President Trump announces new tariffs: 25% for steel, 10% for aluminum

[Supposn]

Justinacolmena, refer to Wikipedia's article entitled “Import Certificates”.
Annual trade deficits are always net detrimental to their nations' GDPs and thus to some extent detrimental to their numbers of jobs.
For more than a half-century, regardless of how well or how poorly USA's economy has performed, (due to our chronic annual trade deficits) our GDP and numbers of jobs within each of those years was less than otherwise.

I'm opposed to USA current seeking a policy of pure free trade that entirely tolerates annual trade deficits of goods.

Although we all benefit from cheaper imported goods, annual trade deficits' net detriments to USA's economy is primarily to the financial net detriment of USA's aggregate employees, their dependents, and enterprises more dependent upon the financial conditions of those segments of USA's population.

[Employees are (statistically) USA entire bottom fifth, if not the entire bottom quarter of all USA income earners and they are (by a vast plurality the majority of all USA's income earners. The working poor and their dependents are among the poorest of USA's employed, or unemployed, or self-employed segment of USA's population.]

All this justifies USA adopting the unilateral trade policy described within Wikipedia's article entitled “Import Certificates”. The policy is more market rather than government driven; it's entire net costs are passed onto USA purchasers of imported goods. All direct net costs beyond governments fees that are (by law) limited to defraying federal direct expenditures due to the policy, serve as an indirect but effective subsidy of USA's exports at no additional cost to anyone.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[JoeB131]

I think Germany or Japan would be better models to learn from. They have consumers, trade surpluses, and lots of good paying manufacturing jobs.

Okay.

They also have -

Strong unions.
Socialized Medicine
High taxes on the rich.
Massive investment in education and infrastructure

All those liberal things you hate.

 

[JoeB131]

Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world, with similar First World attributes, and thus a good model for comparison.


If Automation was the sole reason for our manufacturing employment problems, then Germany should be in pretty much the same boat as we are.


Yet, they are not.


This disproves the claim that our problem is unsolvable due to technological issues.

Germany is also part of the EU, the biggest free trade operation in the world.

Germany succeeds because of Free Trade.

 

[Correll]

"Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters

Morons. If it was timed for the elections, he would have done it the first fucking week so that the effects would have been seen.

 

[Correll]

Explain what has changed in the world that means that letting other countries take our jobs is not a problem and does not hurt our citizens.

Especially as we can see how it has hurt our citizens.

The world is getting smaller and menial jobs will go to the cheapest place. We need to take advantage of our workers education and Tech ability, once the GOP allows cheaper training like Germany and other smart countries

Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords. Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying.


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?

Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.

1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.

We still have 3 2 six million technical jobs going begging because the GOP blocks spending money on training and education for workers, unlike Germany, and we also don't have other government support for industry, like subsidies, all to save the greedy idiot mega-rich GOP from paying their fair share in taxes, dupe. 35 years of slowly ruining the middle class and the country. Great job GOP.

1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

 

[Dragonlady]

Sure, just not in the historic way you're imagining. People are increasingly less needed for production.

It's time to stop being dependent on the local plant for your well being and time for individuals to be flexible and self sufficient.

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.

So what? What's your point?

It's proof that our current shit manufacturing employment is NOT a result of the level of automation technology.

It's not proof of anything, dope.
Our economy is magnitudes larger and more diverse than Germany and is at full employment.

Stop waiting for the local plant to take care of you and take care of yourself.

Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world, with similar First World attributes, and thus a good model for comparison.


If Automation was the sole reason for our manufacturing employment problems, then Germany should be in pretty much the same boat as we are.


Yet, they are not.


This disproves the claim that our problem is unsolvable due to technological issues.

Notice that the two most successful economies post WWII are Germany and Japan. Both had their heavy manufacturing bombed back to the Stone Age and had to rebuild post-war.

The US was the only major economy post-war that didn’t lose its heavy manufacturing in the war. So it had the oldest equipment.

Then there’s the education system. Yours has never been great, until you get to universities, but the conservatives has villified the public education system, teachers and curriculum and starved it for cash since Reagan was President.

Americans had better education before they had “choice”. With Charter schools, religious schools (many of which deny science), and home schooling, starvingbthevpublic system of cash, your rankings are sinking like a stone. There are 5 million jobs unfilled because Americans lack the skills to do them.

Last but certainly not least there’s “bottom line” management. The idea that corporations don’t have to be good citizens. Their only goal is profit. That Shareholders matter more than employees or the larger community. In other countries we value people more than profits.

 

[Correll]

The world is getting smaller and menial jobs will go to the cheapest place. We need to take advantage of our workers education and Tech ability, once the GOP allows cheaper training like Germany and other smart countries

Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords. Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying.


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?

Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.

1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.

You evidently that US workers are rated most productive only because they work more hours, right?
Of course not because you're an idiot.

I live in Republican territory & our school districts are run by REPUBLICANS. Look at that map you Trumpettes keep parading & look at all those red states. You brag about how many State legislatures Republicas control & how masny Republican governors there are. So reaklly, how rthe fuck can you make such an stupid ignorant comment?

Don't blame your failure in school on Democrats. Democrats want to properly fund schools & Republicans want to prioperly fund corporations.

Seems to me the teachers are Democrats at least the good ones LOL and the administrators are Republicans and gym teachers...

The Administrators are even more likely to be dems.


Do you even know any teachers?

 

[Correll]

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2. German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?

 

[Correll]

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.


Is it because they use antiquated manual labor production techniques?

Germany has TWICE the level of manufacturing employment we have.

So what? What's your point?

It's proof that our current shit manufacturing employment is NOT a result of the level of automation technology.

It's not proof of anything, dope.
Our economy is magnitudes larger and more diverse than Germany and is at full employment.

Stop waiting for the local plant to take care of you and take care of yourself.

Germany is the fourth largest economy in the world, with similar First World attributes, and thus a good model for comparison.


If Automation was the sole reason for our manufacturing employment problems, then Germany should be in pretty much the same boat as we are.


Yet, they are not.


This disproves the claim that our problem is unsolvable due to technological issues.

Notice that the two most successful economies post WWII are Germany and Japan. Both had their heavy manufacturing bombed back to the Stone Age and had to rebuild post-war.

The US was the only major economy post-war that didn’t lose its heavy manufacturing in the war. So it had the oldest equipment.

Then there’s the education system. Yours has never been great, until you get to universities, but the conservatives has villified the public education system, teachers and curriculum and starved it for cash since Reagan was President.

Americans had better education before they had “choice”. With Charter schools, religious schools (many of which deny science), and home schooling, starvingbthevpublic system of cash, your rankings are sinking like a stone. There are 5 million jobs unfilled because Americans lack the skills to do them.

Last but certainly not least there’s “bottom line” management. The idea that corporations don’t have to be good citizens. Their only goal is profit. That Shareholders matter more than employees or the larger community. In other countries we value people more than profits.

All valid points of discussion, but none of them address MY POINT, that just saying "automation" is NOT a reason to give up on Manufacturing.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

"Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters

Yeah, that's a fine reason to start a trade war. Are you okay with that?

Chickenhawk Economics

Are you afraid of competition? That's all a "trade war" is. Only those with contempt for America's potential would believe we'd lose it.

 

[william the wie]

"Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters

Yeah, that's a fine reason to start a trade war. Are you okay with that?

Chickenhawk Economics

Are you afraid of competition? That's all a "trade war" is. Only those with contempt for America's potential would believe we'd lose it.

The half-witted analysis of the ghost of Smoot-Hawley is the problem. The famous tariff was supposed to increase agricultural production during the Dust Bowl. In other words this tariff was supposed to make it rain. It Failed, surprise, surprise. That Smoot-Hawley was stupid is true but not as stupid as its use for a refutation of all tariffs.

 

[Indeependent]

"Trump's tariff threat may be timed for Pennsylvania U.S. House special election" - Reuters

Yeah, that's a fine reason to start a trade war. Are you okay with that?

Chickenhawk Economics

Are you afraid of competition? That's all a "trade war" is. Only those with contempt for America's potential would believe we'd lose it.

The half-witted analysis of the ghost of Smoot-Hawley is the problem. The famous tariff was supposed to increase agricultural production during the Dust Bowl. In other words this tariff was supposed to make it rain. It Failed, surprise, surprise. That Smoot-Hawley was stupid is true but not as stupid as its use for a refutation of all tariffs.

I’ve seen otherwise by people who claim the published numbers are doctored up by globalists.

 

[francoHFW]

The world is getting smaller and menial jobs will go to the cheapest place. We need to take advantage of our workers education and Tech ability, once the GOP allows cheaper training like Germany and other smart countries

Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords. Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying.


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?

Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.

1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.

We still have 3 2 six million technical jobs going begging because the GOP blocks spending money on training and education for workers, unlike Germany, and we also don't have other government support for industry, like subsidies, all to save the greedy idiot mega-rich GOP from paying their fair share in taxes, dupe. 35 years of slowly ruining the middle class and the country. Great job GOP.

1. We'v been throwing money at "training" for decades, it's become nothing but a buzzword, not a real policy.

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Bulshit idiot. Must save greedy idiot mega-rich brainwashers from paying their fair share, right dupe ? And of course we don't tax our giant corporations enough either , a subsidy in itself...

 

[francoHFW]

Germany's behavior, revealed in the WTO airbus ruling, shows that they don't believe that their workers are better, they think they need to subsidize their manufacturers to take American jobs.


Trump Right on Trade Predators

"
Richard Evans of British Aerospace explained: “Airbus is going to attack the Americans, including Boeing, until they bleed and scream.” And another executive said, “If Airbus has to give away planes, we will do it.”

When Europe’s taxpayers objected to the $26 billion in subsidies Airbus had gotten by 1990, German aerospace coordinator Erich Riedl was dismissive, “We don’t care about criticism from small-minded pencil-pushers.”

"



"smaller", "Menial", these are just meaningless buzzwords. Airplane and car manufacturing is not menial, nor low paying.


These nations desperately want these jobs. Why do you think that is?

Their workers are better, that's why they have more manufacturing jobs and we have 3 to 6 million techie manufacturing jobs going begging. The GOP makes us stupid in order to protect their precious greedy idiot mega-rich a-holes. Try staying on subject.

1. Their government obviously disagree, or they would not feel they needed to cheat in order to win.


2. Productivity of US workers is better than German. These Are the Most Productive Countries in the World

3. Which party dominates the Education Industry from kindergarten to post grad? HInt: It's not the republicans.

4. My post was completely on topic. Drop the stop rhetorical games.

You evidently that US workers are rated most productive only because they work more hours, right?
Of course not because you're an idiot.

I live in Republican territory & our school districts are run by REPUBLICANS. Look at that map you Trumpettes keep parading & look at all those red states. You brag about how many State legislatures Republicas control & how masny Republican governors there are. So reaklly, how rthe fuck can you make such an stupid ignorant comment?

Don't blame your failure in school on Democrats. Democrats want to properly fund schools & Republicans want to prioperly fund corporations.

Seems to me the teachers are Democrats at least the good ones LOL and the administrators are Republicans and gym teachers...

The Administrators are even more likely to be dems.


Do you even know any teachers?

I was a teacher for 10 years...

 

[busybee01]

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2. German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?

German and Japanese people are free to consume but there is no consumer culture as there is in the US. Both countries have higher savings rates than the US. The Japanese government has tried to encourage more consumption but has largely failed. China is essentially a third world country. Per capita income is closer to that of a third world country.

 

[sealybobo]

Burbon from McConnells state of Kentucky Harleys from ah Ryans home state of Wisconsin going down

Which in no way challenges my point.


We are never going to be able to fix our trade balance, if the rest of the world is able to just take advantage of US with no push back.


Their national governments would be remiss in their own responsibility to their own citizens, if they did NOT take advantage of a fool with his money, ie US.

I’m not going to say we have some trade imbalances but there’s a right way to fix them and a wrong way. Consequences.

You would need to first point out the specific flaw and then explain how you’re gonna fix it. Trump wants to do what? Sounds like he’s not that bright. Are we going to tariff the shoe industry and help those workers?

The flaw, imo, is hidden in the details of a million pages of trade laws and regulations and subsidizes that effectively fixes the trade "game" against US.

It is a broad problem and Trump is addressing it with a broad solution.


These other nations, they didn't accidentally build trade barriers. They know what they need to do to fix it.


This is on them.


Or they can blow up world trade and see how they like that.

You really believe trumps going to do that to business and for workers?

I think Trump is the only one that even claimed he would try.

Oh yes Trump has no problem saying something that isn't true.

I saw this and thought of you

On Inauguration Day, President Trump stood in front of the U.S. Capitol and vowed that his “America First” agenda would bring jobs back to the United States.

“We must protect our borders from the ravages of other countries making our products, stealing our companies and destroying our jobs,” he declared, adding: “We will follow two simple rules — buy American and hire American.”

Looking on from the front of the stage was Trump’s daughter Ivanka, the celebrity and fashion entrepreneur who would soon join him in the White House.

The first daughter’s cause would be improving the lives of working women, a theme she had developed at her clothing line. She also brought a direct link to the global economy the president was railing against — a connection that was playing out at that very moment on the Pacific coast.

As the Trumps stood on stage, a hulking container ship called the OOCL Ho Chi Minh City was pulling into the harbor of Long Beach, Calif., carrying around 500 pounds of foreign-made Ivanka Trump spandex-knit blouses.

Another 10 ships hauling Ivanka Trump-branded shoes, cardigans and leather handbags bound for the United States were floating in the north Pacific and Atlantic oceans and off the coasts of Malta, Malaysia, Japan, South Korea and Yemen.

Those global journeys — along with millions of pounds of Ivanka Trump products imported into the United States in more than 2,000 shipments since 2010 — illustrate how her business practices collide with some of the key principles she and her father have championed in the White House.

She talks about working women. Her father says “buy American.” We go inside Ivanka Inc.

 

[Wickerthing]

Yeah, and her father's line of Shirts and ties was more of the same as was his use of Chinese steel in his buildings. Remember that episode of Letterman when The Donald was touting his America First bullshit and Dave showed him his own clothing's labels with Made in China and Made in Bangladesh.

He was speechless and turned redder than he already is as the audience laughed at him. It was so revealing of who and what he is. A third-rate conman who lies through his teeth at every opportunity just so long as it means money in his pocket.

It's that part of him, the greed and the lying that makes him a prime target for being compromised by Putin. Something he perceives as threatening is being held over his yellow head and it's his outrageous ego that has kept him from admitting certain things and thereby reducing the food for blackmail. But I also think there's a very sizeable financial connection between the two.

I think it will be shown that massive money laundering through his many businesses took place over more than a decade. There simply is NO other explanation for the innaction and failure to confront putin's Russian Govt for the Meddling in our democracy.

If those on the right would be truly honest with themselves they would no doubt admit that No other President would be acting this way toward an enemy who continues to fuck with our elections and our sovereignty.

 

[francoHFW]

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2. German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?

German and Japanese people are free to consume but there is no consumer culture as there is in the US. Both countries have higher savings rates than the US. The Japanese government has tried to encourage more consumption but has largely failed. China is essentially a third world country. Per capita income is closer to that of a third world country.

In the 35 years since Reagan screwed up our tax rates to Pander to the riches, our rate of saving that's gone totally to hell, stupid. Under Bush it was negative. Before the corrupt 2008 bush World depression...

 

[Doc1]

2. So you admit that our trade deficits are caused by our trade "partners" subsidizing their industry. Good for you. Now explain why we should just let them fuck US like that, without any response.

Whomever told you the US did not subsidize industries was lying to you.

We have a trade deficit because the citizens of this country have the financial power to buy things from other countries. Just like the trade deficit you have with your grocery store.

1. I'm not sure what penny ante crap you are referring to, but if we are, the results show we are doing it very badly, and it does not change the fact that our trade policy needs drastic change.


2. German consumers aren't free to buy shit? Japanese consumers aren't free to buy shit? Chinese consumers aren't free to buy shit?

German and Japanese people are free to consume but there is no consumer culture as there is in the US. Both countries have higher savings rates than the US. The Japanese government has tried to encourage more consumption but has largely failed. China is essentially a third world country. Per capita income is closer to that of a third world country.

In the 35 years since Reagan screwed up our tax rates to Pander to the riches, our rate of saving that's gone totally to hell, stupid. Under Bush it was negative. Before the corrupt 2008 bush World depression...

Run along Karl, you lost.