POLL: The GOP and "Socialism"

[OODA_Loop]

The capitalist makes nothing, produces nothing, invents nothing. He just takes from the people who do.

He assumes the risk and loss.

The profits he shares as jobs and incurs costs which create jobs.

 

[dblack]

The capitalist makes nothing, produces nothing, invents nothing. He just takes from the people who do.

Well, no. Capitalists make the most important decisions on our economy. That's why you think government should take over, right? You think the capitalists are making bad decisions and you'd like to see government in charge of capital instead. Or am I reading you wrong?

 

[Natural Citizen]

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

I'm more concerned with the sudden mainstream use of the term '' our Democracy'' like it's a form of government we have or something.

It's use is constant and splattered all over the airwaves and web by both theoretical political factions. It's very dangerous to our Republic to call it a Democracy. Again, both parties and their media counterparts are guilty of the practice.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Do you feel that America has any socialist elements?

We can start with the monetary policy. Though, technically Keynesian, it's rather socialist. We have a controlled economy where the government dictates the economy and monetary policy. We have economic interventionism. We have inflationism. We have a belief in deficit finance. We have central economic planning by a central bank. And we run a welfare state that both sides leech off.

Right now the government tells the market what to do instead of the other way around like the Framers intended where the market dictates what the government does.

We don't have have capitalism. We don't have free markets. Not by a long shot.

This is the main problem we face.

 

[Tehon]

Do you feel that America has any socialist elements?

We can start with the monetary policy. Though, technically Keynesian, it's rather socialist. We have a controlled economy where the government dictates the economy and monetary policy. We have economic interventionism. We have inflationism. We have a belief in deficit finance. We have central economic planning by a central bank. And we run a welfare state that both sides leech off.

Right now the government tells the market what to do instead of the other way around like the Framers intended where the market dictates what the government does.

We don't have have capitalism. We don't have free markets. Not by a long shot.

This is the main problem we face.

Capitalism is a system of production based on private property rights to the means of production. That is the system that we use, regardless of market considerations, which are purely a political consideration. You may not have free markets but you absolutely have capitalism.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

When more Americans realize what Democrats are and what they want to turn the United States into is VENEZUELA more Democrats will begin to walk out on the new Democratic Socialist Party.

Pointing out that Liberals are Socialists isn't meant to 'SCARE' anyone ... It's meant to EDUCATE them.

What they actually want to turn America into is more like Canada or Germany or Australia. Do you see a distinction between those countries and Venezuela?

More and more people do, and part of the reason is that they've heard the term SOCIALISM so much from the Right, that they decided to see what the fuss was about.

After checking it out, they see the difference between real socialism and Democratic socialism. And they're not afraid. Ironically, they can thank the Right for that.
.

 

[Mac1958]

Well, it could certainly be that I don't understand the context.

I never hear the distinction between socialism and social democracy from the Right. There is a clear difference, but they're constantly conflated. So I'm not sure if these people don't understand the difference, or don't want to.
.

Social Democracy is a fraud.
It's just Progressives trying to make Socialism sound less threatening.

Well, there ya go, that's my point.
.

My understanding was you were blaming the right for this.
DEMOCRATS are trying to render Socialism Harmless.

I'm just saying the Right doesn't understand that they have so over-used the word that it now isn't scaring people. Just like the Left did with "racism". Once again, the two ends are similar in their behaviors.

Equating real socialism with democratic socialism is like equating conservatism with strict libertarianism. It's simplistic and shallow and just not accurate, but I guess that's the nature of partisan politics.
.

Let me remind you.......very little is discussed in the political discourse unless the media first brings it up.
This is by design.
When 9 years ago Obama tried to act like he wasn't a socialist.....now the Democrats are embracing it.
I still think it's an absolute loser for them.
It's not our fault that we constantly have to defend ourselves from these scam-artists on the left.

It may (or may not) be an absolute loser for them now, but I'm just saying the word is scaring fewer and fewer people. The constant pointing at Venezuela doesn't work when people can look at other countries, too.

Many on the Right appear to REALLY NOT understand the difference between real socialism and Democratic socialism. It's all over this thread. It's not really all that complicated, but they don't see it. Okay. I know why that is, because talk radio purposely doesn't make the distinction, but pretty soon they'll need a better plan than to just scream the word.
.

 

[Tehon]

Social Democracy is a fraud.
It's just Progressives trying to make Socialism sound less threatening.

Well, there ya go, that's my point.
.

My understanding was you were blaming the right for this.
DEMOCRATS are trying to render Socialism Harmless.

I'm just saying the Right doesn't understand that they have so over-used the word that it now isn't scaring people. Just like the Left did with "racism". Once again, the two ends are similar in their behaviors.

Equating real socialism with democratic socialism is like equating conservatism with strict libertarianism. It's simplistic and shallow and just not accurate, but I guess that's the nature of partisan politics.
.

Let me remind you.......very little is discussed in the political discourse unless the media first brings it up.
This is by design.
When 9 years ago Obama tried to act like he wasn't a socialist.....now the Democrats are embracing it.
I still think it's an absolute loser for them.
It's not our fault that we constantly have to defend ourselves from these scam-artists on the left.

It may (or may not) be an absolute loser for them now, but I'm just saying the word is scaring fewer and fewer people. The constant pointing at Venezuela doesn't work when people can look at other countries, too.

Many on the Right appear to REALLY NOT understand the difference between real socialism and Democratic socialism. It's all over this thread. It's not really all that complicated, but they don't see it. Okay. I know why that is, because talk radio purposely doesn't make the distinction, but pretty soon they'll need a better plan than to just scream the word.
.

It's not just talk radio or even only a conservative problem.

"Anticommunist propaganda saturated our airwaves, schools, and political discourse. Despite repeated and often factitious references to the tyranny of the Red Menace, the anticommunist opinion makers never spelled out what communists actually did in the way of socio-economic policy. This might explain why, despite decades of Red-bashing propaganda, most Americans, including many who number themselves among the political cognoscenti, still cannot offer an informed statement about the social policies of communist societies."
Michael Parenti - Blackshirts and Reds

 

[JoeB131]

He assumes the risk and loss.

The profits he shares as jobs and incurs costs which create jobs.

But that's not even true anymore, either.

2008, the Capitalists took all sorts of risks and got big old bailouts...

We've capitalized profits and socialized risk.

Again, you aren't very bright, are you?

Well, no. Capitalists make the most important decisions on our economy. That's why you think government should take over, right? You think the capitalists are making bad decisions and you'd like to see government in charge of capital instead. Or am I reading you wrong?

I don't have to think it, I just have to point out that every last recession we've had has been because Capitalists got too fucking greedy and government, run by Republicans, weren't watching them.

Or were you asleep during the whole 2008 thing?

 

[sparky]

All socialist entitlement programs or waste fraud and abuse

Like those 800 military bases we have on this rock, allegedly protecting people who could give a sweet sh*t about freedom, human rights, and consistently vote against us in the UN?

yeah , waste....fraud....abuse

 

[Two Thumbs]

sadly, leftists don't care about the absolute horrors of socialism, they just want the power that comes with it.

Or we are just tired of the horrors of Corporatism...

what country has people raiding schools for food?
what political nonsense do they follow?


the level of absolute stoopidity to think socialism will work, this time, is just amazing.

please don't breed

 

[Mac1958]

This far into the thread, it's abundantly clear that many conservatives don't see or understand a difference between actual socialism (Venezuela) and democratic socialism (Canada, Germany, Australia).

Any guesses as to why that is?
.

 

[JoeB131]

what country has people raiding schools for food?
what political nonsense do they follow?


the level of absolute stoopidity to think socialism will work, this time, is just amazing.

please don't breed

It works just fine in Europe, thanks for asking.

I'm not sure why you need to point to Venezuela when most of hteir problems are due to 10 years of economic war the US and the rest of the hemisphere has been waging against it.

 

[JoeB131]

This far into the thread, it's abundantly clear that many conservatives don't see or understand a difference between actual socialism (Venezuela) and democratic socialism (Canada, Germany, Australia).

Any guesses as to why that is?

Because they aren't all smart and wise like you are, Stormy Mac.

 

[easyt65]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

When more Americans realize what Democrats are and what they want to turn the United States into is VENEZUELA more Democrats will begin to walk out on the new Democratic Socialist Party.

Pointing out that Liberals are Socialists isn't meant to 'SCARE' anyone ... It's meant to EDUCATE them.

What they actually want to turn America into is more like Canada or Germany or Australia. Do you see a distinction between those countries and Venezuela?

More and more people do, and part of the reason is that they've heard the term SOCIALISM so much from the Right, that they decided to see what the fuss was about.

After checking it out, they see the difference between real socialism and Democratic socialism. And they're not afraid. Ironically, they can thank the Right for that.
.

Compare 8 years under Obama's Democratic Socialism to less than 2 years under Trump.

Under Obama Americans endured Illegal spying on citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, USSC JUSTICES ... and opposition candidates .... using a weapons IRS to silence legal opposition to re-elections ... Stagnant / poor economy ... High unemployment, high enrollment in Food Stamps/ Welfare / Unemployment, stagnant low wages, business leaving the US - not coming back & Americans being told 'this is the new norm'...

Compared to the best economy is decades, worst unemployment in decades, lowest decades for blacks and Asians in recorded history, fewer Americans on Food Stamps/ Welfare / Unemployment, more jobs, more full-time jobs, raises, bonuses....a much better / improved America.

'Words' are nice...but results speaks volumes.

 

[Two Thumbs]

what country has people raiding schools for food?
what political nonsense do they follow?


the level of absolute stoopidity to think socialism will work, this time, is just amazing.

please don't breed

It works just fine in Europe, thanks for asking.

I'm not sure why you need to point to Venezuela when most of hteir problems are due to 10 years of economic war the US and the rest of the hemisphere has been waging against it.

the eu surrendered to Germany, they dictate what each country imports and exports and how much.

the lie about Ven being our fault, good lord.

 

[Mac1958]

Our conservative posters continue to start thread after thread pertaining to "socialism". And even though their exact definitions are fairly unclear, it's obvious they think that screaming SOCIALISM is, by itself, enough to win a debate.

As most of us can see, more and more people are becoming perfectly comfortable with the word - in part, no doubt, because the Right has completely over-used and diluted it.

How long before the Right realizes the term "socialism" no longer scares people?
.

When more Americans realize what Democrats are and what they want to turn the United States into is VENEZUELA more Democrats will begin to walk out on the new Democratic Socialist Party.

Pointing out that Liberals are Socialists isn't meant to 'SCARE' anyone ... It's meant to EDUCATE them.

What they actually want to turn America into is more like Canada or Germany or Australia. Do you see a distinction between those countries and Venezuela?

More and more people do, and part of the reason is that they've heard the term SOCIALISM so much from the Right, that they decided to see what the fuss was about.

After checking it out, they see the difference between real socialism and Democratic socialism. And they're not afraid. Ironically, they can thank the Right for that.
.

Compare 8 years under Obama's Democratic Socialism to less than 2 years under Trump.

Under Obama Americans endured Illegal spying on citizens, reporters, the media, US Senators, USSC JUSTICES ... and opposition candidates .... using a weapons IRS to silence legal opposition to re-elections ... Stagnant / poor economy ... High unemployment, high enrollment in Food Stamps/ Welfare / Unemployment, stagnant low wages, business leaving the US - not coming back & Americans being told 'this is the new norm'...

Compared to the best economy is decades, worst unemployment in decades, lowest decades for blacks and Asians in recorded history, fewer Americans on Food Stamps/ Welfare / Unemployment, more jobs, more full-time jobs, raises, bonuses....a much better / improved America.

'Words' are nice...but results speaks volumes.

Sure, results are important, you bet. But (a) the economy is cyclical and what exists today is not permanent, and (b) macroeconomics are not the top priority of many, many people.
.

 

[JoeB131]

Compare 8 years under Obama's Democratic Socialism to less than 2 years under Trump.

Okay, let's look at that.

Obama took unemployment from 10% to 5%.

Trumpenfuhrer took it from 5% to 4% in an economy that already has a worker shortage.

Obama took the Dow from 6000 to 19000. Trump took it to 24,000 where it has more or less levelled off.

Everyone expects a correction..

 

[JoeB131]

the eu surrendered to Germany, they dictate what each country imports and exports and how much.

the lie about Ven being our fault, good lord.

Did you miss the part where Dubya tried to stage a coup against Chavez in 2003?

I didn't.

Point is, the European nations have "Democratic Socialism", and they are more prosperous than the US is.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Or were you asleep during the whole 2008 thing?

The 2008 thing was not due to market forces of capitalism.

Market forces do not allow the issuance of untenable loans to unqualified individuals