Progressives always talk about mininum wage

[Vox]

We know what you are AGAINST, we have no idea what you are FOR.

Everyone on these boards knows what I am FOR (and therefore against)

I have posted this repeatedly, and the reactionaries ignore it.

I have said repeatedly I have voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state.
I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.
The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.
I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.
I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.
I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

2dA asked for it, got it, and snuck away.

because he did not believe it.
neither did anybody else

nice try

 

[Moonglow]

I am SO old I remember (back around 65 or so) when minimum wage was something that many of us LONGED to qualify for.

Way back when most of us were making 75 cents or a buck an hour and only those kids lucky enough to be working for a company that was also an interstate company got paid the princely sum of $1.25 an hour.

I remember. I used to mow lawns for 2 dollars. car hop at A&W 1.00 hr. I hit the big time in 1977 working for 5 bucks an hour as a mason labor on commercial jobs.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I have posted this repeatedly, and the reactionaries ignore it.

I have said repeatedly I have voted for Romney, and I worked very hard for him in my region and state.
I supported Afghanistan, opposed Iraq. Neo-conservatism (modern American imperialism) never has served America’s long-term interests.
The social programs need reform. The items of food need to exclude candy, steak, soda pop, chip, and so forth along with the tobacco and booze: those are not a right. The physically fit should be mandated to give ten hours a week to the city or the county in return for assistance. Those who aren't but can assist should be found adaptive work. Those who can't get off drugs should be forced to give up parental rights. And, phased in, no benefits for children out of wedlock.

I opposed the drug prescriptions program for seniors and No Child Left Behind as incredibly costly programs in both cases and an unwarranted intrusion into education that was best left in the hands of the school boards and the state education agencies.
I support the 2d Amendment's guarantee that I may own and bear arms.
I believe that abortion best be limited to cases of incest, rape, and the health and life of the mother.

I oppose absolute abortion, I oppose neo-conservative imperialism, I oppose birtherism, I oppose trutherism, I oppose Tentherism, and I oppose any suggestion that we are individuals only and not a part of a social compact. I oppose reactionary hatred.
I am a mainstream Republican and have been since the day I went to school with Jack (John) Ford, the president's son. I have served the party honorably since I was my state's GOP Young Republican Chair so many years ago and all through the following decades in many posts. I will continue opposing the reactionaries as I serve the best interests of the Republican Party.

2dA asked for it, got it, and snuck away.

because he did not believe it. neither did anybody else nice try

Vox, what frauds like you think is immaterial to the truth.

You are a reactionary, a danger to the nation, and I am mainstream GOP.

Is what it is.

 

[The2ndAmendment]

I'm simply keeping your answers on record on a word file for all future interactions.

 

[rightwinger]

I'm simply keeping your answers on record on a word file for all future interactions.

I keep your answers and I report them to the appropriate authorities

Keep an eye on those helicopters that fly over your house and that strange car that seems to be following you

 

[JakeStarkey]

I'm simply keeping your answers on record on a word file for all future interactions.

Wise. Even wiser to keep your own as I do.

 

[Mac1958]

.

Ah, the cushy life of a business owner.

You've busted your ass getting your business off the ground, you ran up all your credit cards and borrowed from friends and family to do so; you've worked 18 hours a day for a couple of years, scraping by while you chased your dream, worrying about paying your bills and feeding your family every single month, sleeping well only when absolutely exhausted because the business is keeping you up at night; dealing with competition every day, you had to hone your skills and improve your product every moment while juggling everything else; playing salesman and service provider and janitor and cook and security guard and receptionist and human resources director while you tried to create something strong enough to actually hire your first employee. Then, once you hired that one person, you had to worry about paying them and the associated costs of having an employee.

You didn't build that, of course, how DARE you even THINK such a thing, but it's been a real struggle. And you're getting there! Yeah! It's happening! After all this time!

Time goes by and you're able to hire more people. Some of the positions you have to fill require very little effort, virtually no education or training, but they exist at the bottom end of the business and you have to bring people on at minimum wage, even though those positions produce so little real value that you're probably losing money at $7.50 an hour. But ya gotta do it, that just goes with the territory. Okay.

Then, magically, that $7.50 an hour goes to $15.00 an hour, an absolutely arbitrary figure, and an amount on which you are clearly losing money every hour that person works. There are plenty of high school kids who would be thrilled to pad their pockets with $7.50 an hour and pretty much handle that job in their sleep, but other people with zero education, training, drive, motivation or functioning brain cells have convinced some other folks that they need to be able to support a family of four and send the kids to college by turning a lever every now and then or by finding a way to fit a certain amount of french fries into a little bag.

Oh, and by the way, be careful who you try to fire for not showing up for work or not doing their job.

You occasionally allow yourself to mentally calculate how much money you're over-paying these people for the value they create for your business, but after reflecting on how much sacrifice you put into just being able to GIVE them that job, you conclude that you'd rather not think about it. Smart, good call!

So don't complain. You're lucky, you must be a millionaire because you own a business, your life is easy, you didn't build that, so shut the fuck up and pay up, asshole.

Yep, that's the life baby, those business owners should be thanking those $15 an hour minimum wage workers who can barely fit the fries into the bag.

.

BWahhhhhh poor you. What about us, the taxpayers, who are in effect subsidizing the wages you pay to your minimum wage employees through EITC? Do we get any thanks for helping you with your payroll?

If you didn't want your business subject to the whims of minimum wage you should have gotten into a business that requires higher end employees. Did you seriously think the government would never raise minimum wage? Looks like a lack of foresight and personal responsibility on your part.

More whining asking the TAXPAYER to make up for low wages so that they can increase profit

Wages are a cost of doing business. Do they also whine when the rent goes up or their supplies increase in cost?

Hey guys, I'm with ya. Fuck employers, they have too much money. These guys are EVIL.

Those guys are fuckin' whiners. Taxpayers pay for roads n' stuff.

By the way, do you see any down side to doubling the minimum wage?

Any?

You both are both clearly experts in business economics, lay it on us.

Any down side?

.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

BWahhhhhh poor you. What about us, the taxpayers, who are in effect subsidizing the wages you pay to your minimum wage employees through EITC? Do we get any thanks for helping you with your payroll?

If you didn't want your business subject to the whims of minimum wage you should have gotten into a business that requires higher end employees. Did you seriously think the government would never raise minimum wage? Looks like a lack of foresight and personal responsibility on your part.

More whining asking the TAXPAYER to make up for low wages so that they can increase profit

Wages are a cost of doing business. Do they also whine when the rent goes up or their supplies increase in cost?

Hey guys, I'm with ya. Fuck employers, they have too much money. These guys are EVIL.

Those guys are fuckin' whiners. Taxpayers pay for roads n' stuff.

By the way, do you see any down side to doubling the minimum wage?

Any?

You both are both clearly experts in business economics, lay it on us.

Any down side?

.

I disagree. We should eliminate the minimum wage so that taxpayers will be saddled with paying more for EITC. That way the poor business owners will be able to get their labor cheaper. Why should businesses have to pay their labor when government can do it for them? LOL! They didn't get into business to send money out - it should only come it!

 

[Mac1958]

More whining asking the TAXPAYER to make up for low wages so that they can increase profit

Wages are a cost of doing business. Do they also whine when the rent goes up or their supplies increase in cost?

Hey guys, I'm with ya. Fuck employers, they have too much money. These guys are EVIL.

Those guys are fuckin' whiners. Taxpayers pay for roads n' stuff.

By the way, do you see any down side to doubling the minimum wage?

Any?

You both are both clearly experts in business economics, lay it on us.

Any down side?

.

I disagree. We should eliminate the minimum wage so that taxpayers will be saddled with paying more for EITC. That way the poor business owners will be able to get their labor cheaper. Why should businesses have to pay their labor when government can do it for them? LOL! They didn't get into business to send money out - it should only come it!

This is a fascinating argument, both you and Rightwinger appear to making it.

So it's a private businesses' fault if a private citizen needs government assistance.

Holy crap.

Well, ya got me. I don't know how to respond to a notion that simplistic, naive and shallow.

Anyway, regarding my question, I wasn't expecting a direct answer to my direct question, I never do.

.

 

[Redfish]

Hey guys, I'm with ya. Fuck employers, they have too much money. These guys are EVIL.

Those guys are fuckin' whiners. Taxpayers pay for roads n' stuff.

By the way, do you see any down side to doubling the minimum wage?

Any?

You both are both clearly experts in business economics, lay it on us.

Any down side?

.

I disagree. We should eliminate the minimum wage so that taxpayers will be saddled with paying more for EITC. That way the poor business owners will be able to get their labor cheaper. Why should businesses have to pay their labor when government can do it for them? LOL! They didn't get into business to send money out - it should only come it!

This is a fascinating argument, both you and Rightwinger appear to making it.

So it's a private businesses' fault if a private citizen needs government assistance.

Holy crap.

Well, ya got me. I don't know how to respond to a notion that simplistic, naive and shallow.

Anyway, regarding my question, I wasn't expecting a direct answer to my direct question, I never do.

.

right, in the liberal mind, anyone who works or owns a business is evil and must be punished. Because it just ain't FAIR that some people jobs and others don't

 

[thereisnospoon]

Because it doesn't keep up with inflation.

Yet, inflation is the problem, not the wage.

What is (massive) inflation caused by?

Printing Money.

What is printing money caused by?

Borrowing money.

What is borrowing money caused by?

Progressive Programs.

----------------------------------------------------------

So Progressive Programs demands that we borrow, which means we print mass money, which means we get mass inflation, which means wages are weaker; then Progressives try to fix the problem by more government intervention, raising the minimum wage, cause more unemployment, therefore more welfare programs, therefore more borrowing, more money printing, therefore more inflation, therefore even weaker wages.

Rinse and repeat!

The spending problems are because of the right wing trash. Reagan spent the nation into oblivion and W took the biggest surplus in US history, and turned it into the biggest deficit.

The GOP doesn't give a damn about fiscal responsibility.

Reagan? Are you fucking for real?
You libs just cannot accept responsibility for your actions.
This is OBAMA's WATCH..Get that through your liberal skull full of oatmeal.
At this time the third phase or renewal of Quantitative Easing is under way.
This is a borrowing program which essentially props up the stock and other financial markets.
This program which has been a long term part of the Obama administration, involves printing of currency which devalues the US Dollar.
The alarming part is that this is not the only reason for the wanton printing of currency or borrowing. How many times has the debt ceiling been increased? Three that I know of. But for the fact that we have a presidential administration that keeps pushing Congress to spend what it does not take in for the sake of some notion that deficit spending stimulates the economy, this should NEVER happen.
Don't come back with this Reagan bullshit. And no blaming Bush either.
Time to cut the apron strings.
Currency markets sell US Dollars in reaction to US federal borrowing. This has resulted in the US Dollar being held at historical lows vs other major currencies.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The key to minimum wage or not paying a living wage for your area is ....Who makes up the difference?

If you don't pay your workers a wage on which they can support themselves or their families, it is the taxpayer who steps in to pay housing subsidies, food stamps for medical care

THe business profits off of substandard wages and leaves it up to the taxpayer to make up the difference

One last time. Minimum wage jobs are not for 'support'. These are entry level low or no skill occupations. There is no magic wand that can be waived to simply 'give them more money'.
The low skill or entry level job pays what it pays based on the skill level, value of the job and ability to produce revenue for the employer. It also is based on the supply of workers that can perform the job.
In other words, minimum and low wage jobs pay rates are appropriate.
This argument for $15 per hour is going nowhere.
Should by some insane act this comes to fruition, one of two things will happen. One, the employer will simply raise his prices to cover the increased cost of labor, or two businesses will close. Name your poison.
Oh, you should know that there is no such thing as "making up the difference"..The difference of WHAT?
And another thing. The profit margins of most small businesses are very thin. Any radical increase in costs can be damaging.
I fully realize that the liberal view of the small business owner is the person that pays 'slave' wages while they live in mansions in gated country club communities.
And that the business owner has no right living so well while his employees allegedly struggle.
Hardly the point. The business owner is taking ALL of the risk. It is HIS money. The employees can come and go as they please. Many min wage workers, especially younger ones are unreliable, take excessive numbers of sick days steal, do shoddy work, etc....
Before you go off whining about the alleged plight of the fast food worker, perhaps you should get to know a few of the franchisees and see what they have to deal with in operating their businesses before shooting off at the keyboard.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Basically all debates about wages and compensation are really debates about WEALTH DISTRIBUTION.

Inflation can confuse the issue, of course, but it still comes down to how TODAYS PIE (I note it as today's pie because we all agree the pie change size over time) will be divided among the people.

Increasing wages have never caused inflation, fyi.

Increasing wages CANNOT cause inflation.

If you just stop for moment you realize that demanding (or even getting) higher wages does NOT CREATE new money.

ONLY BORROWING creates new money in our system, folks.


THINK about this, folks...because in most cases I am pretty certain that most of you believe that increasing wages CAUSES INFLATION.

Increased wages cannot do that, kiddies.

ONLY the banksters (or the government with the help of the banksters) can create NEW MONEY.

You are incorrect...
Easily explained.
If a business has it's labor costs arbitrarily increased, the business will increase the price of it's goods or services to maintain profit margin.
If there is a mass increase in the cost of labor, the same thing occurs on a wider scale.
The bottom line is the more things cost to produce, the more the business must charge for the product. Same goes for service. The more the business pays to provide the service, the higher the cost to the consumer to receive said service.
Your definition of "new money" is also off.
New money is the creation of wealth as business and individuals save, spend and invest.
Your 'new money' is new physical currency which is of course just part of the inflation process. The other is what is known as an 'over heating economy'...An economy that grows out of balance. One way to fight the inflation created by a robust economy is to raise interest rates. This slows the rate of borrowing which calms inflation.
There is no 'free money'. The idea that business can simply 'pay them more' is absurd.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Hey guys, I'm with ya. Fuck employers, they have too much money. These guys are EVIL.

Those guys are fuckin' whiners. Taxpayers pay for roads n' stuff.

By the way, do you see any down side to doubling the minimum wage?

Any?

You both are both clearly experts in business economics, lay it on us.

Any down side?

.

I disagree. We should eliminate the minimum wage so that taxpayers will be saddled with paying more for EITC. That way the poor business owners will be able to get their labor cheaper. Why should businesses have to pay their labor when government can do it for them? LOL! They didn't get into business to send money out - it should only come it!

This is a fascinating argument, both you and Rightwinger appear to making it.

So it's a private businesses' fault if a private citizen needs government assistance.

Holy crap.

How did you reach that conclusion?

Well, ya got me. I don't know how to respond to a notion that simplistic, naive and shallow.

Anyway, regarding my question, I wasn't expecting a direct answer to my direct question, I never do.

.

OK.

 

[thereisnospoon]

.

When I was a high school kid making minimum wage at Kentucky Fried Chicken (long before it was known as KFC), it was a foregone conclusion that I would constantly be bettering myself and making myself more valuable in the job marketplace (through college loans, grants, scholarships and added training). That minimum wage job was just to get me from one step in life to the next.

Not once did it ever occur to me that the job at KFC was anything other than temporary, a brief means to an end. My family didn't have any money, but my mom always placed the highest standards and expectations on us, and that carried me into college and beyond. The KFC job? Yuck.

Crazy, huh? Man, I must have been living on Mars. How mean I must be.

.

You got a higher minimum wage then than they do now, adjusted for inflation.

Go to Washington and file a complaint with those responsible for creating inflation.
IN any event, what difference does it make?
Everyone is subject to the same rate of inflation.
Jacking up wages without regard to the ability of the marketplace to absorb the higher labor costs creates inflation.

 

[rightwinger]

The key to minimum wage or not paying a living wage for your area is ....Who makes up the difference?

If you don't pay your workers a wage on which they can support themselves or their families, it is the taxpayer who steps in to pay housing subsidies, food stamps for medical care

THe business profits off of substandard wages and leaves it up to the taxpayer to make up the difference

One last time. Minimum wage jobs are not for 'support'. These are entry level low or no skill occupations. There is no magic wand that can be waived to simply 'give them more money'.
The low skill or entry level job pays what it pays based on the skill level, value of the job and ability to produce revenue for the employer. It also is based on the supply of workers that can perform the job.
In other words, minimum and low wage jobs pay rates are appropriate.
This argument for $15 per hour is going nowhere.
Should by some insane act this comes to fruition, one of two things will happen. One, the employer will simply raise his prices to cover the increased cost of labor, or two businesses will close. Name your poison.
Oh, you should know that there is no such thing as "making up the difference"..The difference of WHAT?
And another thing. The profit margins of most small businesses are very thin. Any radical increase in costs can be damaging.
I fully realize that the liberal view of the small business owner is the person that pays 'slave' wages while they live in mansions in gated country club communities.
And that the business owner has no right living so well while his employees allegedly struggle.
Hardly the point. The business owner is taking ALL of the risk. It is HIS money. The employees can come and go as they please. Many min wage workers, especially younger ones are unreliable, take excessive numbers of sick days steal, do shoddy work, etc....
Before you go off whining about the alleged plight of the fast food worker, perhaps you should get to know a few of the franchisees and see what they have to deal with in operating their businesses before shooting off at the keyboard.

A business owner is able to get workers at substandard rates because the taxpayer is subsidizing his employees. He's has no right to a profit at taxpayers expense
The claims of going out of business and raging inflation if minimum wages are raised never come to fruition. If all your competition also has to raise their wages you still have a level playing field

 

[thereisnospoon]

Inflation is never healthy.

Yes it is you economic imbecile. Inflation encourages investment and spending by consumers and business and it helps businesses keep the liquidity they need to pay employees and buy inventory. Deflation kills investment and spending and creates liquidity crises for business. Its BAD when a business loses revenues while its debts remain the same, and its BAD for mortgagees when their incomes go down while their debts remain the same. That should be obvious.

Who said anything about 'deflation'...?
Anyway, you are in fact partly correct.
The kind of inflation you describe above is the natural progression of economic growth. Controlled growth through the marketplace.
Artificial increases in the cost of labor or when an outside influence interferes with the marketplace create hyper inflation.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The key to minimum wage or not paying a living wage for your area is ....Who makes up the difference?

If you don't pay your workers a wage on which they can support themselves or their families, it is the taxpayer who steps in to pay housing subsidies, food stamps for medical care

THe business profits off of substandard wages and leaves it up to the taxpayer to make up the difference

One last time. Minimum wage jobs are not for 'support'. These are entry level low or no skill occupations. There is no magic wand that can be waived to simply 'give them more money'.
The low skill or entry level job pays what it pays based on the skill level, value of the job and ability to produce revenue for the employer. It also is based on the supply of workers that can perform the job.
In other words, minimum and low wage jobs pay rates are appropriate.
This argument for $15 per hour is going nowhere.
Should by some insane act this comes to fruition, one of two things will happen. One, the employer will simply raise his prices to cover the increased cost of labor, or two businesses will close. Name your poison.
Oh, you should know that there is no such thing as "making up the difference"..The difference of WHAT?
And another thing. The profit margins of most small businesses are very thin. Any radical increase in costs can be damaging.
I fully realize that the liberal view of the small business owner is the person that pays 'slave' wages while they live in mansions in gated country club communities.
And that the business owner has no right living so well while his employees allegedly struggle.
Hardly the point. The business owner is taking ALL of the risk. It is HIS money. The employees can come and go as they please. Many min wage workers, especially younger ones are unreliable, take excessive numbers of sick days steal, do shoddy work, etc....
Before you go off whining about the alleged plight of the fast food worker, perhaps you should get to know a few of the franchisees and see what they have to deal with in operating their businesses before shooting off at the keyboard.

A business owner is able to get workers at substandard rates because the taxpayer is subsidizing his employees. He's has no right to a profit at taxpayers expense
The claims of going out of business and raging inflation if minimum wages are raised never come to fruition. If all your competition also has to raise their wages you still have a level playing field

THIS

Righties don't actually need empirical data. If its a nice toy theory that they think would be on a white board in "Econ 101" - it must be true, data be damned.

 

[rightwinger]

Your low wages are a drain on our society

Why should the taxpayer subsidize your profits?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Then Obama blew W out of the water turning $300 billion deficits into $1.5 trillion deficits.

BTW, if Clinton ran a "surplus" then why did the national debt go up every year he was in office?

Same reason the GOP National Debt went up an average of $650 billion per year while Bush claimed an average deficit of $300 billion per year.

Yes, it is. There was no surplus. They ... wait for it ... lied.

There never was a budget surplus during the Clinton admin. There was a whole bunch of creative accounting though.