Public schools + special needs kids .

[Delta4Embassy]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

We have more than enough cash to give them a decent life, that fits them, and still focus most of our energies on the "normal" kids. It's the idea of treating them all in the same way in the same place at the same time that is utterly stupid. Apples and oranges, let's use a little common sense here.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

We have more than enough cash to give them a decent life, that fits them, and still focus most of our energies on the "normal" kids. It's the idea of treating them all in the same way in the same place at the same time that is utterly stupid. Apples and oranges, let's use a little common sense here.

Yes let's,

"Harvard President Drew Faust recently wrote of students overlooking the benefit of following their “interest in art or linguistics or any of the other humanity disciplines.” The trend towards employable subjects like math and science is reflected in decisions of college students as well as decision-making in primary and secondary schools. Funds have been cut in more than 80 percent of U.S. school districts since 2008. The very first programs to go are often disciplines such as music, art and foreign language.

The president of Harvard is not alone in her concern. Groundbreaking work of cognitive neuroscientists reveals what we think are “extras” are central to strengthening our minds. Studying Mandarin or music as a child might do more for your adult brain and long-term economic prospects than studying biology.

Take music as an example. A study by Virginia Penhune at Concordia University shows that musical training, particularly instrumental training, produces long lasting changes in motor abilities and brain structure. The earlier a child starts instrumental training, the stronger the connection between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. These changes last into adulthood and are proven to affect the ability to listen and communicate as an adult. Nina Krauss, a cognitive neuroscientist at Northwestern University, just released a study that older adults who took music lessons at a young age can process the sounds of speech faster than those who did not, even if they haven’t picked up an instrument in 40 years. "
Extracurriculars Are Central to Learning

"Overview of Funding for Pre-K–12 Education
Background

Federal, state, and local governments fund K–12 public education in the United States. Under the Constitution, the state is responsible for public education. Annual funding levels vary dramatically across the country, with an average range from $4,000 to $10,000 for students without disabilities and $10,000 to $20,000 for students with disabilities. "
Overview of Funding for Pre-K–12 Education

So we cut 80% of normal student funding to music, art, and languages which contribute a helluva lot more to future employability than sports while the costs for special ed students is 2-3 times that of non-special ed students.

Until we aren't cutting such things for the future contributors, special ed funding is what should be getting cut. NOT subjects for, to be brutally blunt since you like that, people who actually matter.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

To put it into simplest terms: funding is finite. If you have just 2 students and $1000 to educate them, where's that limited resource best put? The kid with a thirst for knowledge and interest in learning, or the kid who needs an adult to help him go to the toilet every time, who, if you put a textbook in front of them giggles at all the pictures and exclaims "yay!" a lot?

Sucks, but we can't save everybody.

 

[Rustic]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

We always called special Ed class the retard room in my day.

 

[Rustic]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

We have more than enough cash to give them a decent life, that fits them, and still focus most of our energies on the "normal" kids. It's the idea of treating them all in the same way in the same place at the same time that is utterly stupid. Apples and oranges, let's use a little common sense here.

A century ago the Indian tribes would leave them in the wild to their devices, the Muslims to this day stone them to death.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Called it the special ed class in mine. I'm not trying ot be cruel to them, not their fault. I understand that. But at the same time it'ssimple, cold, unfeeling math. Have only so much money for so many students. If you're already cutting major contributory thing like art and music so you can keep the football team (boggle) and the special ed class, what's better? That? Or cutting the special ed class and bringing back art and music?

An 'educated' special ed kid is still a special ed kid at the end of the road. They aren't going to 'grow out of it' because you threw money at them. The needs of the many...You know the rest.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

We have more than enough cash to give them a decent life, that fits them, and still focus most of our energies on the "normal" kids. It's the idea of treating them all in the same way in the same place at the same time that is utterly stupid. Apples and oranges, let's use a little common sense here.

A century ago the Indian tribes would leave them in the wild to their devices, the Muslims to this day stone them to death.

My intervention comes long before that point, and it doesn't keep me up at night.

 

[Rustic]

TA'd for the Special Ed class in highschool so this isn't coming from ignorance and not knowing who we're talking about. But at the same time, in times of crisis you gotta triage.

I've watched 12-year-olds try to be taught their colors. Yeah, let's just skip that part eh. They don't give a shit and we shouldn't just because it makes people feel better. Life is unfair, it's also brutal. Once you get that you can move on down the road and still give a damn when it really matters.

Used to just warehouse them until they died in asylums. And ancient Greece didn't waste even that much time and just killed them when their disability became apparent.

Until public schools have music and art programs and aren't cutting such things for the sports crap, I'm sorry but some must be sacrificed if all are to survive.

We have more than enough cash to give them a decent life, that fits them, and still focus most of our energies on the "normal" kids. It's the idea of treating them all in the same way in the same place at the same time that is utterly stupid. Apples and oranges, let's use a little common sense here.

A century ago the Indian tribes would leave them in the wild to their own devices, the Muslims to this day stone them to death.

My intervention comes long before that point, and it doesn't keep me up at night.

That is why they call them hard but necessary choices, loses have to be cut somewhere.

 

[Timmy]

A favorite conservative talking point is how private schools educate kids at a cheaper rate .

Problem is that this is very misleading . Public Schools MUST educate and transport all kids . Including the handicapped, behavior kids , and English as a 2nd language . Private schools don't !

I wonder what the voucher crowd thinks we should do with those kids?

Why the hell should I pay to get your kids to school and back, after all, they are your kids?

That's what many parents think until they have a child with a disability. God forbid you ever have to walk a mile in their shoes.

You want to know why your health insurance costs so much? Because your paying for people with cancer, etc. Would you give them the finger and have their care cut off for a price cut? And take the chance of never getting that sick yourself?

And disability has what to do with transportation? Ain't buying your regressivecrat deflection, if you want to comment on what I actually said, feel free.

All kids are entitled transportation to school unless they live really close. I'll find the link for you when I get a chance.

 

[jknowgood]

So what is your point??

I wish I could have went to a private school I didn't, sh!t happens.

I wish you could have "gone" to one was well...

The federal government did not allow Indians on the res to go to private schools, I made out just fine, sh!t happens.
I grew up dirt poor I suspect that being the reason...

The federal government would have had no say in the matter. The Rez is a Sovereign Nation, something you never learned in school apparently, and the same with proper English.

By the way it's a res... An Indian term.
I had no other option than a federal government res schools, no other choice.

You had options, you just couldn't afford them.

No, I raised and paid for my son on my own.

 

[Disir]

A favorite conservative talking point is how private schools educate kids at a cheaper rate .

Problem is that this is very misleading . Public Schools MUST educate and transport all kids . Including the handicapped, behavior kids , and English as a 2nd language . Private schools don't !

I wonder what the voucher crowd thinks we should do with those kids?

The voucher crowd is already aware that they cannot profit from it and either bounces them out or refuses to deal with them at all. Many public schools are pushed to the limits and rather than hire those with degrees and training to work with kids that have disabilities they rely on aides. Often they will just mainstream kids that should not be. This has in the past and continues to have a disrupting element to the classroom.

It's one thing if you are dealing with something like dyslexia because, if caught early enough and done well, these kids become speed readers. It's a whole 'nother ball game if you are dealing with a kid with an IEP reads move the pencil across the desk or who is intellectually disabled and will never be able to live independently. Some areas cannot afford to have special schools. It's not going to happen.

We need to have very frank discussions on what is best in the long term. There seems to be a tremendous amount of focus on getting many of these kids to have "a normal life as possible" when in reality the parent is going to be faced with trying to control and explain to a kid that at the age of majority they cannot have that life. Further, for most there are few to none resources available. What happens if the care givers pass away? You don't have to return to locking these kids in the basement.

Once these conversations start to take place then I think many conservatives and many liberals are going to see eye to eye on where and how funding should be directed so that the kids are treated with dignity and taken care of if and when it is necessary. Right now all they see is money going out and there is no return for the individual and or society.

 

[Timmy]

To put it into simplest terms: funding is finite. If you have just 2 students and $1000 to educate them, where's that limited resource best put? The kid with a thirst for knowledge and interest in learning, or the kid who needs an adult to help him go to the toilet every time, who, if you put a textbook in front of them giggles at all the pictures and exclaims "yay!" a lot?

Sucks, but we can't save everybody.

But there's that pesky Constitution again. You just can't throw one kid aside and not educate him in America.

 

[Conservative65]

A favorite conservative talking point is how private schools educate kids at a cheaper rate .

Problem is that this is very misleading . Public Schools MUST educate and transport all kids . Including the handicapped, behavior kids , and English as a 2nd language . Private schools don't !

I wonder what the voucher crowd thinks we should do with those kids?

In the school district where I live, students can request special permission to go to any of the schools in the district outside their geo-coded, assigned school. In a way, it's a choice. Other than a few reasons, the school cannot deny the request. However, if someone chooses to go to a school other than the one they're assigned, they have to provide their own transportation.

The voucher system doesn't work like that. Where I live, based on the proposal, it gives those choosing to use it a credit equivalent to what they pay in property taxes to fund the public schools in order that they use it to go elsewhere. Since most do not pay in property taxes what spending per pupil is, it saves money. If spending per pupil is $7,000/student but the parents pay only $3000 toward the schools, that's a $4000 savings for the schools. They don't spend on that student for a $4000 gain.

 

[Disir]

In January 2014 Sen. Lamar Alexander (R-TN) introduced a bill to the Senate titled Scholarships for Kids (S. 1968 /H.R. 4000). The bill is a nationwide voucher program that would turn 63 percent of public school education funds into private school vouchers. Now, Alexander’s bill does not touch federal education money for subsidized school lunches, students with disabilities, and students in schools on federally impacted land or military bases, but the Republicans have that covered too. Sen. Tim Scott (R-SC) introduced his bill, the Opportunity for Individuals and Communities through Education (CHOICE) Act, to expand educational opportunities for children with disabilities, children living on military bases, and children living in impoverished areas.

If you think that sounds too good to be true, it is. Scott’s bill is a voucher system for those who need the funding most. Alexander’s and Scott’s bills combined would devastate the public school system. Together these two bills would turn all federal educational funding into vouchers and students living in poor, rural areas and students with disabilities would lose out.

The private school system, which is predominantly comprised of Catholic or Christian religious schools, would benefit greatly by not only receiving tuition fees, but also government funding. They would be free to teach whatever religious-based education they please while taxpayers pick up the tab.

As seen in Louisiana, students are not benefiting from vouchers. Regarding another city, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, which is also using a voucher system, Politico reported that, "Just 13 percent of voucher students scored proficient in math and 11 percent made the bar in reading this spring. That’s worse on both counts than students in the city’s public schools."

Despite its failures, the Republican Party has been able to sell vouchers as saving taxpayers’ money while also giving them a choice in their children’s education. The idea has become a rallying cry of the Tea Party members and Libertarians inside the Republican Party. Libertarians see this as a step toward the privatization of education, removing government from the equation completely, and putting your child’s education on the free market. Former New Mexico governor and 2012 presidential candidate Gary Johnson was known for his voucher program launch for childcare in New Mexico, which resulted in a large boom in business for unregulated religious childcare institutions.

Many parents fall victim to this propaganda because they are unable to afford to send their children to fancy private schools and believe voucher programs will give them access to an education better than what's available at public schools. Sadly, what these parents are left with are kids who get rejected from the school voucher scholarships and are made to return to their now more poorly funded public school, if they are lucky. Why lucky? Because overfunding private schools with vouchers will mean closing many public schools in the poorest of communities and forcing parents to drive one to two towns over to get their children to school.
Why Religious Fundamentalists Are So Excited About Charter Schools

 

[bodecea]

Public school is the default position. It was designed for the poor who could not afford tutors or private school....now people actually demand it. Imagine that.

Government schools were designed by corrupt politicians who capitulated to the membership of the National Education Association.


.

Nope...but if you don't like the public schools in your area you have always been free to either homeschool your children or put them in the private school of your choice. If you do not, why not? Maybe it's really not that important to you then?

 

[Timmy]

A favorite conservative talking point is how private schools educate kids at a cheaper rate .

Problem is that this is very misleading . Public Schools MUST educate and transport all kids . Including the handicapped, behavior kids , and English as a 2nd language . Private schools don't !

I wonder what the voucher crowd thinks we should do with those kids?

In the school district where I live, students can request special permission to go to any of the schools in the district outside their geo-coded, assigned school. In a way, it's a choice. Other than a few reasons, the school cannot deny the request. However, if someone chooses to go to a school other than the one they're assigned, they have to provide their own transportation.

The voucher system doesn't work like that. Where I live, based on the proposal, it gives those choosing to use it a credit equivalent to what they pay in property taxes to fund the public schools in order that they use it to go elsewhere. Since most do not pay in property taxes what spending per pupil is, it saves money. If spending per pupil is $7,000/student but the parents pay only $3000 toward the schools, that's a $4000 savings for the schools. They don't spend on that student for a $4000 gain.

If you don't have kids. Do u get a $7000 tax refund ?

Vouchers annoy me because parents act like the whole tax base is there for thier benefit .

 

[Conservative65]

A favorite conservative talking point is how private schools educate kids at a cheaper rate .

Problem is that this is very misleading . Public Schools MUST educate and transport all kids . Including the handicapped, behavior kids , and English as a 2nd language . Private schools don't !

I wonder what the voucher crowd thinks we should do with those kids?

In the school district where I live, students can request special permission to go to any of the schools in the district outside their geo-coded, assigned school. In a way, it's a choice. Other than a few reasons, the school cannot deny the request. However, if someone chooses to go to a school other than the one they're assigned, they have to provide their own transportation.

The voucher system doesn't work like that. Where I live, based on the proposal, it gives those choosing to use it a credit equivalent to what they pay in property taxes to fund the public schools in order that they use it to go elsewhere. Since most do not pay in property taxes what spending per pupil is, it saves money. If spending per pupil is $7,000/student but the parents pay only $3000 toward the schools, that's a $4000 savings for the schools. They don't spend on that student for a $4000 gain.

If you don't have kids. Do u get a $7000 tax refund ?

Vouchers annoy me because parents act like the whole tax base is there for thier benefit .

Nor are you using any resources.

Isn't that how social welfare recipients act? They believe the tax base, a pot to which they don't contribute, is there for their benefit. In the case of the parents paying property taxes, they're contributing to the tax base.