[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[PMZ]

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Who wants their "goods" and "services?"

The American people who elect them. Why are you still here? Why aren't you in Somalia enjoying anarchy?

Grow a pair if you have to.

 

[PMZ]

This is a variation of the ever-popular leftist "all or nothing" argument: if you don't think socialism is splendiferous, you MUST want anarchy and no government whatsoever. It is simply impossible for leftist minds to scrape up enough brain cells to comprehend the subtlety of "some VERY LIMITED government to handle VERY FEW tasks".

The difference between conservatives and liberals is evidence. Conservatives believe what they're told. Liberals get evidence.

I disagree. Leftists embrace ideologly they swoon over Marxist claptrap, or the vaporings of some French intellectual. Conservatives are far more pragmatic and have a healthy distrust of grand political theories. Even when expounded by the world's greatest orator and community organiser.

Sorry, but you have it 180 degrees wrong.

Then how come we never see any evidence from conservatives here? Just recital of Fox News propaganda.

 

[bripat9643]

Descretionary spending reduction has been underway for decades. We'd be in great shape now if Bush's taxing had kept up with his spending.

Horseshit. Name a single program liberals have ever cut.

Read the reference jerk.

What "reference" is that, asshole?

 

[bripat9643]

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Who wants their "goods" and "services?"

The American people who elect them. Why are you still here? Why aren't you in Somalia enjoying anarchy?

Grow a pair if you have to.

Somalia isn't free of government. It has lots of government. Why haven't you moved to Cuba? That's the system you endorse, isn't it?

BTW, you have to be delusional to believe people actually want government services. The proof is that given the option, no one would pay for them.

 

[bripat9643]

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Bush was a fiscal liberal, with spending he's one of you.

You'll probably disagree with that then call him a neocon...

Bush was a Reagan conservative and accomplished what Reagan accomplished. Massive debt.

Bush was a liberal. He accomplished what all liberals accomplish, debt and decline.

 

[bripat9643]

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Government doesn't produce goods.

Tell me what product have you ever bought that was produced by the government?

It is mostly services. But there are goods like the Interstate Highway System as well.

By "goods" you mean huge overpriced boondoggles. Armed robbery and extortion aren't a "services."

 

[PMZ]

Here you go:

U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Here you go.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34424.pdf

Just like business, governments can't afford to give away the goods and services that they produce. A concept that most conservatives struggle with and a complete obscurity to Bush.

Governments are not business. Business creates wealth; government absorbs it.

Businesses produce a product or service that people are willing to pay for or the business goes out of business.

Government takes its operating capital at gunpoint and charges the same people it took the money from for any goods or services that it provides. And only in a very narrow category of social contract do the people ever get their full money's worth for what goods and services government provides after it swallows up a hefty percentage of it just to feed the government.

Hard to believe that you ran a business with this little knowledge of economics. Shows you how low that bar is set.

Let's try an example. You as a consumer buy a plane ticket. Included in the price is say $20 as your share of the cost of the pilot and $5 as your share of the cost of the air traffic controllers who got you safely off of the ground, to your destination and safely landed.
Your share of the pilots salary gets combined with the other passengers and the pilot uses that to pay his bills including the bill from your company.

Your share of the traffic controllers salary gets combined with the other passengers and the controller uses that to pay his bills including the bill from your company.

The means of production that the pilot used, the plane, is paid for by the profit that was included in your tickets from previous trips and owned by the airline.

The means of production that the controller used, his radar, is paid for by the taxes you pay and is owned by all of us.

Tell me what the difference is.

 

[PMZ]

Who wants their "goods" and "services?"

The American people who elect them. Why are you still here? Why aren't you in Somalia enjoying anarchy?

Grow a pair if you have to.

Somalia isn't free of government. It has lots of government. Why haven't you moved to Cuba? That's the system you endorse, isn't it?

BTW, you have to be delusional to believe people actually want government services. The proof is that given the option, no one would pay for them.

Perhaps the reason that you are still here is that you are as ignorant of Somalia as you are of the US.

No government. Tribal rule. You can have your own army. In fact, even better, you need your own army for protection. NO TAXES.

 

[bripat9643]

The American people who elect them. Why are you still here? Why aren't you in Somalia enjoying anarchy?

Grow a pair if you have to.

Somalia isn't free of government. It has lots of government. Why haven't you moved to Cuba? That's the system you endorse, isn't it?

BTW, you have to be delusional to believe people actually want government services. The proof is that given the option, no one would pay for them.

Perhaps the reason that you are still here is that you are as ignorant of Somalia as you are of the US.

No government. Tribal rule. You can have your own army. In fact, even better, you need your own army for protection. NO TAXES.

If you have an army, then you're the government, dipshit. What do you think government is?

When are you moving to Cuba, asshole?

 

[Peterf]

The difference between conservatives and liberals is evidence. Conservatives believe what they're told. Liberals get evidence.

I disagree. Leftists embrace ideologly they swoon over Marxist claptrap, or the vaporings of some French intellectual. Conservatives are far more pragmatic and have a healthy distrust of grand political theories. Even when expounded by the world's greatest orator and community organiser.

Sorry, but you have it 180 degrees wrong.

Then how come we never see any evidence from conservatives here? Just recital of Fox News propaganda.

You don't see 'evidence' because a message board is a place for people to post their opinions, not a court of law. They are under no obligation to provide 'proof' on demand.

You won't get any 'Fox News Propaganda' from this conservative - not least because I've never seen Fox News.

 

[Peterf]

Somalia isn't free of government. It has lots of government. Why haven't you moved to Cuba? That's the system you endorse, isn't it?

BTW, you have to be delusional to believe people actually want government services. The proof is that given the option, no one would pay for them.

Perhaps the reason that you are still here is that you are as ignorant of Somalia as you are of the US.

No government. Tribal rule. You can have your own army. In fact, even better, you need your own army for protection. NO TAXES.

If you have an army, then you're the government, dipshit. What do you think government is?

When are you moving to Cuba, asshole?

You often make good debating points but then ruin them by childish use of words like 'dipshit' and 'asshole'. Why do you do it? It just make you look stupid and deters potential friends from supporting you.

 

[PMZ]

Somalia isn't free of government. It has lots of government. Why haven't you moved to Cuba? That's the system you endorse, isn't it?

BTW, you have to be delusional to believe people actually want government services. The proof is that given the option, no one would pay for them.

Perhaps the reason that you are still here is that you are as ignorant of Somalia as you are of the US.

No government. Tribal rule. You can have your own army. In fact, even better, you need your own army for protection. NO TAXES.

If you have an army, then you're the government, dipshit. What do you think government is?

When are you moving to Cuba, asshole?

Tell that to the Afghan warlords.

 

[PMZ]

I disagree. Leftists embrace ideologly they swoon over Marxist claptrap, or the vaporings of some French intellectual. Conservatives are far more pragmatic and have a healthy distrust of grand political theories. Even when expounded by the world's greatest orator and community organiser.

Sorry, but you have it 180 degrees wrong.

Then how come we never see any evidence from conservatives here? Just recital of Fox News propaganda.

You don't see 'evidence' because a message board is a place for people to post their opinions, not a court of law. They are under no obligation to provide 'proof' on demand.

You won't get any 'Fox News Propaganda' from this conservative - not least because I've never seen Fox News.

I believe that. But the question remains. If not from Fox, Exeter?

 

[bripat9643]

Perhaps the reason that you are still here is that you are as ignorant of Somalia as you are of the US.

No government. Tribal rule. You can have your own army. In fact, even better, you need your own army for protection. NO TAXES.

If you have an army, then you're the government, dipshit. What do you think government is?

When are you moving to Cuba, asshole?

Tell that to the Afghan warlords.

A "lord" is the leader of a government.

 

[PMZ]

If you have an army, then you're the government, dipshit. What do you think government is?

When are you moving to Cuba, asshole?

Tell that to the Afghan warlords.

A "lord" is the leader of a government.

Good point. Join the warlords and teach them anarchy. Tell them nobody has power. Tell them that everyone is free.

Report back on the results. Let us know what nobody in charge leads to. Tell them that it will be just like a corporation with nobody in charge. Everybody's the boss.

 

[Valox]

The rich should have an effective 30% tax rate.

 

[RKMBrown]

The rich should have an effective 30% tax rate.

The poor should have an effective 50% tax rate. Give them a reason to want to work.

 

[Valox]

The rich should have an effective 30% tax rate.

The poor should have an effective 50% tax rate. Give them a reason to want to work.

While we are at it, lets subsidize the rich...oh wait, we already do that.

 

[RKMBrown]

The rich should have an effective 30% tax rate.

The poor should have an effective 50% tax rate. Give them a reason to want to work.

While we are at it, lets subsidize the rich...oh wait, we already do that.

That's the way it should be. The rich get the rewards and the lazy good for nothings actually have to pay their fair share.

Let's just make the taxes a flat amount. We'll spend 3t a year divide that by 400million people. There's your bill. 7500 per person. Can't pay it go to jail. Or we cut spending.

 

[Peterf]

Then how come we never see any evidence from conservatives here? Just recital of Fox News propaganda.

You don't see 'evidence' because a message board is a place for people to post their opinions, not a court of law. They are under no obligation to provide 'proof' on demand.

You won't get any 'Fox News Propaganda' from this conservative - not least because I've never seen Fox News.

I believe that. But the question remains. If not from Fox, Exeter?

'Exeter' to me is but a town in Devon. Does it have some other significance?

You've seen a few of my posts and I would have hoped that would have realised by now that I do not 'recite' anyone's propaganda - having sometimes supported points that you have made.