Poor Fire Discipline

[HereWeGoAgain]

Shooting through a windshield isnt all that uncommon.

 

[SavannahMann]

This is a subject I have bemoaned many times.

Officer one. He performed a reload drill. Sort off. He ejected the empty mag. Then stopped to get the shots fired call out. Then loaded the full mag and cycled the slide. He shot his own car.

Officer Two. Fired with his fellow in the line of fire.

But how are they trained? They are trained to quick draw and fire fire fire. There are dozens if not hundreds of videos with people going through the current FBI standard qualification cycle for pistols. It is draw fire and fire some more.

Speed is what matters most of all.



This is a long video. But a good breakdown of what happened to everyone.

Paul points out that there was no shortage of guts. In this situation I have to agree. No shortage of guts. But. A serious deficiency in marksmanship.

It doesn’t matter how powerful your bullet may be. If it passes the baddie it is useless. A massive bullet that blows the guy apart is still a miss if it doesn’t hit.

 

[petro]

Shoot at the cops and the historical precedent says they will unload on you...

Solution?
Don't shoot at the police.

Simple.

 

[petro]

Or, he was shooting as the gunman fired at him right as he was shooting.

I'd have to find it, but there's actually a video out there where a cop in pursuit of someone actually shoots through his windshield to shoot the guy...

Here it is...
Saw it on Live PD before political correctness canceled the show...

 

[Canon Shooter]

Here it is...
Saw it on Live PD before political correctness canceled the show...

Whoa, that's not the one I was talking about!

The one I saw had a cop shooting through his windshield at one guy in a white pickup...

 

[odanny]

Truth be told, it's even worse than that. Many, many police academies across the nation now teach cadet cops to come up with a plan to kill anyone and everyone they meet while in uniform. Cadets are also taught to proceed forth under the assumption everyone they meet while on the job wants to kill them.

I can't believe that, maybe there are a handful of academies that follow such an authoritarian protocol, but they are not what is taught at most academies.

Honestly, that sounds almost as stupid as Canon Shooter.

Almost.

 

[SavannahMann]

I haven’t mentioned this in a while, but aircraft accident investigations are far more honest than police use of force investigations.

Look at the video, and again, the mistakes made by the officers are common. Common mistakes. In other words, people make them all the time. Officer number two who fired perilously close to his fellow officer as one example. Officer one firing into his own car.

Now, compare and contrast the reactions of those commenting, and investigating the incidents, with an investigation into a plane crash.

I’m going to use a recent crash, which was in the aviation news recently. The crash of an extremely experienced and well known pilot named Dale Snodgrass. Dale Snodgrass was a former Naval Aviator, with some 5,000 hours flying F-14 Tomcats. This guy was in reality, as good of a pilot as Tom Cruise in the Top Gun movies. Snort Snodgrass was a hell of a good pilot and extremely experienced.

Snodgrass died in an accident, and the report is brutal to read. It pulls no punches in saying that the crash was pilot error.

Final report on fatal Snodgrass accident released

The NTSB has released its findings in the July 24, 2021, crash that killed airshow performer and former U.S. Navy fighter pilot Dale "Snort" Snodgrass.

www.aopa.org

I mention that because if it had been a police use of force, the explanations of other cops to help their buddy look better would have glossed over the mistakes. And instead of learning lessons, the other cops would have said good old Dale went down due to bad luck.

But think about it. We all say the same things. Yes, it was a stressful situation, and people make mistakes. It’s the first time anyone ever shot at those cops, and they were dealing with a lot at the time.

We don’t say those things about pilots. We say they should have done this, or that. We say that the incident, or accident, was due to pilot error. We expect the pilot to handle the emergency properly the first time. We expect them to do it right. We don’t expect that of cops do we?

We tap dance around blaming the cops for their mistakes. We say they weren’t trained in infantry tactics. I wasn’t aware that the simple practice of not shooting at your buddy was an advanced infantry tactic. I thought being aware of your surroundings was expected when discharging your firearm.

Now, think about this. As fast as those cops were burning through their ammo, what if there had been even one more bad guy. The cops would have run out of bullets and been helpless before the baddie. But we can’t say that the cops fired too many rounds recklessly can we? That would be failing to support our law enforcement out there protecting, whatever it is they are protecting.

I’ve talked about this before. Aircraft accident investigations are brutally honest. They highlight every mistake. Even if the mistake didn’t affect the outcome, the investigators list it and say we need to do better. That’s why I respect aircraft accident investigations far more. They are brutally honest, and seek to milk every single lesson out of the incident possible. Even if it had no impact on the accident or incident.

So why is it we expect our pilots to be perfect in any emergency, but we accept mistakes and fatal failures in our cops? We don’t strive to improve the cops the way we do pilots and aviation?

Snort Snodgrass is dead. He died because he skipped steps in the preflight. He didn’t unlock the controls, and he didn’t do a control function check to make sure everything worked.

Now, I don’t know who Cop number one is in the video. But someone should be sitting down with him. “Bob, why the fuck did you stop your reload and get on the radio to call in the shots fired? Why not call it in after you reloaded? Jesus, you could have died while you were calling it in. If the Baddie had rushed you while your pistol was empty, and you’re jabbering on the radio, you couldn’t have done shit but throw the god damned pistol at him. Next time, finish your reload. Get your fucking weapon back into battery.”

We look at those videos, and we say the cops actions were justified. We ignore the mistakes, and failures, and we don’t seek to learn all we can from those incidents. We seek only to justify the actions of the cop. Right or wrong, we seek to say it was good. We can learn so much from an incident, and help the next cop survive, and perhaps save more than just his life.

This is one of those examples, where we can learn more than if the shooting was justified.



Now, I’ve said this before. From the moment the Suspect pulled the gun, I have no problem with the shooting. My problem is before that ever happens.

They had decided to arrest the guy before that moment. They had him contained in a well lit area. They could have taken him into custody at that moment, in the bathroom, and searched him finding the BB Gun. Preventing the shooting from ever taking place. Preventing the death and the risk to the fellow cops.

We can learn, and we can improve, and all it takes is the desire to do so, and the willingness to be brutally honest.