Prop 8 in California

[Bass v 2.0]

I think Straight & Gay Couples should have the exact same legal rights, if it is States that decide on Legality of Marriage or Federal on the legality of marriage I support exactly the same legal marriage rights for gay & straight couples in marriage. If religion is in charge of marriage and not the government, then I support equal rights for gay & straight couples to practice there religious beliefs on marriage.

Its not about rights for God's sake, that point is moot, its about not defiling and changing the institution of marriage to suit people's sexual lifestyle.

 

[acludem]

I lose patience with the "religious freedom" argument. Churches don't have to marry any straight couple they don't want to. Why would they be forced to marry gay couples? Don't believe me? Go try and get married in the Catholic Church if you are Lutheran.

Allowing gay couples to have a government issued marriage license has absolutely nothing to do with religious freedom. The religious freedom argument is a smokescreen used by churches who just don't like homosexuality. At least Fred Phelps is honest in his hatred for gay folks.

The reason the term "marriage" is an issue is because the term has legal ramifications. For example on your tax forms you can check "Married filing jointly" if you have a marriage license. You can't if you are gay. Married couples automatically qualify for benefits on a spouse's employer health insurance in many cases, gay folks can't get those benefits. Married couples have certain rights to children, property, etc. on the death of a spouse, gay couples don't enjoy all those rights, even in states with civil unions.

That's why marriage is so important to these folks. They want the same legal protections that straight married couples get and are willing to take the same responsibilities. This is a civil rights issue.

Where's the problem? How does this in any way diminish straight marriage?

 

[DiveCon]

I lose patience with the "religious freedom" argument. Churches don't have to marry any straight couple they don't want to. Why would they be forced to marry gay couples? Don't believe me? Go try and get married in the Catholic Church if you are Lutheran.

Allowing gay couples to have a government issued marriage license has absolutely nothing to do with religious freedom. The religious freedom argument is a smokescreen used by churches who just don't like homosexuality. At least Fred Phelps is honest in his hatred for gay folks.

The reason the term "marriage" is an issue is because the term has legal ramifications. For example on your tax forms you can check "Married filing jointly" if you have a marriage license. You can't if you are gay. Married couples automatically qualify for benefits on a spouse's employer health insurance in many cases, gay folks can't get those benefits. Married couples have certain rights to children, property, etc. on the death of a spouse, gay couples don't enjoy all those rights, even in states with civil unions.

That's why marriage is so important to these folks. They want the same legal protections that straight married couples get and are willing to take the same responsibilities. This is a civil rights issue.

Where's the problem? How does this in any way diminish straight marriage?

did you hear about the photographer that got sued because they wouldnt photograph a gay wedding?
dont say it wouldnt happen

 

[acludem]

I just read an NPR story that includes this photography place...it's actually very interesting and very unbiased. You can read it here: Gay Rights, Religious Liberties: A Three-Act Story : NPR

This is a tough place. I don't think businesses should be able to refused to serve people because they are gay. I also think it's really stupid to refuse paying customers because they are gay. If you are a public business, you have to serve the public. They don't have to participate in the ceremony, just photograph it. They don't have to use any of the photos in their advertising. It's insane to me for any business person to refuse a paying customer because they are gay. Do you think photographers ought to be able to refuse to photograph an interracial marriage ceremony because they don't believe in that? How about refusing Jewish, Muslim, or Catholic ceremonies because they are evangelical Protestants?

 

[DiveCon]

I just read an NPR story that includes this photography place...it's actually very interesting and very unbiased. You can read it here: Gay Rights, Religious Liberties: A Three-Act Story : NPR

This is a tough place. I don't think businesses should be able to refused to serve people because they are gay. I also think it's really stupid to refuse paying customers because they are gay. If you are a public business, you have to serve the public. They don't have to participate in the ceremony, just photograph it. They don't have to use any of the photos in their advertising. It's insane to me for any business person to refuse a paying customer because they are gay. Do you think photographers ought to be able to refuse to photograph an interracial marriage ceremony because they don't believe in that? How about refusing Jewish, Muslim, or Catholic ceremonies because they are evangelical Protestants?

so they have no rights at all?
nice

 

[chloe]

churches don't have to marry gays if they don't want to. Unitarian, Unity, Religious Science, Inner Light, want to marry gays so I suppose gays don't to need to worry about being rejected there are plenty of churches who will marry them.

 

[DiveCon]

churches don't have to marry gays if they don't want to. Unitarian, Unity, Religious Science, Inner Light, want to marry gays so I suppose gays don't to need to worry about being rejected there are plenty of churches who will marry them.

just wait till those law suits start flying

 

[Sunni Man]

churches don't have to marry gays if they don't want to. Unitarian, Unity, Religious Science, Inner Light, want to marry gays so I suppose gays don't to need to worry about being rejected there are plenty of churches who will marry them.

Let all of these fake churches marry the homos and give them fake marriage licenses!!!

 

[Ocean56]

churches don't have to marry gays if they don't want to. Unitarian, Unity, Religious Science, Inner Light, want to marry gays so I suppose gays don't to need to worry about being rejected there are plenty of churches who will marry them.

The issue is the state declaring gay marriage invalid, not which churches will choose to perform marriages for gay couples.

And HOW does gay marriage directly affect YOUR life, exactly? I have yet to see ONE intelligent answer from religionist zealots to this question.

 

[Ocean56]

Not only that.. but if it were ever to go through..you would only see more hate crimes, more violence, more separation.

People will be pissed that their vote is silenced by 30 million appeals...

All this controversy just spurs more hate. Those against prop 8 should realize it will only cause more hate and separation.

And yes, back to the No on 8 supporters who are being violent (not all of them)...when someone answers back with violence...don't be screaming "Waaahhh Hate Crime!" when someone bashes your face in for rioting on the wrong street..

Oh PLEASE. It was religious HATRED and anti-gay BIGOTRY that prompted idiots to put this ban on the ballot in CA in the first place, to DISCRIMINATE against anyone who happened to be gay.

By the way, I am 100% straight, and would have voted NO on that idiotic "Plop 8." And NO, the "l" in plop was NOT a typo.

 

[Ocean56]

I lose patience with the "religious freedom" argument. Churches don't have to marry any straight couple they don't want to. Why would they be forced to marry gay couples? Don't believe me? Go try and get married in the Catholic Church if you are Lutheran.

Allowing gay couples to have a government issued marriage license has absolutely nothing to do with religious freedom. The religious freedom argument is a smokescreen used by churches who just don't like homosexuality. At least Fred Phelps is honest in his hatred for gay folks.

The reason the term "marriage" is an issue is because the term has legal ramifications. For example on your tax forms you can check "Married filing jointly" if you have a marriage license. You can't if you are gay. Married couples automatically qualify for benefits on a spouse's employer health insurance in many cases, gay folks can't get those benefits. Married couples have certain rights to children, property, etc. on the death of a spouse, gay couples don't enjoy all those rights, even in states with civil unions.

That's why marriage is so important to these folks. They want the same legal protections that straight married couples get and are willing to take the same responsibilities. This is a civil rights issue.

Where's the problem? How does this in any way diminish straight marriage?

Great questions, which the anti-gays have so far been incapable of answering. Gay marriage DOESN'T diminish straight marriage in ANY way. The anti-gays just CHOOSE to get ticked off about it, which doesn't count as being personally or financially affected.

 

[Ocean56]

At a practical level, have to say I don't see my life, or anyone else's, impacted much because two gay guys in West Hollywood decide to get married to each other.

Exactly, because neither your life nor mine is affected by anyone who is gay choosing to be married. It's a fact that the anti-gay supporters of Plop 8 are too intellectually challenged to accept.

 

[Sunni Man]

Gays are sick, degenerate, perverts. No normal person wants to be around them.

Prop 8 proved this as a fact.

 

[CherryTheTart]

Being Gay is a common variation of human sexuality. Anybody who wastes this much time and energy on depriving others of their civil rights because of what s/he imagines others are doing with their Things is a pervert IMO. Homophobia is a paraphilia akin to peeking. And just like peeking homophobia progesses to violence toward others. I think we will live to see the day when the perversion you exhibit here will make it to the DSM V.

Gays are sick, degenerate, perverts. No normal person wants to be around them.

Prop 8 proved this as a fact.

 

[Sunni Man]

Being Gay is a common variation of human sexuality.

Rape and pedophilia are also a common variation of human sexuality. But that doesn't mean that society has to accept them as Ok or somehow normal.

 

[Sunni Man]

Homophobia is a paraphilia akin to peeking. And just like peeking homophobia progesses to violence .

Please provide evidence

Thank you

 

[chloe]

Gays are sick, degenerate, perverts. No normal person wants to be around them.

Prop 8 proved this as a fact.

Provide your evidence of All the statements you make about gays, or acknowledge it is only your personal opinion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/61448-sunni-on-homosexuality.html

 

[Sunni Man]

Provide your evidence of All the statements you make about gays, or acknowledge it is only your personal opinion.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/health-and-lifestyle/61448-sunni-on-homosexuality.html

Didn't I ask you first??

Yet, you provided NO evidence.

Why should I waste my time?

 

[chloe]

Didn't I ask you first??

Yet, you provided NO evidence.

Why should I waste my time?

I gave an explanation for my opinon, come on why are you afraid to post on that thread?

 

[Sunni Man]

When the people of California where allowed their Constitional right to vote.

They overwhelmingly voted against homo marriage.

That's a fact!!!! (not an opinion)