is what tells the government that they have no say in our rights and are forbidden from trying to regulate/control/restrict them,,,,

You're almost there. The constitution spells out which rights the government takes for itself and which rights it delegates to states to individuals.

the government doesnt have rights,,,only people have rights, governments have duties and responsibility's,,,

again I think youre reading the russian constitution,,,

Exactly, and the government does not grant us rights. We possess them Naturally, as human beings (whether you believe in a higher power or not). All The People can do is structure government to PROTECT those natural rights, and the Founders did a pretty good job of that with the Constitution. However, corrupt politicians and corrupt courts have done a good job of circumventing those laws. Much of what government does is ILLEGAL and wrong.

 

[healthmyths]

Of course I don't want the government to run healthcare. Everything they run is fucked up.

According to the Medicare Trustees:
Trustees Reports

A SUMMARY OF THE 2018 ANNUAL REPORTS
Social Security and Medicare Boards of Trustees

Page 1..
Social Security and Medicare together accounted for 42 percent of Federal program expenditures in fiscal year 2017.

Both Social Security and Medicare will experience cost growth substantially in excess of GDP growth through the mid-2030s
due to rapid population aging caused by the large baby-boom generation entering retirement and lower-birth-rate generations entering employment
The Trustees project that the combined trust funds will be depleted in 2034, the same year projected in last year’s report.

The Trustees project that the HI Trust Fund (Part A hospital) will be depleted in 2026, three years earlier than projected in last year’s report
At that time dedicated revenues will be sufficient to pay 91 percent of HI costs.

 

[alang1216]

the government doesnt have rights,,,only people have rights, governments have duties and responsibility's,,,

again I think youre reading the russian constitution,,,

The gov't enumerates and secures your rights. The rest is semantics.

Is the Russian constitution the one with the Bill of Rights?

 

[progressive hunter]

the government doesnt have rights,,,only people have rights, governments have duties and responsibility's,,,

again I think youre reading the russian constitution,,,

The gov't enumerates and secures your rights. The rest is semantics.

Is the Russian constitution the one with the Bill of Rights?

no they dont,,,the constitution enumerates them and restricts or instructs what the government does or doesnt do

 

[dblack]

the government doesnt have rights,,,only people have rights, governments have duties and responsibility's,,,

again I think youre reading the russian constitution,,,

The gov't enumerates and secures your rights.

No, it doesn't. It enumerates and establishes the powers of government. Your confusion is exactly why some of the founders were opposed to the Bill of Rights. They saw our rights as innumerable, and they worried that highlighting some of them via amendments to the Constitution would lead people to believe otherwise. Apparently, they were right.

 

[alang1216]

The gov't enumerates and secures your rights.

No, it doesn't. It enumerates and establishes the powers of government. Your confusion is exactly why some of the founders were opposed to the Bill of Rights. They saw our rights as innumerable, and they worried that highlighting some of them via amendments to the Constitution would lead people to believe otherwise. Apparently, they were right.

Do you mean inalienable? As in Thomas Jefferson (using the un- variant) wrote that all men are "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights" including "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. If so those rights, like all rights, are bestowed by higher powers, either God or government.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Several.

First of all, people need to be getting their health insurance individually, the way they buy every other insurance they use, rather than being dependent on an employer to decide which plan is going to be offered and how much it's going to cost them. This would require several things.

1) Allow health insurance to be sold across state lines to increase competition.
2) Allow insurance companies more scope to tailor policies and coverage to what their customers want to buy.
3) Give individual purchasers the same sort of tax breaks on their insurance that employers currently enjoy.
4) Allow customers to form their own associations through which to buy insurance and get discounts available for larger customer pools.

Second of all, the patients need to also be the customers when it comes to using healthcare. Rather than mandating expansion of EVERY policy to cover EVERY possible use of medical care, we need to expand the use and availability of HSA and flexible spending accounts. Instead of sending premiums to an insurance company every paycheck, that money goes into an account pre-tax, and waits there for you to use it. And then when you need to visit a doctor, YOU see the prices, YOU decide what to spend and where. Prices for medical care will become lower and less obscure when doctors aren't having to figure out how to get around a bunch of bean-counters and algorithms at some insurance company.

Heard all this before for saving Obamacare. If 20% of the population uses 80% of the healthcare resources they need to pay more. The rest of us can't afford the high deductibles to keep everyone alive to 100. There needs to be lifetime limits on what we can afford, or the entire system will collapse. Medicare will be insolvent in 2026. Medicaid needs to be cut and managed better....
The real reason health care is bankrupting America

You've heard it all before because it's still true. Facts often work that way.

I have no idea what the rest of your post has to do with anything I said, given that none of the things you're harping on would be the case if my steps were implemented.

No offense, I'm looking at your recommendations as "fixing Obamacare". like Alexander & Murray tried to do
Inside the collapse of a bipartisan Obamacare deal

Congress & the Senate are a mess. They can't agree on anything. Hell, Ryan and the GOP couldn't even agree on how to fix immigration. Your fixes are fine, I support them, but I don't think they get us back to good healthcare with low deductibles, like we had before Obamacare.

Offense taken, since nothing I said had anything to do with "fixing" Obamacare, and would in fact necessitate doing away with it.

By all means, tell me precisely how what I said is "fixing Obamacare" and not giving us good healthcare with less cost? Explain to me how free markets and competitions are "fixing Obamacare", or putting decisions in the hands of the individuals rather than employers or bureaucrats, or making the patients the customers who need to be satisfied rather than third-party payers. How does ANY of that relate to Obamacare? How does any of the shit you've posted here or in your previous so-called "response" relate to anything I said?

Yeah, I am absolutely, 100% offended that you presumed to respond to my post without bothering to really read it - TWICE! - because you were in too big a hurry to shout your own views over and over.

No offense <again> but you might want to start with where we are, and then put your road map in to where we end up with good healthcare. Right now we have Obamacare, that's why I assumed that your recommendations were mostly the same (similar) to what Alexander-Murray proposed to fix Obamacare. So let me try again to see what you're proposing:

0. Repeal Obamacare, get back to a free market healthcare system run by insurance companies, with premiums, deductibles, and new stipulations
1-5 as you suggest, sell across state lines, many plan options, insurance premiums are tax deductible, customers can pool by region/hospital to get better pricing, setup HSAs for catastrophic coverage or deductibles? (you need to pay premiums to insurance companies or else you're a cash customer) You don't mention deductibles? Obamacare has $10,000 for many, I thought that was what your HSA was for, pay premiums, plus have HSAs for emergencies/deductibles.

Just trying to understand what your healthcare system would look like....

What you do or don't ASSume is not my problem. Maybe you should just read people's posts for what's there, rather than what you project onto them. Had I meant, "Let's add this onto the existing Obamacare garbage to spruce that system up", I'd have said so.

You might WANT me to "start where we are" by doing that; that's not my problem. I'm starting where we are by clearing the decks of the bullshit and failure, and replacing it with a better plan. Yes, I am absolutely saying that what we need to do is repeal and replace Obamacare, as our craven junkless Congressional Republicans promised so often, with a REAL system that REALLY works.

Let me take this moment to reiterate that my biggest - possibly only - problem with the GOP is that they don't appear to have a complete set of testicles amongst them.

As for deductibles, they're a regular part of insurance. However, how high your deductible is depends on a number of factors. If we had a system that put individuals in the driver's seat as the customer, then the policy options available to them would be tailored and customized to offer a wide range of choices. YOU decide whether you want to accept high deductibles in exchange for low premiums, or vice versa. (Mind you, the accompanying HSA would mitigate a lot of the pain of high deductibles if you ended up needing a lot of care).

That is EXACTLY why I included encouraging more use of HSAs in my list. I'm looking for a system that's flexible and accommodating to a wide variety of needs - rather than one-size-fits-all - and that puts people in the position of taking personal responsibility and becoming informed, while also giving them the power to make that work well for them.

 

[Gornoodle]

Nobody is denied healthcare in the U.S. If you can not afford to pay you can walk into, or be delivered to any hospital and get healthcare provided to you. The question we should be asking is can we provide that service in a more efficient, and equitable manner. Not how can we penalize most of America, and hand over yet more power to our incompetent government.

That is not true, Obama made it so if you go to emergency, you will be stabilized. But then they can send you home.
I was in emergency with my wife about 5 months ago and iI overheard a woman with serious heart trouble being sent away. They did take the trouble to call other hospitals to see if they would take her, but they refused her. I don't know what happened to her.