[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[Descartes]

Why would the bosses work, or even more important, why would they risk their capital, if they had to pay a 76% tax rate on their earnings? Why wouldn't they prefer to go lay on a beach in the Caribbean somewhere?

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

You are correct in saying that. I'm not saying only the rich should pay taxes. Return all of the tax brackets to were they were in the 1950s. It would still close the gap between the rich and the poor immensely. Taxes used to and should be a huge revenue creator for the government, but the tax rates today don't give the national government any were near the amount of revenue that it needs from taxes to be successful. Raises the tax rates for all of the tax brackets. That would go a long way in recreating that strong middle class we had in the 50s.

 

[Descartes]

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

 

[Redfish]

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

OK, so you want to stick it to the rich, great. Would you still allow 50% of the population to pay zero federal income taxes?

BTW, the cap gains tax and other so-called loopholes were put into the tax code to incentivize investment in business in order to grow the economy. When people with money buy stock they help businesses start up or grow, that creates jobs and govt revenue.

the answer is not as simple as 'screw the rich'

 

[zeke]

That's why I don't have liberal friends. I'm not on good terms with any family members who voted for Obama. I told them where to get off. Of course, now they all hate Obama as well.

(For me) It took a Repub President invading a country that didn't attack us for me to understand that Repubs were to be considered untrustworthy.

It took you seven years later when a black dude was elected President for you to decide that the black guy couldn't be trusted.

See ANY difference? Of course not. It's just politics as usual with you.

Just ignore the Democrat controlled Congress that authorized it and the many Democrats that supported it.

As you Repubs like to remind everyone and of course I agree. The buck stops at the White House. For both a Repub President and a Dem President. That's why they are the leaders of their respective parties. To take the blame and the credit.

And of course you want to shift the blame for the disaster known as Iraq, as far away from the Repubs as possible. You all have been doing that ever since it was known that the war in Iraq was a bad bad mistake.

Why are you repubs not PROUD of the disaster in Iraq. You all wanted it so bad that you sold the idea of invading Iraq to the rest of the country. Be proud of your mistakes. After all, you break it, you own it. (who said that)?

 

[zeke]

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

OK, so you want to stick it to the rich, great. Would you still allow 50% of the population to pay zero federal income taxes?

BTW, the cap gains tax and other so-called loopholes were put into the tax code to incentivize investment in business in order to grow the economy. When people with money buy stock they help businesses start up or grow, that creates jobs and govt revenue.

the answer is not as simple as 'screw the rich'

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

 

[Redfish]

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

OK, so you want to stick it to the rich, great. Would you still allow 50% of the population to pay zero federal income taxes?

BTW, the cap gains tax and other so-called loopholes were put into the tax code to incentivize investment in business in order to grow the economy. When people with money buy stock they help businesses start up or grow, that creates jobs and govt revenue.

the answer is not as simple as 'screw the rich'

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

eliminating EIC is a good idea, we agree.

the mortgage interest deduction exists as an incentive for people to own their homes rather than renting. It is a positive thing for the country.

I have said many times that govt spending should be cut across the board by 1/4 to 1/3. Cut every agency and program by the same %. balance spending to income.

collecting more taxes is not the answer, unless you think that govt can spend YOUR money better than you can.

and grow with the juvenile insults, it makes you look like a fool.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

OK, so you want to stick it to the rich, great. Would you still allow 50% of the population to pay zero federal income taxes?

BTW, the cap gains tax and other so-called loopholes were put into the tax code to incentivize investment in business in order to grow the economy. When people with money buy stock they help businesses start up or grow, that creates jobs and govt revenue.

the answer is not as simple as 'screw the rich'

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

The only fair solution is a flat tax. IMO

 

[Redfish]

OK, so you want to stick it to the rich, great. Would you still allow 50% of the population to pay zero federal income taxes?

BTW, the cap gains tax and other so-called loopholes were put into the tax code to incentivize investment in business in order to grow the economy. When people with money buy stock they help businesses start up or grow, that creates jobs and govt revenue.

the answer is not as simple as 'screw the rich'

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

The only fair solution is a flat tax. IMO

the libs don't like that because their voting base would have to start paying something.

I like the flat tax idea, and would include a provision that if your income was under $X you pay no taxes.

 

[dcraelin]

something both liberals and conservatives could agree on is the elimination of tax-exempt bonds. These bonds go into boondoggle after boondoggle at the local level. There elimination would at least slow down this idiotic spending by crooked local politicians, while also bringing in some more revenue to help pay down our colossal national debt.

 

[Spiderman]

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

Tax all dollars exactly the same just like every gallon of gas is taxed exactly the same.

Get rid of all deductions including personal and dependent deductions and lower the rate.

Institute a tax specifically targeted for debt and abolish it once the debt is paid off.

Cap government spending at 18% of GDP.

 

[DiamondDave]

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

You are correct in saying that. I'm not saying only the rich should pay taxes. Return all of the tax brackets to were they were in the 1950s. It would still close the gap between the rich and the poor immensely. Taxes used to and should be a huge revenue creator for the government, but the tax rates today don't give the national government any were near the amount of revenue that it needs from taxes to be successful. Raises the tax rates for all of the tax brackets. That would go a long way in recreating that strong middle class we had in the 50s.

It is not government's job to equalize outcome in a free society

Do you also realize that with the deductions, what was considered income, etc.. that the 90% tax rate in the 50's was a MYTH and that the EFFECTIVE tax rate was almost the same as it is today

And all citizens, regardless of how much or how little they make, should be paying income tax.. preferably at the same exact rate without deduction, exemption, or exception...

We don't have a revenue problem. we have an extreme government SPENDING problem

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

The only fair solution is a flat tax. IMO

the libs don't like that because their voting base would have to start paying something.

I like the flat tax idea, and would include a provision that if your income was under $X you pay no taxes.

I think every voting citizen should have some skin in the game no matter their income.

You have 47 percent of the population that doesn't pay federal income tax but vote on issues that affect the lives of those that do.

 

[Spiderman]

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

Get rid of the EIC, get rid of the home interest deduction, raise the tax rate on the top earners to 45%. Tax all income as earned income.( No cap gains no deferred comp) None of the bullshit mechanisms that the ultra rich use to avoid taxes. Cut government spending 10% across the board.

You want to do ANYTHING about the debt or is it better to have the debt as something to bitch about?

You are exactly right. The "official" tax rate for the rich is 39.6%, but they don't pay anywhere near that because of the ridiculous amount of loopholes in the tax code. The tax code is outdated and just simply needs to be rewritten. There shouldn't be a way for the rich to pay lawyers to find loopholes so they pay more like a 15-20% tax rate.

You don't understand marginal tax rates do you?

No one pays the top marginal rate they fall into because the first dollar you earn is taxed differently than the last.

 

[DiamondDave]

I have read your posts before. I knew you had a reading comprehension problem but wtf.

You can't or didn't read the part about getting rid of the EIC? Do you know what the EIC is?

You can't read or didn't read the part about getting rid of the mortgage interest deduction?

I think you agree with the last thing I wrote. You and your kind don't really want to do anything about the debt. You all just want to bitch about it.

That sound about right to you?

The only fair solution is a flat tax. IMO

the libs don't like that because their voting base would have to start paying something.

I like the flat tax idea, and would include a provision that if your income was under $X you pay no taxes.

Such a proposal (tax floor) is simply a disguised progressive tax... I have shown this many times before with simple mathematics.. but for a quick view, let me just give a small example

Assume a salary floor of 10K and flat rate of 10%

Person A making 10K pays an effective 0% rate
Person B making 20K pays tax on 10K for a total of $1K and a 5% effective rate
Person C making 100K pays tax on $90K for a total of $9K for an effective rate of 9%
Person D making 1M pays tax on $990K for a total of $99K for an effective rate of 9.9%

So basically you have a falsely named flat tax...

 

[DiamondDave]

The only fair solution is a flat tax. IMO

the libs don't like that because their voting base would have to start paying something.

I like the flat tax idea, and would include a provision that if your income was under $X you pay no taxes.

I think every voting citizen should have some skin in the game no matter their income.

You have 47 percent of the population that doesn't pay federal income tax but vote on issues that affect the lives of those that do.

No citizen making even $1 should be exempt from income tax on that $1

 

[Katzndogz]

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

You are correct in saying that. I'm not saying only the rich should pay taxes. Return all of the tax brackets to were they were in the 1950s. It would still close the gap between the rich and the poor immensely. Taxes used to and should be a huge revenue creator for the government, but the tax rates today don't give the national government any were near the amount of revenue that it needs from taxes to be successful. Raises the tax rates for all of the tax brackets. That would go a long way in recreating that strong middle class we had in the 50s.

You can't have the same tax structure as we had in the 50s because we don't have the same economic conditions that we had in the 50s. In the 50s, most of the world was destroyed. The United States had the only functioning economy and the only functioning manufacturing sector. High taxes did not cause economic prosperity. High taxes were possible because of economic prosperity. We cannot have the same taxes as we had because the world is not destroyed today. No one is tied to manufacturing in the United States because the factories in Europe and Japan were bombed out of existence. China is no longer a rice paddy. India is not a colony of Great Britian, it is a player, a big player.

 

[Bern80]

The taxes were higher than 76% in the in the mid-1900s, when our economy was at its peak and America was experiencing the greatest boom it has ever had. Would there be some bosses who move to the Caribbean? I'm sure some would, but very few. The few that move are probably the bosses that are sending American jobs overseas by the thousands so they can make even more money and screw over the poor. The greed of the rich in our society today is disgusting. In the 1950s, the rich were happy too pay higher taxes for the good of the country. We could use that attitude right about now. And what happened to our economy when the rich's tax rate was 90%? Did our economy implode? No! Our middle class was huge which made our economy the strongest it had ever been and we were on top of the world.

Don't forget that even the lowest tax brackets were much higher so returning to the good old days would raise taxes on the lower incomes as well.

You are correct in saying that. I'm not saying only the rich should pay taxes. Return all of the tax brackets to were they were in the 1950s. It would still close the gap between the rich and the poor immensely. Taxes used to and should be a huge revenue creator for the government, but the tax rates today don't give the national government any were near the amount of revenue that it needs from taxes to be successful. Raises the tax rates for all of the tax brackets. That would go a long way in recreating that strong middle class we had in the 50s.

Really? You actually believe the government 'needs' more money? To be successful at what?

 

[kaz]

Evidence?

$1.5 trillion deficits, a $15 trillion national debt, a downgrade for our deficits and debts as a percent of GDP...

As I said, you're really not following DC very closely...

You're the one who's not. Our entire debt came from Bush conservative policies. His wars. His refusal to collect taxes from wealthy friends and family. Recovery from his Great Recession. All instead of paying off, off, off the entire national debt as the CBO said would happen if he had continued Clintonomics.

Five years into Obama W is still responsible for our "entire debt."

On taxes, the top 1% pay 40% of taxes, the top 5% pay 60%, the bottom 50% get more money back than they paid in.

You're a kook-aid swilling dumb ass.

 

[PMZ]

Liberalism has displaced conservatism primarily because conservatism in practice failed miserably. Look at the trajectory of the country under Bush policies. Look at the country under Obama's. Of course, in order to do that one has to turn off Fox and turn on news.

Conservatism failed because it's a completely self serving religion. It has no consideration for national issues. And national issues are what we have government for.

While it's just plain fun messing with conservative minds here, most of what's said is simple truth.

Fox is Republican 24/7/365 propaganda.

Government and business are complementary to each other.

We do have wealth inequality here that is extreme to the point of dysfunction.

We do have a mediocre health care non-system here that is a huge economic anchor and ACA is an effective first step in addressing it.

AGW is real and costly and the IPCC is the body of science that will empower politics to find the least expensive path by it.

The transition to fuel and waste free energy is necessary, and a very long and expensive project, and we've run out of time to waste.

These are all simple but inconvenient truths. The Fox propaganda obscures them. That's why it has and will fail. And why conservative politicians are nationally unelectable.

They earned the disrespect that they are shown daily by the American people.

 

[PMZ]

$1.5 trillion deficits, a $15 trillion national debt, a downgrade for our deficits and debts as a percent of GDP...

As I said, you're really not following DC very closely...

You're the one who's not. Our entire debt came from Bush conservative policies. His wars. His refusal to collect taxes from wealthy friends and family. Recovery from his Great Recession. All instead of paying off, off, off the entire national debt as the CBO said would happen if he had continued Clintonomics.

Five years into Obama W is still responsible for our "entire debt."

On taxes, the top 1% pay 40% of taxes, the top 5% pay 60%, the bottom 50% get more money back than they paid in.

You're a kook-aid swilling dumb ass.

The reason that the wealthy pay the taxes that they do, and the same for the poor, is because the wealthy, as expected, have outplayed the poor in wealth redistribution.

20% of the people have 85% of the wealth.

Anybody who expects that the 80% who share the 15% of the wealth to have money to pay taxes doesn't do arithmetic very well.