[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Foxfyre]

I think that the answer is "enough".

Nope. When have liberals ever said what they have is "enough?"

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

Agreed. There is no justification for the spending crazy Congress and Administration we had during the Bush years.

On January 19, 2001 (when Bush was inaugurated) the National debt was $5,728,195,796,181.57.

On January 16, 2009 (when Obama was inaugurated) the National debt was $10,628,881,485,510.23.

If you do the math, the debt during the Bush Administration increased just under $5 trillion dollars.

However, to keep things in perspective:

The National Debt passed the $17 trillion dollar mark last week and is increasing at roughly $10 or more billion dollars each and every day.

That means that President Obama has increased the Debt well over $6 trillion dollars in less than five years and we have more than three years to go. And the debt clock is speeding up. Even at the current rate of spending, at the end of eight years he will have increased the National Debt by more than $10 trillion, and the CBO numbers suggest a much more grim prognosis than that.

There's all kinds of supporting evidence for those numbers here:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/320439-the-debt-clock-is-overheating.html

How to you calculate a 'fair share' per tax payer with numbers like that? Considering that every dollar taken in taxes is a dollar drained from the economy, how much can the government take before the whole thing collapses?

 

[PMZ]

When there's enough to pay the bills.

Stopping spending on new things like we have an unlimited credit card would help us pay the bills ... Too bad Progressive Liberals don't understand that.

.

Descretionary spending reduction has been underway for decades. We'd be in great shape now if Bush's taxing had kept up with his spending.

 

[PMZ]

Nope. When have liberals ever said what they have is "enough?"

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

 

[Foxfyre]

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[BlackSand]

Descretionary spending reduction has been underway for decades. We'd be in great shape now if Bush's taxing had kept up with his spending.

Yeah ... I can see where blaming President Bush is really going to fix our spending problems.
Pretty sure he didn't just add a couple of trillion to the debt with the Affordable Care Act.

In fact ... I don't think President Bush has added any new discretionary spending in quite some time ... Too bad Progressive Liberals don't realize that.

.

 

[PMZ]

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

 

[Spiderman]

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Government doesn't produce goods.

Tell me what product have you ever bought that was produced by the government?

 

[kaz]

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

$1.5 trillion deficits, a $15 trillion national debt, a downgrade for our deficits and debts as a percent of GDP...

As I said, you're really not following DC very closely...

 

[kaz]

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Bush was a fiscal liberal, with spending he's one of you.

You'll probably disagree with that then call him a neocon...

 

[BlackSand]

Bush was a fiscal liberal, with spending he's one of you.

You'll probably disagree with that then call him a neocon...

I think the point he is trying to make is that since President Bush spent money like there was no tomorrow ... Then it is okay for Progressive Liberals to do the same.
None of what PMZ says actually indicates there is a spending problem ... Nor does it indicate what is "enough" or what the "fair share" should actually be.



For strictly self-serving purposes ... I am just responding to PMZ to increase my post count and make more options for posting available ... PMZ seems like the perfect candidate for such a mundane task.

 

[bripat9643]

I think that the answer is "enough".

Nope. When have liberals ever said what they have is "enough?"

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

Never, in other words.

 

[bripat9643]

When there's enough to pay the bills.

Stopping spending on new things like we have an unlimited credit card would help us pay the bills ... Too bad Progressive Liberals don't understand that.

.

Descretionary spending reduction has been underway for decades. We'd be in great shape now if Bush's taxing had kept up with his spending.

Horseshit. Name a single program liberals have ever cut.

 

[bripat9643]

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Who wants their "goods" and "services?"

 

[bripat9643]

When there's enough to pay the bills. It's too bad Bush didn't know that.

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

Just refer to the history of federal spending.

 

[Peterf]

I entirely agree. In those rare cases where it really is impossible to inject competition into an essential service it must be run by the state or some other public authority. This is not socialism but realism.

This is a variation of the ever-popular leftist "all or nothing" argument: if you don't think socialism is splendiferous, you MUST want anarchy and no government whatsoever. It is simply impossible for leftist minds to scrape up enough brain cells to comprehend the subtlety of "some VERY LIMITED government to handle VERY FEW tasks".

The difference between conservatives and liberals is evidence. Conservatives believe what they're told. Liberals get evidence.

I disagree. Leftists embrace ideologly they swoon over Marxist claptrap, or the vaporings of some French intellectual. Conservatives are far more pragmatic and have a healthy distrust of grand political theories. Even when expounded by the world's greatest orator and community organiser.

Sorry, but you have it 180 degrees wrong.

 

[Foxfyre]

Evidence?

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Governments are not business. Business creates wealth; government absorbs it.

Businesses produce a product or service that people are willing to pay for or the business goes out of business.

Government takes its operating capital at gunpoint and charges the same people it took the money from for any goods or services that it provides. And only in a very narrow category of social contract do the people ever get their full money's worth for what goods and services government provides after it swallows up a hefty percentage of it just to feed the government.

 

[PMZ]

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Government doesn't produce goods.

Tell me what product have you ever bought that was produced by the government?

It is mostly services. But there are goods like the Interstate Highway System as well.

 

[PMZ]

you're not following dc are you? There isn't enough money to pay liberal bills

Evidence?

$1.5 trillion deficits, a $15 trillion national debt, a downgrade for our deficits and debts as a percent of GDP...

As I said, you're really not following DC very closely...

You're the one who's not. Our entire debt came from Bush conservative policies. His wars. His refusal to collect taxes from wealthy friends and family. Recovery from his Great Recession. All instead of paying off, off, off the entire national debt as the CBO said would happen if he had continued Clintonomics.

 

[PMZ]

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Bush was a fiscal liberal, with spending he's one of you.

You'll probably disagree with that then call him a neocon...

Bush was a Reagan conservative and accomplished what Reagan accomplished. Massive debt.

 

[PMZ]

Stopping spending on new things like we have an unlimited credit card would help us pay the bills ... Too bad Progressive Liberals don't understand that.

.

Descretionary spending reduction has been underway for decades. We'd be in great shape now if Bush's taxing had kept up with his spending.

Horseshit. Name a single program liberals have ever cut.

Read the reference jerk.