Proposal: Federalism Amendment to COTUS

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The US collects 26 percent of GDP in taxes.

Gina collects 20 percent.

Japan collects a whopping 35.9 percent!

You are still off point.

We have 1/4 the population of China and spend TWICE what they spend.

 

[g5000]

So is our GDP.

Do you think that might have something to do with how much we collect in revenues???

Hmmm...

Yes. What's your point?

See post 39.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

If the states can secede can we bring out the Confederate Flags?

 

[g5000]

The US collects 26 percent of GDP in taxes.

Gina collects 20 percent.

Japan collects a whopping 35.9 percent!

You are still off point.

We have 1/4 the population of China and spend TWICE what they spend.

Gosh. Maybe you should move there! They are clearly better off.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Then it is dead in the water.

Which is why we need a fucking war.


It's about time anyway.

 

[g5000]

I would fully support the repeal of the 16th Amendment if it was replaced with a Fair Tax Amendment.

With ZERO deductions or exemptions.

 

[g5000]

Then it is dead in the water.

Which is why we need a fucking war.


It's about time anyway.

Shhhhh! Trump's DHS is listening.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Gosh. Maybe you should move there! They are clearly better off.

Maybe our irresponsible fucking government could start making sound financial decisions for the future, instead of SPENDING like a trust fund kid.

 

[g5000]

Gosh. Maybe you should move there! They are clearly better off.

Maybe our irresponsible fucking government could start making sound financial decisions for the future, instead of SPENDING like a trust fund kid.

Hey, for the past several years I have been propounding a plan which would trim $1.4 trillion of annual spending from the budget.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I would fully support the repeal of the 16th Amendment if it was replaced with a Fair Tax Amendment.

With ZERO deductions or exemptions.

Only if we also repeal the 19th Amendment.


Today is my 16th wedding anniversary, so I am giving my wife all sorts of shit (playing of course).

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So basically you are wanting to dissolve the United States and become more of a American Union like the EU?

Nope. Their purpose was purely monetary. They have a week-ass common defense policy, but it is fucking meaningless.

So it is not an exact copy of the EU, but you are not looking for a United country consisting of 50 units that have joined together, but you are looking for a union that consist of 50 sovereign nations that have joined together for security and maybe some financial gains.

I think that may be the way to go but I would say it should be 5 maybe 6 sovereign countries that are joining a Union. Most states are too small to survive on their own. But if they grouped together with like minded close states then they would have a greater chance to survive.

Let's face it, when the US was founded even the northern and southern states still had things in common. That is really no longer the case. I am not sure the states have enough common values and views for the US to survive in its current form that much longer anyhow.

 

[JoeMoma]

Maybe we should bring back the articles of confederation.

 

[g5000]

Maybe we should bring back the articles of confederation.

It was working so well!

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

So it is not an exact copy of the EU, but you are not looking for a United country consisting of 50 units that have joined together, but you are looking for a union that consist of 50 sovereign nations that have joined together for security and maybe some financial gains.

I think that may be the way to go but I would say it should be 5 maybe 6 sovereign countries that are joining a Union. Most states are too small to survive on their own. But if they grouped together with like minded close states then they would have a greater chance to survive.

Let's face it, when the US was founded even the northern and southern states still had things in common. That is really no longer the case. I am not sure the states have enough common values and views for the US to survive in its current form that much longer anyhow.

That's the problem. On the coasts and in big cities, everyone wants to live the non-independent, collective lifestyle. They have less respect for individual freedom. Then, there are States overrun by theocratic statists that don't value individual liberty either. The result of a breakup would likely be the same, just smaller groups with the same differences and same authoritarian problems. If originalist liberals like me could own Texas or Montana, or some other place, to hell with what happens to the other 49.

 

[MPS777]

I believe federal funds to build and maintain highways (which can be any roads that connect states) are appropriated by authorization from the Commerce Clause. It’s been that way since 1907. So my question is this, if you constrict the commerce clause to “only the power to prohibit State restrictions on interstate trade; and in no event shall this power or any other power in the Constitution be construed to give the Congress plenary legislative or police power”; would congress still have the power to appropriate funds for highways at all?

Good question. I appreciate your willingness to actually give it some thought. Bravo.

Yes, congress would still have the power to appropriate highway funds. Aritcle I, Section 8, Clause 1:

"The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Specifically, highways provide for the common defense. Eisenhower saw the need after seeing the autobahn in Germany. Military forces must have interstate highways to move anywhere in the U.S. to meet any threat or attempted invasion.

You can get there several other ways as well.

Madison was against using the first paragraph in Article 1 Section 8 as a spending power. That specifically included justifying road building under “common defense”. He vetoed a bill that would have done that, and recommended congress pass a constitutional amendment to authorize it first. His words on the matter were:

“To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust."
http://www.constitution.org/jm/18170303_veto.htm
James Madison and Federal Power - Bill of Rights Institute

So you may have a tough time getting it at the same time as your “Section 11: Original Understanding”. Maybe you could justify it with the Postal Clause, but I’d recommend separately enumerating it. The founders were afraid that justifying spending because of “common defense” (in the vague sense) would be a slippery slope, so they got more specific in the clauses that follow.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Madison was against using the first paragraph in Article 1 Section 8 as a spending power. That specifically included justifying road building under “common defense”. He vetoed a bill that would have done that, and recommended congress pass a constitutional amendment to authorize it first. His words on the matter were:
“To refer the power in question to the clause "to provide for common defense and general welfare" would be contrary to the established and consistent rules of interpretation, as rendering the special and careful enumeration of powers which follow the clause nugatory and improper. Such a view of the Constitution would have the effect of giving to Congress a general power of legislation instead of the defined and limited one hitherto understood to belong to them, the terms "common defense and general welfare" embracing every object and act within the purview of a legislative trust.
http://www.constitution.org/jm/18170303_veto.htm
James Madison and Federal Power - Bill of Rights Institute

So you may have a tough time getting it at the same time as your “Section 11: Original Understanding”. Maybe you could justify it with the Postal Clause, but I’d recommend separately enumerating it. The founders were afraid that justifying spending because of “common defense” (in the vague sense) would be a slippery slope, so they got more specific in the clauses that follow.

Very sound reasoning.

Madison was right. We got way of track on the "general welfare" part. FDR and the gang used that to justify their unadulterated socialist state.

 

[TheTechnologist]

Section 1: Secession. Any State or Indian tribe may, by an act of its legislature, secede from the United States.

Section 2: Nature of the Union. From the perspective of the United States, the States are sovereign and are the parties to the Constitution, which is a compact among the States.

Section 3: Nullification.

(a) When a national majority the States of the United States declares a decision by any federal court to be inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution, the said decision shall thereby be negated and precedent restored. The States shall convey their declarations to the U.S. Solicitor General, who in turn will notify the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court to take appropriate measures consistent with this Section.

(b) Any federal treaty, executive agreement, statute, regulation, administrative ruling, executive order, or the like may be nullified by a national majority of the States, pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 3(a).

(c) Any person holding an office of the United States government may be removed from office by a national majority of the States, pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 3(a).

Section 4: Interstate Highway Funds. The United States is prohibited from placing any conditions on any grants of interstate highway funds not directly and reasonably related to the purpose of establishing interstate transportation.

Section 5: Free Market. An internal free market, being necessary to the prosperity of a national economy, the interstate commerce clause set forth in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 shall henceforth be construed, with respect to commerce among the states, to give Congress only the power to prohibit State restrictions on interstate trade; and in no event shall this power or any other power in the Constitution be construed to give the Congress plenary legislative or police power. This Section is subject to the limits set forth in Section 1.

Section 6: Income Tax. The 16th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby immediately repealed, and any person convicted of the crime of federal tax evasion, whether currently in prison or not, whether currently living or not, whether also convicted of other crimes or not, is hereby pardoned.

Section 7: Election of Senators. The 17th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby immediately repealed.

Section 8: State Pardon Power. The governor of each State shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons to any individual convicted of any crime by any federal court who (a) is currently imprisoned within the territory of said State; (b) is a current or previous resident of said State; or (c) committed the acts serving as the basis for said conviction while present in said State.

Section 9: Federal Judiciary. The judicial power of the United States includes the power to nullify (a) any federal law or policy (1) that is not expressly authorized by this Constitution, or (2) that prohibits or unreasonably regulates of a rightful exercise of liberty; and (b) any state law expressly prohibited by a provision of this Constitution or by a constitutional federal statute; but does not include the general power to nullify or review other state laws. This Section is subject to the limits set forth in Section 1.

Section 10: Posse Comitatus. No member of the United States' armed forces or any other armed federal official, employee or agent may be present or bear arms in the territory of a State without the express written permission of the governor of said State. No federal military installation may be placed in the territory of a State without the express written permission of the governor of said State.

Section 11: Original Understanding. The words of this article, and any other provision of this Constitution, shall be interpreted according to their public meaning at the time of their enactment.

I didn't think I was going to reply to this, but this was written by a fucking retard.

Must have been a re-pube-licker or one of them Oregon National Park invading Militia faggots.

Section 1: You can't unilaterally do what takes an entire Union to agree upon. Or rather, the PEOPLE of the United States agree on which states are in the Union, and which are not.

And NOT the PEOPLE of one state.

Section 2: The states being "sovereign" is already fundamentally anti-American. The People are sovereign. The Constitution was ratified by the PEOPLE of the United States, not the STATES of the United States.

Learn the fucking difference you goddamned Hillbilly.

Section 3: You can't nullify laws that you are required to follow. Principally because the Union represents the people, not a state.

Section 4: Then fund your own damn highways.

Section 5: This is poorly worded trash was it written by a god damn Arkansawyer? What does it even try to accomplish with these fake non-legally binding words like "Freemarket" bullshit?

Section 6: Fuck your repeal, the US needs income for its government. How about they tax that shit can you poop in and clean out when cooking your pot of beans for the night?

Section 7: Fuck you, I want popularly elected Senators, not god damn Senators chosen by some state legislature. You anti-Democratic fuck

Section 8: This is the most retarded, a sovereign cannot pardon the criminal of another sovereign. So even if Section 2 were enacted, this section is double-fucking-retard.

Section 9: This just is horse shit rehashing what the Bill of Rights already says.

Section 10: This is nonsensical, whose permission does the US military need to stop the Russians invading Texas if the Texas governor is on the toilet eating a cheeseburger and the phones are out?

Section 11: This goes against the very concept of LAW which is that LAW applies to the people living. Not some fucking dead people 200 years ago and their "original intent".

Who the fuck comes up with this dumb shit? Hillbillies?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Who the fuck comes up with this dumb shit? Hillbillies?

Georgetown Constitutional Law Professors

 

[danielpalos]

just right wing fantasy practice? y'all can't even repeal the drug war.

 

[jillian]

Section 1: Secession. Any State or Indian tribe may, by an act of its legislature, secede from the United States.

Section 2: Nature of the Union. From the perspective of the United States, the States are sovereign and are the parties to the Constitution, which is a compact among the States.

Section 3: Nullification.

(a) When a national majority the States of the United States declares a decision by any federal court to be inconsistent with the U.S. Constitution, the said decision shall thereby be negated and precedent restored. The States shall convey their declarations to the U.S. Solicitor General, who in turn will notify the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court to take appropriate measures consistent with this Section.

(b) Any federal treaty, executive agreement, statute, regulation, administrative ruling, executive order, or the like may be nullified by a national majority of the States, pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 3(a).

(c) Any person holding an office of the United States government may be removed from office by a national majority of the States, pursuant to the procedures set forth in Section 3(a).

Section 4: Interstate Highway Funds. The United States is prohibited from placing any conditions on any grants of interstate highway funds not directly and reasonably related to the purpose of establishing interstate transportation.

Section 5: Free Market. An internal free market, being necessary to the prosperity of a national economy, the interstate commerce clause set forth in Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3 shall henceforth be construed, with respect to commerce among the states, to give Congress only the power to prohibit State restrictions on interstate trade; and in no event shall this power or any other power in the Constitution be construed to give the Congress plenary legislative or police power. This Section is subject to the limits set forth in Section 1.

Section 6: Income Tax. The 16th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby immediately repealed, and any person convicted of the crime of federal tax evasion, whether currently in prison or not, whether currently living or not, whether also convicted of other crimes or not, is hereby pardoned.

Section 7: Election of Senators. The 17th article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby immediately repealed.

Section 8: State Pardon Power. The governor of each State shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons to any individual convicted of any crime by any federal court who (a) is currently imprisoned within the territory of said State; (b) is a current or previous resident of said State; or (c) committed the acts serving as the basis for said conviction while present in said State.

Section 9: Federal Judiciary. The judicial power of the United States includes the power to nullify (a) any federal law or policy (1) that is not expressly authorized by this Constitution, or (2) that prohibits or unreasonably regulates of a rightful exercise of liberty; and (b) any state law expressly prohibited by a provision of this Constitution or by a constitutional federal statute; but does not include the general power to nullify or review other state laws. This Section is subject to the limits set forth in Section 1.

Section 10: Posse Comitatus. No member of the United States' armed forces or any other armed federal official, employee or agent may be present or bear arms in the territory of a State without the express written permission of the governor of said State. No federal military installation may be placed in the territory of a State without the express written permission of the governor of said State.

Section 11: Original Understanding. The words of this article, and any other provision of this Constitution, shall be interpreted according to their public meaning at the time of their enactment.

you can propose any moronic thing you want..... but a constitutional amendment requires more than trump scum.



original understanding:?

there was no such thing as originalism til Rehnquist and Scalia

but you wouldn't know that because you don't know anything about constitutional law..... including the fact that a constitutional amendment isn't done by executive order signed by the orange sociopath.