Power the U.S. With Solar Panels!

[Toddsterpatriot]

Imagine reducing solar radiation the planet receives by 1%… installing solar panels on 1% of the planet’s landmass has the same effect.

Imagine 1% of the planet bouncing 87% less energy back to space.

 

[Crick]

Criminittlies! We're DOOMED ! ! ! !

 

[toobfreak]

Electricity that is generated from PV cells isn’t work.

Wrong again, Ding, an inorganic photovoltaic cell is accomplishing work in the strictly pure sense in the production of generating electricity from incoming light much like an organic plant leaf accomplishes work chemically using sunlight to combine with soil and air to produce plant substance. The work is the result of where that sunlight goes in being diverted from its original path and nature not contributing as much local heat to where it landed, in this case, the work here being done by the production and flow of electrons from the silicon or sulfides and arsenides.

Work is defined as the transfer of energy by a force acting on an object as it is displaced; kinetic energy and potential energy.

All of that applies to the photo-electric process. There is a force acting and a transfer of energy thru the kinetic energy imparted by the photons.

Yes, there are line losses through all transmission lines. They aren’t considered to be work.

In the context of this thread they can be regarded as having accomplished work since that entails a conveyance of energy from one place to the other.

And they don’t heat the surface of the planet they heat the surrounding air.

Same difference. It all goes back into the heat pump that is the Earth.

 

[toobfreak]

You need to think in terms of an energy balance.

No I don't. You are getting lost in semantics instead of reducing this to the simplest form of physical process necessary. Don't make it overly-complicated trying to justify a desired conclusion instead of reaching one purely from the known facts.

 

[ding]

Criminittlies! We're DOOMED ! ! ! !

Science denier!

 

[ding]

No I don't. You are getting lost in semantics instead of reducing this to the simplest form of physical process necessary. Don't make it overly-complicated trying to justify a desired conclusion instead of reaching one purely from the known facts.

The simplest form says electricity converted into kinetic energy and potential energy don’t add much heat. It adds motion or stored energy. And must be accounted for in the energy balance.

 

[ding]

Wrong again, Ding, an inorganic photovoltaic cell is accomplishing work in the strictly pure sense in the production of generating electricity from incoming light much like an organic plant leaf accomplishes work chemically using sunlight to combine with soil and air to produce plant substance. The work is the result of where that sunlight goes in being diverted from its original path and nature not contributing as much local heat to where it landed, in this case, the work here being done by the production and flow of electrons from the silicon or sulfides and arsenides.

What’s your definition of work?

In physics work is defined as the transfer of energy by a force acting on an object as it is displaced; kinetic energy and potential energy.

 

[ding]

All of that applies to the photo-electric process. There is a force acting and a transfer of energy thru the kinetic energy imparted by the photons.

What is being displaced?

Work is defined as the transfer of energy by a force acting on an object as it is displaced.

 

[ding]

In the context of this thread they can be regarded as having accomplished work since that entails a conveyance of energy from one place to the other.

That’s not correct. Work requires a force to act on an object and to displace that object. When that object is said to be displaced it means the object that the force was applied to was put in motion.

 

[ding]

Same difference. It all goes back into the heat pump that is the Earth.

But it isn’t the same. Not even close.

 

[toobfreak]

What’s your definition of work?

What is being displaced?

That’s not correct.

But it isn’t the same.

Look, Ding, I'm not going to go back and forth with you ad nauseam. I think my explanations were quite clear and verifiable. I don't think you realize how narrow your definition of work is, so we will agree to disagree--- you think putting solar panels up somehow takes energy from the Sun and it gets lost somehow subtracted from the total net energy storage of the planet despite it reappearing elsewhere as electric power and that this power does not accomplish any work unless it moves or turns something, and I've explained that is all quite wrong and impossible. Your arguments are all theoretical while mine are practical, and I'll leave it at that rather than keep going around in circles.

 

[ding]

Look, Ding, I'm not going to go back and forth with you ad neaseum. I think my explanations were quite clear and verifiable. I don't think you realize how narrow your definition of work is, so we will agree to disagree--- you think putting solar panels up somehow takes energy from the Sun and it gets lost somehow subtracted from the total net energy storage of the planet despite it reappearing elsewhere as electric power and that this power does not accomplish any work unless it moves or turns something, and I've explained that is all quite wrong and impossible. Your arguments are all theoretical while mine are practical, and I'll leave it at that rather than keep going around in circles.

It’s not my definition. It’s literally how work is accounted for in the energy balance. You guys keep harping on the FLoT. Work performed is part of the energy balance of the FLoT. The energy required to perform work must be accounted for in the energy balance.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It’s not my definition. It’s literally how work is accounted for in the energy balance. You guys keep harping on the FLoT. Work performed is part of the energy balance of the FLoT. The energy required to perform work must be accounted for in the energy balance.

It's not even that complicated.
Bouncing back 5% of incoming energy to space is going to heat up the planet a lot more than
bouncing back 40%. Even if you pretend that none of the electricity generated by the panels
creates any waste heat.

You never said how much non-heating work is performed by a Tesla.

 

[toobfreak]

I must leave for a bit but I just asked Merriam-Webster to define WORK for me:

So now, even by a common, internet dictionary, we have determined that work can be:

• to perform a task
• an exertion
• to function according to a plan or design
• to provide a desired result or effect
• to set into operation or cause to produce
• to make use of
• to carry on an operation or perform a job
• to create a desired product
• a specific task achieving a desired result
• something that results from the use of a desired material
• the transference of energy or energy expended

I submit that converting sunlight into electricity and transmitting it to run, supply or operate electrical devices all meets the definition of work. Further, energy inefficiencies in the conversion or transference process CANNOT result in the total loss of that energy or the work done by it, but merely it getting and doing so at the originally intended point of application.

 

[ding]

I must leave for a bit but I just asked Merriam-Webster to define WORK for me:

View attachment 729864
View attachment 729865
View attachment 729866
View attachment 729867
View attachment 729868
So now, even by a common, internet dictionary, we have determined that work can be:

• to perform a task
• an exertion
• to function according to a plan or design
• to provide a desired result or effect
• to set into operation or cause to produce
• to make use of
• to carry on an operation or perform a job
• to create a desired product
• a specific task achieving a desired result
• something that results from the use of a desired material
• the transference of energy or energy expended

I submit that converting sunlight into electricity and transmitting it to run, supply or operate electrical devices all meets the definition of work. Further, energy inefficiencies in the conversion or transference process CANNOT result in the total loss of that energy or the work done by it, but merely it getting and doing so at the originally intended point of application.

Work (physics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Work | Definition, Formula, & Units

Work, in physics, measure of energy transfer that occurs when an object is moved over a distance by an external force at least part of which is applied in the direction of the displacement. The units in which work is expressed are the same as those for energy.

www.britannica.com

6.2: Work- The Scientific Definition

Work is the transfer of energy by a force acting on an object as it is displaced. The work \(W\) that a force \(F\) does on an object is the product of the magnitude \(F\) of the force, times the …

phys.libretexts.org

What It Means to Do Work​

The scientific definition of work differs in some ways from its everyday meaning. Certain things we think of as hard work, such as writing an exam or carrying a heavy load on level ground, are not work as defined by a scientist. The scientific definition of work reveals its relationship to energy—whenever work is done, energy is transferred. For work, in the scientific sense, to be done, a force must be exerted and there must be motion or displacement in the direction of the force.

 

[Crick]

I must leave for a bit but I just asked Merriam-Webster to define WORK for me:

View attachment 729864
View attachment 729865
View attachment 729866
View attachment 729867
View attachment 729868
So now, even by a common, internet dictionary, we have determined that work can be:

• to perform a task
• an exertion
• to function according to a plan or design
• to provide a desired result or effect
• to set into operation or cause to produce
• to make use of
• to carry on an operation or perform a job
• to create a desired product
• a specific task achieving a desired result
• something that results from the use of a desired material
• the transference of energy or energy expended

I submit that converting sunlight into electricity and transmitting it to run, supply or operate electrical devices all meets the definition of work. Further, energy inefficiencies in the conversion or transference process CANNOT result in the total loss of that energy or the work done by it, but merely it getting and doing so at the originally intended point of application.

If you'd like to see a long dictionary entry, look up "RUN". The movement of atoms and molecules, driven by energy supplied by the sun that take place in the photosynthetic process, qualifies as work.

 

[ding]

If you'd like to see a long dictionary entry, look up "RUN". The movement of atoms and molecules, driven by energy supplied by the sun that take place in the photosynthetic process, qualifies as work.

The scientific definition of work reveals its relationship to energy—whenever work is done, energy is transferred. For work, in the scientific sense, to be done, a force must be exerted and there must be motion or displacement in the direction of the force.

 

[Crick]

Apparently at current technology, I will show you a picture of how many solar panels it would take to power the U.S. That is both day and night. (With the stored energy for nighttime) The square in yellow shows the total amount of area in solar panels it would take to do it. Argue with that you naysayers.

View attachment 538042

We could place them all in Texas and raise the national average IQ at the same time.

 

[toobfreak]

Work (physics) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I guess you didn't read your own link! It says: "Work transfers energy from one place to another, or one form to another. The SI unit of work is the joule (J), the same unit as for energy."

Solar panels do work then, transferring energy from one place to another and from one form to the other! And if work is rated in Joules, 1 joule is = to 1 watt-second, and can also be converted to calories, horsepower, ergs, BTUs, foot-pounds, and many other units, all doing WORK.

 

[ding]

I guess you didn't read your own link! It says: "Work transfers energy from one place to another, or one form to another. The SI unit of work is the joule (J), the same unit as for energy."

Solar panels do work then, transferring energy from one place to another and from one form to the other! And if work is rated in Joules, 1 joule is = to 1 watt-second, and can also be converted to calories, horsepower, ergs, BTUs, foot-pounds, and many other units, all doing WORK.

Yes. The transmission. The generating of electricity from solar, no.

Does that mean you accept that work performed must be accounted for in the energy balance?

And that the conversion of energy into kinetic and potential energy don’t produce heat other than friction which is small in comparison to the work performed?