Putin Didn't Hack Us

[Siete]

Angus I'ts not getting repealed Repub congress have weak knees,,,can't replace or repeal obama care

The point is that hundreds of thousand of people will not die if Obamacare were to be repealed.

The point is that millions of people will lose their health insurance if Obamacare is repealed. And some of those people will die for lack of insurance.

Plenty of people chose to pay the mandate and not take insurance.
Plenty of people chose insurance just to avoid the mandate.

Who, specifically, will be prevented from buying health insurance and specifically why?

The straw man argument that people will die if Obama is repealed is simply idiotic.

So- I want to get this straight- you are saying that if people don't have health insurance- that no one will die from lack of medical care?

While it is true that those without insurance they have acquired through the various ACA provisions(pre-existing conditions, children under their parents insurance, Medicaid, insurance through the exchanges) will be able to go to Emergency rooms and get emergency treatment- and push the cost of their care onto taxpayers that way- those with long term life threatening conditions will not be able to get free surgeries.

To answer your question- I didn't say that people would be 'prevented' from buying health insurance- but if the ACA were completely repealed then people with pre-existing conditions will once again be virtually unable to buy any health insurance.

Those who acquired health insurance through the medicaid expansion will be where they were before- without health insurance of any kind.

Here’s how many people could die every year if Obamacare is repealed
Nearly 36,000 people could die every year, year after year, if the incoming president signs legislation repealing the Affordable Care Act.

This figure is based on new data from the Urban Institute examining how many people will become uninsured if the law is repealed, as well as a study of mortality rates both before and after the state of Massachusetts enacted health reforms similar to Obamacare.

In fairness, 36,000 is a high estimate of the number of deaths that will result if Obamacare is repealed, as there is some uncertainty about how congressional Republicans will repeal the law. Even in the best case scenario, however, a wholesale repeal of Obamacare may cause about 27,000 people to die every year who otherwise would have lived.

you said lack of insurance then lack of medical care.

so not the same.

no insurance equates to no healthcare = same reason for death

your stupid ass needs to get out more

 

[iceberg]

The point is that hundreds of thousand of people will not die if Obamacare were to be repealed.

The point is that millions of people will lose their health insurance if Obamacare is repealed. And some of those people will die for lack of insurance.

Plenty of people chose to pay the mandate and not take insurance.
Plenty of people chose insurance just to avoid the mandate.

Who, specifically, will be prevented from buying health insurance and specifically why?

The straw man argument that people will die if Obama is repealed is simply idiotic.

So- I want to get this straight- you are saying that if people don't have health insurance- that no one will die from lack of medical care?

While it is true that those without insurance they have acquired through the various ACA provisions(pre-existing conditions, children under their parents insurance, Medicaid, insurance through the exchanges) will be able to go to Emergency rooms and get emergency treatment- and push the cost of their care onto taxpayers that way- those with long term life threatening conditions will not be able to get free surgeries.

To answer your question- I didn't say that people would be 'prevented' from buying health insurance- but if the ACA were completely repealed then people with pre-existing conditions will once again be virtually unable to buy any health insurance.

Those who acquired health insurance through the medicaid expansion will be where they were before- without health insurance of any kind.

Here’s how many people could die every year if Obamacare is repealed
Nearly 36,000 people could die every year, year after year, if the incoming president signs legislation repealing the Affordable Care Act.

This figure is based on new data from the Urban Institute examining how many people will become uninsured if the law is repealed, as well as a study of mortality rates both before and after the state of Massachusetts enacted health reforms similar to Obamacare.

In fairness, 36,000 is a high estimate of the number of deaths that will result if Obamacare is repealed, as there is some uncertainty about how congressional Republicans will repeal the law. Even in the best case scenario, however, a wholesale repeal of Obamacare may cause about 27,000 people to die every year who otherwise would have lived.

you said lack of insurance then lack of medical care.

so not the same.

I think I was pretty clear in my statement:

So- I want to get this straight- you are saying that if people don't have health insurance- that no one will die from lack of medical care?

Who pays for the medical care?

1. "might have died". sad to be sure. but if a fact the "might" wouldnt be needed
2. you said both and those are different issues.

 

[flacaltenn]

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"?

Slow down. You KNOW this stuff. Weeks ago you were asserting all of this as fact...

Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the DNC?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the Macron campaign in France?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking Podesta phone?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking into over 30 state Voter Registrar data bases individually?

Are you DENYING all this? Do the Russian CyberWar groups really suck or what? Why are you dodging obviously acceptable "general knowledge" in order to dismiss the FACTS i gave you about how the objectives of Ruskie intel is ALWAYS Kompromat?

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months?

Emails clearly showed a DNC working to undermine the ONLY challenger to Clinton. Just amplifies the entire "voter disenfranchising" system of SuperDelegates and party interference that made this into a farce. Bernie WHOOPED her ass in several states and left with the same number or less of Clinton delegates.

Would have reminded folks of the questionable legitimacy of her entire annointment. Those stolen emails did HAVE the power to toss a Clinton Admin "off the rails" for months.

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it!

If only.. So your argument is that NONE of the DNC/Podesta emails mattered and even the THEFTS didn't rise to the level of triggering a FEDERAL investigation and forensics of the evidence. Because THAT never happened. It ONLY mattered the night that Hillary lost.

I asked you before and you didn't answer. WHY -- did all this ONLY matter on the night of Hillary's defeat??

 

[flacaltenn]

It doesn't contradict basic evidence at all - it contradicts your opinion of the evidence.

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"? You don't. We also catch NK and Chinese hackers - and they are hardly amateur either. But I doubt we even catch them all the time.

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months? Have you considered the fact that there was an highly partisan election ongoing that might have made and kept it in the media attention - not to mention lots of real and fake news, promises of new leaks of emails etc to keep it in the news? Very skillfully done but you and I both know what becomes news and waht stays in the news isn't necessarily what's important right?

The DNC chairs resigned because it was embarrassing for the DNC and - they could not effectively do their jobs with that sort of media blitz.

I am paying attention to what actually occurred.

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it! That's why it would have to be a conspiracy and that takes a much bigger leap of faith than does Putin, acting as Putin has acted for some time now, and doing what Russia/USSR has long done.

again, the proof they hurt her is in her loss. There wouldn't need to be the whole Russia, Russia, thingy if there wasn't anything there, or butt hurt after the loss. just wouldn't. your premise is all wrong.

Hold on a second. You need to get your story straight. Weren't you previously saying the hacking had NO effect on the election? Now you are saying it DID?

Aside from that - they can hurt her by giving the APPEARANCE of something, by how people interpret it and how they think it reflects her character. Not whether there is something worth blackmailing. There is no way of knowing whether the hacks had an affect on her loss - there are too many variables there and it's impossible to know or measure (and I've said this multiple times).

I think - just as the left needs to get over losing the election - you, the right, need to get over blaming everything going wrong on "butthurt" from "election loss". It's over now. Get over it. The Russian hacking may be having it's flames fanned by sore losers but it is not a product of "butt hurt" - it's a serious issue and I would think you would want to make sure we can prevent it from destabilizing the NEXT election - don't you think? That should be the focus here.

me personally, I stated that Seth Rich had the emails and it was no hack. I've never said anything else. Assange admitted who he got the info from. I have faith he's telling the truth. he isn't a politician. There was never a hack. EVAH!!!!!

The emails are the reference. how Assange got them he's already told the public. And the DNC says BS. Well if there was a hack, let's see the server. I've been saying that for quite some time. Prove me and Assange wrong? what are the afraid of" I'll tell you, being caught liars and now costing the country millions on investigations. oops.

But Coyote, I don't believe there was ever a hack. EVAH.

It wasn't a hack. The DNC SERVER has a DEMOCRATS.ORG domain, and you cannot find emails addressed to Podesta at Democrats.org.

Podesta's emails come from GMAIL.com primarily, and some from law.georgetown.edu. He accessed those accounts via a web client remotely. There were no cached copies of those emails on THE DNC SERVER.

The Dummy had to have left his PC on and not locked and had to have been logged in to all of these accounts via a web client, and had to have done this all the time for someone to regularly copy emails from those accounts, because they sure as Hell were not emails that were on THE DNC Server.

Wow, how simple - everyone is wrong, the intelligence agencies are wrong, there was no hack.

Some how, I doubt you've seen all the information or evidence.

NONE of the Intel Agencies "ever saw the evidence" either. I find that QUITE troubling..

 

[flacaltenn]

Everything you assert -- contradicts the basic evidence. Putin's "clowns" got caught EVERY TIME. Professionals don't. There was MASSIVE embarrassment about the content of Podesta/DNC emails. If there wasn't --- it wouldn't have been "a thing" for 4 months. And there wouldn't have been 2 new DNC chairs since.

It doesn't contradict basic evidence at all - it contradicts your opinion of the evidence.

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"? You don't. We also catch NK and Chinese hackers - and they are hardly amateur either. But I doubt we even catch them all the time.

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months? Have you considered the fact that there was an highly partisan election ongoing that might have made and kept it in the media attention - not to mention lots of real and fake news, promises of new leaks of emails etc to keep it in the news? Very skillfully done but you and I both know what becomes news and waht stays in the news isn't necessarily what's important right?

The DNC chairs resigned because it was embarrassing for the DNC and - they could not effectively do their jobs with that sort of media blitz.

So you're ignoring what ACTUALLY occurred in order to attempt to contradict the statements I made about how Russian Intel operates.

And NOBODY else was required to "be in on it". Those documents carried the stamp of approval from "all 17 Intel Agencies.. (Except that they didn't -- It was a total Crapper production after all)..

Stick to "the narrative". Ignore how things work. That's why the left never actually UNDERSTANDS how things work...

I am paying attention to what actually occurred.

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it! That's why it would have to be a conspiracy and that takes a much bigger leap of faith than does Putin, acting as Putin has acted for some time now, and doing what Russia/USSR has long done.

again, the proof they hurt her is in her loss. There wouldn't need to be the whole Russia, Russia, thingy if there wasn't anything there, or butt hurt after the loss. just wouldn't. your premise is all wrong.

Hold on a second. You need to get your story straight. Weren't you previously saying the hacking had NO effect on the election? Now you are saying it DID?

Aside from that - they can hurt her by giving the APPEARANCE of something, by how people interpret it and how they think it reflects her character. Not whether there is something worth blackmailing. There is no way of knowing whether the hacks had an affect on her loss - there are too many variables there and it's impossible to know or measure (and I've said this multiple times).

I think - just as the left needs to get over losing the election - you, the right, need to get over blaming everything going wrong on "butthurt" from "election loss". It's over now. Get over it. The Russian hacking may be having it's flames fanned by sore losers but it is not a product of "butt hurt" - it's a serious issue and I would think you would want to make sure we can prevent it from destabilizing the NEXT election - don't you think? That should be the focus here.

me personally, I stated that Seth Rich had the emails and it was no hack. I've never said anything else. Assange admitted who he got the info from. I have faith he's telling the truth. he isn't a politician. There was never a hack. EVAH!!!!!

The emails are the reference. how Assange got them he's already told the public. And the DNC says BS. Well if there was a hack, let's see the server. I've been saying that for quite some time. Prove me and Assange wrong? what are the afraid of" I'll tell you, being caught liars and now costing the country millions on investigations. oops.

But Coyote, I don't believe there was ever a hack. EVAH.

It wasn't a hack. The DNC SERVER has a DEMOCRATS.ORG domain, and you cannot find emails addressed to Podesta at Democrats.org.

Podesta's emails come from GMAIL.com primarily, and some from law.georgetown.edu. He accessed those accounts via a web client remotely. There were no cached copies of those emails on THE DNC SERVER.

The Dummy had to have left his PC on and not locked and had to have been logged in to all of these accounts via a web client, and had to have done this all the time for someone to regularly copy emails from those accounts, because they sure as Hell were not emails that were on THE DNC Server.

I'm not getting this. Catch me up. Two completely different data thefts. ONE was an intrusion (either a hack or inside job) on the DNC server on IT"S domain. Attributed to "russians" but NOT DIRECTLY to the Russian Govt. The phony 3rd report claimed fingerprints from 2 OUTSIDE Russian hackers --- not directly connected to the Russian Intel Agencies. (CozyBear and FancyBear)..

The 2nd theft is a KNOWN phishing expedition on Podesta Gmail account. TOTALLY different material. HAD to be different. The Podesta data was privvy to the CLINTON campaign. And the DNC data was SUPPOSED to be neutral Dem party business.

So WHAT is the BFD about democrats.org domain? The 2 thefts are TOTALLY unrelated..

 

[flacaltenn]

Why would anybody believe our intel community about Russian hacking

Why do you so desperately want to believe Russia?

Did you read the OP for this thread? It's not even as simple as FINDING a Russian IP address strike on a server. The "Pros" can make it look like Israel did it. Including the Hebrew notes and text in the malware.

It's NOT a matter of "believing Russia".. It's a matter of the GOVT screwed up BIG TIME by not seizing that evidence and turning it over to the professionals for REAL Intel Content.

The Intel Agencies can link code to creators. KNOWS where the creators were last Sunday because of Foreign Surveillance assets. THey have TONS of more context to view the evidence with THAN ANY private org.

Because if was an OFFICIAL Kremlin Intel act -- ONLY the govt Cyber Agencies are qualified to analyze the methods...

But it wasn't important to the Obama Admin --- until Hillary lost..

 

[Coyote]

////

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"?

Slow down. You KNOW this stuff. Weeks ago you were asserting all of this as fact...

Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the DNC?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the Macron campaign in France?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking Podesta phone?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking into over 30 state Voter Registrar data bases individually?

Are you DENYING all this? Do the Russian CyberWar groups really suck or what? Why are you dodging obviously acceptable "general knowledge" in order to dismiss the FACTS i gave you about how the objectives of Ruskie intel is ALWAYS Kompromat?

None of us have direct access to any source material. Yes? No?

As such - we have to go by what the media finds and reports, what the government lets out, and what trusted agencies tell us. Yes? No?

Did China get caught hacking? Chinese hacking sharply declining: report

Did NK get caught hacking? North Korea's hacker army: A look at Hermit Kingdom's 'elite' cyber ops

Why is it there is NO QUESTION that China hacked us - NO QUESTION that North Korea hacked us but Russia? Inconceivable! They never leave traces (but the Chinese are less capable? The NK's are less capable?).

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months?

Emails clearly showed a DNC working to undermine the ONLY challenger to Clinton. Just amplifies the entire "voter disenfranchising" system of SuperDelegates and party interference that made this into a farce. Bernie WHOOPED her ass in several states and left with the same number or less of Clinton delegates.

Would have reminded folks of the questionable legitimacy of her entire annointment. Those stolen emails did HAVE the power to toss a Clinton Admin "off the rails" for months.

The DNC. Not Clinton. Embarressing for the DNC. But even then - what did it amount to? What are the facts? Bernie didn't get enough states and the DNC didn't even have do anything. It wasn't even close - her legitimacy for the primary was pretty clear (by 387 pledged delegates and 3.7 million votes.) What releasing that stuff did do was create a rift among Democrat voters, with angry Sanders supporters who saw their candidate disrespected by the party, and the party looking at manipulating things to favor Hillary, and drive those voters from supporting Hillary.

The Democratic Primary Wasn’t Rigged

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it!

If only.. So your argument is that NONE of the DNC/Podesta emails mattered and even the THEFTS didn't rise to the level of triggering a FEDERAL investigation and forensics of the evidence. Because THAT never happened. It ONLY mattered the night that Hillary lost.

I asked you before and you didn't answer. WHY -- did all this ONLY matter on the night of Hillary's defeat??[/QUOTE]

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

 

[Mr.Blonde]

Putin is a murdering thug. The fact that you are trying to defend him shows how crooked and evil you are.

It is called living in reality.
Is Putin a monster? Yes
Is Putin the worst person in the world? Not even close
Is Putin sane? Yes

Did Russia hack the DNC and Hillary's private illegal server? Yes and so did everyone from China to bored people on 4Chan. Good luck in tracing everything back to solely Russia.

It makes no sense for them to have the information and want Trump to be president. It is far better for them to have Hillary as president and have black mail on her

Hill has been inspected ,bashed investigated numerous times You got NOTHING on her Russia loved trump that's why they helped him

and she is a criminal. just because her side kept her out of jail doesn't mean she isn't a criminal.

How very Republican of you.

Bring the noose and hang the accused, and then point out you didn't need a trial because she was a criminal.....

That is what Democrats do:

FDR and Japanese Americans

Obama and Anwar al-Awlaki

 

[eddiew]

Putin is a murdering thug. The fact that you are trying to defend him shows how crooked and evil you are.

It is called living in reality.
Is Putin a monster? Yes
Is Putin the worst person in the world? Not even close
Is Putin sane? Yes

Did Russia hack the DNC and Hillary's private illegal server? Yes and so did everyone from China to bored people on 4Chan. Good luck in tracing everything back to solely Russia.

It makes no sense for them to have the information and want Trump to be president. It is far better for them to have Hillary as president and have black mail on her

Hill has been inspected ,bashed investigated numerous times You got NOTHING on her Russia loved trump that's why they helped him

and she is a criminal. just because her side kept her out of jail doesn't mean she isn't a criminal.

How very Republican of you.

Bring the noose and hang the accused, and then point out you didn't need a trial because she was a criminal.....

That is what Democrats do:

FDR and Japanese Americans

Obama and Anwar al-Awlaki

Trump and Putin

 

[flacaltenn]

////

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"?

Slow down. You KNOW this stuff. Weeks ago you were asserting all of this as fact...

Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the DNC?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the Macron campaign in France?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking Podesta phone?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking into over 30 state Voter Registrar data bases individually?

Are you DENYING all this? Do the Russian CyberWar groups really suck or what? Why are you dodging obviously acceptable "general knowledge" in order to dismiss the FACTS i gave you about how the objectives of Ruskie intel is ALWAYS Kompromat?

None of us have direct access to any source material. Yes? No?

As such - we have to go by what the media finds and reports, what the government lets out, and what trusted agencies tell us. Yes? No?

Did China get caught hacking? Chinese hacking sharply declining: report

Did NK get caught hacking? North Korea's hacker army: A look at Hermit Kingdom's 'elite' cyber ops

Why is it there is NO QUESTION that China hacked us - NO QUESTION that North Korea hacked us but Russia? Inconceivable! They never leave traces (but the Chinese are less capable? The NK's are less capable?).

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months?

Emails clearly showed a DNC working to undermine the ONLY challenger to Clinton. Just amplifies the entire "voter disenfranchising" system of SuperDelegates and party interference that made this into a farce. Bernie WHOOPED her ass in several states and left with the same number or less of Clinton delegates.

Would have reminded folks of the questionable legitimacy of her entire annointment. Those stolen emails did HAVE the power to toss a Clinton Admin "off the rails" for months.

The DNC. Not Clinton. Embarressing for the DNC. But even then - what did it amount to? What are the facts? Bernie didn't get enough states and the DNC didn't even have do anything. It wasn't even close - her legitimacy for the primary was pretty clear (by 387 pledged delegates and 3.7 million votes.) What releasing that stuff did do was create a rift among Democrat voters, with angry Sanders supporters who saw their candidate disrespected by the party, and the party looking at manipulating things to favor Hillary, and drive those voters from supporting Hillary.

The Democratic Primary Wasn’t Rigged

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it!

If only.. So your argument is that NONE of the DNC/Podesta emails mattered and even the THEFTS didn't rise to the level of triggering a FEDERAL investigation and forensics of the evidence. Because THAT never happened. It ONLY mattered the night that Hillary lost.

I asked you before and you didn't answer. WHY -- did all this ONLY matter on the night of Hillary's defeat??

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.[/QUOTE]

NK got caught hacking Sony to STOP the release of Movie harmful to their God - King.. A deaf, dumb and blind person --- could figure that out. ANY OTHER NK hacks are almost obvious because there are so FEW Network transactions from the Flea Bitten country in the 1st place, that it's almost TRIVIAL to find and record EVERY ONE of them. So even IF -- they float a new IP address from elsewhere, It's almost OBVIOUS it's a NK government proxy site.

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

Are you trying to convince me that REPUBS would have pissed about interference into Hillary's campaign?

Or that Dems are so entirely UNREASONABLE that Obama ordering the full power of the Nation's Cyber assets to analyze the DNC break-in would have been objected to by Dem voters???

Don't think either is plausible. INSTEAD -- the lack of RESPONSE was POLITICAL expedience to avoid a 2nd and 3rd body slam about EMAIL "scandals" linked to Clinton herself and her campaign. Simple Political "self-preservation".

Besides -- She was gonna WIN right? So what did BHO care?

BUT --- it probably occurred to them, it would MORE VALUABLE to use it as "resistance" material on that far out possibility that SOMEHOW -- she lost.. IN FACT -- the Obama Admin started Domestic Surveillance on the Trump campaign shortly AFTER the "break-in" was announced. KNOWING they had that "justification" in their back pocket should HE WIN and they got caught spying on a political opponent..

THAT -- is VERY likely -- what happened here..

 

[busybee01]

To all you Liberals clinging to the Russian Hacker blankee, you do realize that it is a common ploy for hackers to spoof the source address to make it appear as if the hack came from one source when it actually came from another. You do know that, right?​

You do know that you are a cracked pot. The fact is that Trump's own NSA found evidence of Russia's continued hacking into state voter rolls. You do know that you are a Russian troll right?

Still no proof provided. Regardless if it happened or not, this is nothing new. As you know, Obama interfered with elections all over the world.

Who's servers did he hack? You are nothing but Trump trash that needs to be gotten rid off.

Hard to tell since the DNC wont give em up.....

Not hard to tell at all. Again the information didn't come from the tooth fairy.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

No one hacked "us". The DNC was hacked or a whistle blower leaked the damning emails. The only thing we have to go on is the DNC's word they won't turn over servers for examination, which begs to question how did the 4 (not 17) agencies come to the conclusion that it was the Russians.

All of this brings up an unrelated question why the fuck do we need so many intelligence agencies ? As I recall they never play well with others seldom ever agree and cost a butt load to operate. I never want to scrimp on National Security but being overly redundant is idiotic.

 

[Coyote]

////

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"?

Slow down. You KNOW this stuff. Weeks ago you were asserting all of this as fact...

Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the DNC?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the Macron campaign in France?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking Podesta phone?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking into over 30 state Voter Registrar data bases individually?

Are you DENYING all this? Do the Russian CyberWar groups really suck or what? Why are you dodging obviously acceptable "general knowledge" in order to dismiss the FACTS i gave you about how the objectives of Ruskie intel is ALWAYS Kompromat?

None of us have direct access to any source material. Yes? No?

As such - we have to go by what the media finds and reports, what the government lets out, and what trusted agencies tell us. Yes? No?

Did China get caught hacking? Chinese hacking sharply declining: report

Did NK get caught hacking? North Korea's hacker army: A look at Hermit Kingdom's 'elite' cyber ops

Why is it there is NO QUESTION that China hacked us - NO QUESTION that North Korea hacked us but Russia? Inconceivable! They never leave traces (but the Chinese are less capable? The NK's are less capable?).

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months?

Emails clearly showed a DNC working to undermine the ONLY challenger to Clinton. Just amplifies the entire "voter disenfranchising" system of SuperDelegates and party interference that made this into a farce. Bernie WHOOPED her ass in several states and left with the same number or less of Clinton delegates.

Would have reminded folks of the questionable legitimacy of her entire annointment. Those stolen emails did HAVE the power to toss a Clinton Admin "off the rails" for months.

The DNC. Not Clinton. Embarressing for the DNC. But even then - what did it amount to? What are the facts? Bernie didn't get enough states and the DNC didn't even have do anything. It wasn't even close - her legitimacy for the primary was pretty clear (by 387 pledged delegates and 3.7 million votes.) What releasing that stuff did do was create a rift among Democrat voters, with angry Sanders supporters who saw their candidate disrespected by the party, and the party looking at manipulating things to favor Hillary, and drive those voters from supporting Hillary.

The Democratic Primary Wasn’t Rigged

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it!

If only.. So your argument is that NONE of the DNC/Podesta emails mattered and even the THEFTS didn't rise to the level of triggering a FEDERAL investigation and forensics of the evidence. Because THAT never happened. It ONLY mattered the night that Hillary lost.

I asked you before and you didn't answer. WHY -- did all this ONLY matter on the night of Hillary's defeat??

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

NK got caught hacking Sony to STOP the release of Movie harmful to their God - King.. A deaf, dumb and blind person --- could figure that out. ANY OTHER NK hacks are almost obvious because there are so FEW Network transactions from the Flea Bitten country in the 1st place, that it's almost TRIVIAL to find and record EVERY ONE of them. So even IF -- they float a new IP address from elsewhere, It's almost OBVIOUS it's a NK government proxy site.[/quote]

And China's many hacking attempts?

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

Are you trying to convince me that REPUBS would have pissed about interference into Hillary's campaign?

Or that Dems are so entirely UNREASONABLE that Obama ordering the full power of the Nation's Cyber assets to analyze the DNC break-in would have been objected to by Dem voters???

Don't think either is plausible. INSTEAD -- It was POLITICAL expedience to avoid a 2nd and 3rd body slam about EMAIL "scandals" linked to Clinton herself and her campaign. Simple Political "self-preservation".

Besides -- She was gonna WIN right? So what did BHO care?

No, I don't agree. Some of the Dems wanted there to be a more vocal public position on the hacking before the election. But it would have played VERY badly - you know it. How would the rightwing media and the Trump campaign have spun it? Obama attempts to rig the election with "fake" hacking claims....oh that would have been a doozy.

BUT --- it probably occurred to them, it would MORE VALUABLE to use it as "resistance" material on that far out possibility that SOMEHOW -- she lost.. IN FACT -- the Obama Admin started Domestic Surveillance on the Trump campaign shortly AFTER the "break-in" was announced. KNOWING they had that "justification" in their back pocket should HE WIN and they got caught spying on a political opponent..

THAT -- is VERY likely -- what happened here..

Nope...don't agree...I am convinced Obama was sincerely and deeply concerned about the fact that these actions (not just the DNC hack, but the many others surrounding the election) represented a red line that should not be crossed and he was a substantial threat to our democratic institutions. That is why he quietly and professionally had it investigated and gathered information and made sure Trump Administration couldn't simply destroy or bury it afterward.

 

[busybee01]

Lemme see if I have this straight. The Russian Intel Cyber groups attacked the DNC server and got caught. They attacked Podesta's Phone and got caught. They attacked Macron's email campaign email and got caught and they attacked 30 or 40 state registrars offices and got caught EVERY TIME..

Only one conclusion.. Russian Intel CyberWar groups TRULY SUCK. They are laughably INCOMPETENT. And they should be ashamed of themselves..

Here's a clue. Because I know a bit about the competence and awesomeness of Intel capabilities of govts around the world. In their Govts, they are ALWAYS the most capable, competent organizations in their nations. And you DON'T expect them to "get caught"...

The fact is that our intelligence services are the best of the world. In the case of Macron, it is no big secret they backed La Pen. Putin backed La Pen with cold, hard cash. It is hardly a coincidence that the hacks occurred in the US and France.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

////

How do you KNOW they get caught "every time"?

Slow down. You KNOW this stuff. Weeks ago you were asserting all of this as fact...

Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the DNC?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking the Macron campaign in France?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking Podesta phone?
Did "the Russians" get caught hacking into over 30 state Voter Registrar data bases individually?

Are you DENYING all this? Do the Russian CyberWar groups really suck or what? Why are you dodging obviously acceptable "general knowledge" in order to dismiss the FACTS i gave you about how the objectives of Ruskie intel is ALWAYS Kompromat?

None of us have direct access to any source material. Yes? No?

As such - we have to go by what the media finds and reports, what the government lets out, and what trusted agencies tell us. Yes? No?

Did China get caught hacking? Chinese hacking sharply declining: report

Did NK get caught hacking? North Korea's hacker army: A look at Hermit Kingdom's 'elite' cyber ops

Why is it there is NO QUESTION that China hacked us - NO QUESTION that North Korea hacked us but Russia? Inconceivable! They never leave traces (but the Chinese are less capable? The NK's are less capable?).

There was embarressment about the DNC emails - but when all the noise died down - there really wasn't much of substance, there was nothing illegal, and nothing worth blackmail. Why was it "a thing" for 4 months?

Emails clearly showed a DNC working to undermine the ONLY challenger to Clinton. Just amplifies the entire "voter disenfranchising" system of SuperDelegates and party interference that made this into a farce. Bernie WHOOPED her ass in several states and left with the same number or less of Clinton delegates.

Would have reminded folks of the questionable legitimacy of her entire annointment. Those stolen emails did HAVE the power to toss a Clinton Admin "off the rails" for months.

The DNC. Not Clinton. Embarressing for the DNC. But even then - what did it amount to? What are the facts? Bernie didn't get enough states and the DNC didn't even have do anything. It wasn't even close - her legitimacy for the primary was pretty clear (by 387 pledged delegates and 3.7 million votes.) What releasing that stuff did do was create a rift among Democrat voters, with angry Sanders supporters who saw their candidate disrespected by the party, and the party looking at manipulating things to favor Hillary, and drive those voters from supporting Hillary.

The Democratic Primary Wasn’t Rigged

If the Russians didn't do it - there would not be agreement, someone would speak out and for sure the REPUBLICANS would use it!

If only.. So your argument is that NONE of the DNC/Podesta emails mattered and even the THEFTS didn't rise to the level of triggering a FEDERAL investigation and forensics of the evidence. Because THAT never happened. It ONLY mattered the night that Hillary lost.

I asked you before and you didn't answer. WHY -- did all this ONLY matter on the night of Hillary's defeat??

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

NK got caught hacking Sony to STOP the release of Movie harmful to their God - King.. A deaf, dumb and blind person --- could figure that out. ANY OTHER NK hacks are almost obvious because there are so FEW Network transactions from the Flea Bitten country in the 1st place, that it's almost TRIVIAL to find and record EVERY ONE of them. So even IF -- they float a new IP address from elsewhere, It's almost OBVIOUS it's a NK government proxy site.

Because it DID matter before, but attempting to do anything too loudly - against the back drop of noise from the Trump campaign about "election rigging" would have looked like nothing more than Obama attempting to "meddle" with the election - something sitting presidents take great pains to involve even the perception of. The fact is - it mattered enough that the Obama administration and intelligence were doing a great deal quietly to gather information, to confront Russia and boot out her spies.

Are you trying to convince me that REPUBS would have pissed about interference into Hillary's campaign?

Or that Dems are so entirely UNREASONABLE that Obama ordering the full power of the Nation's Cyber assets to analyze the DNC break-in would have been objected to by Dem voters???

Don't think either is plausible. INSTEAD -- the lack of RESPONSE was POLITICAL expedience to avoid a 2nd and 3rd body slam about EMAIL "scandals" linked to Clinton herself and her campaign. Simple Political "self-preservation".

Besides -- She was gonna WIN right? So what did BHO care?

BUT --- it probably occurred to them, it would MORE VALUABLE to use it as "resistance" material on that far out possibility that SOMEHOW -- she lost.. IN FACT -- the Obama Admin started Domestic Surveillance on the Trump campaign shortly AFTER the "break-in" was announced. KNOWING they had that "justification" in their back pocket should HE WIN and they got caught spying on a political opponent..

THAT -- is VERY likely -- what happened here..[/QUOTE]
More likely the reason was Obama thought Clinton was going to win. Simple explanation I know but Occam's Razor and all that.

 

[busybee01]

The evidence Putin attacked our country is overwhelming. Only retards deny it at this point. Hardcore retards and traitors.

I am not going to bother with willfully blind monkeys who work diligently to avoid looking at the evidence. These people are traitors, owned by Putin.

Trump has seen the evidence and still denies it. He is too in love with Putin, and he is denying the truth and converting his Chumps into traitors.

Trump's Chumps parrot what they are told to parrot, and bleev what they are told to bleev.

Fuck them. Fuck them all.

What evidence? Present it. So far we have unsubstantiated claims by ultra biased media talking heads. That's it.

Mike Pence saw the evidence and agreed with it. Trump's CIA Director agrees that Russia hacked the elections.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

To all you Liberals clinging to the Russian Hacker blankee, you do realize that it is a common ploy for hackers to spoof the source address to make it appear as if the hack came from one source when it actually came from another. You do know that, right?​

You do know that you are a cracked pot. The fact is that Trump's own NSA found evidence of Russia's continued hacking into state voter rolls. You do know that you are a Russian troll right?

Still no proof provided. Regardless if it happened or not, this is nothing new. As you know, Obama interfered with elections all over the world.

Who's servers did he hack? You are nothing but Trump trash that needs to be gotten rid off.

Hard to tell since the DNC wont give em up.....

Not hard to tell at all. Again the information didn't come from the tooth fairy.

Holy Shit a dem gets it right for once!
Seth Rich.

 

[busybee01]

You do know that you are a cracked pot. The fact is that Trump's own NSA found evidence of Russia's continued hacking into state voter rolls. You do know that you are a Russian troll right?

Still no proof provided. Regardless if it happened or not, this is nothing new. As you know, Obama interfered with elections all over the world.

Who's servers did he hack? You are nothing but Trump trash that needs to be gotten rid off.

Hard to tell since the DNC wont give em up.....

Not hard to tell at all. Again the information didn't come from the tooth fairy.

Holy Shit a dem gets it right for once!
Seth Rich.

The only thing that Seth Rich proves is how demented Trump sycophants are.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Still no proof provided. Regardless if it happened or not, this is nothing new. As you know, Obama interfered with elections all over the world.

Who's servers did he hack? You are nothing but Trump trash that needs to be gotten rid off.

Hard to tell since the DNC wont give em up.....

Not hard to tell at all. Again the information didn't come from the tooth fairy.

Holy Shit a dem gets it right for once!
Seth Rich.

The only thing that Seth Rich proves is how demented Trump sycophants are.

Seth was a dem.

 

[The Original Tree]

The Russians have not been caught Hacking in to anything.

The only Hacking group that we know for sure Hacked anything was Obama's Cyber Hacking team trying to hack in to our election systems to make a case for Federal takeover of State Elections. They also Conducted Illegal Woretapping on The Entire Trump Campaign Team.

And why in The Fuck would Russia want Trump? Bill and Hillary Clinton sucked Putin's Cock while Podesta licked his balls and asshole every day.

They took Millions from Putin and did whatever he asked them to do. Trump was going to be much much more difficult to deal with than Clinton.

The most logical explanation is the one that we have two eye witnesses for.

Both assert that they will make Sworn Testimony about Seth Rich's relationship with Wikileaks.

Assange and Kim.com owner both said Seth Rich Leaked DNC emails to Wikileaks multiple times because he was sick of The Corruption at The DNC especially after he came to the realization that The Democrat Party was Rigging their own Primaries.

With The DNC refusing to cooperate there is no proof of any Hacking and there never will be. But there is proof of a ton of shenanigans done by The Democrat Party.

There will be a coverup operation run by Mueller to conceal the fact The DNC, Clinton, Obama and operatives in The Intelligence Community Colluded together to try to Rig The 2016 Election!

Why would anybody believe our intel community about Russian hacking

Why do you so desperately want to believe Russia?

Did you read the OP for this thread? It's not even as simple as FINDING a Russian IP address strike on a server. The "Pros" can make it look like Israel did it. Including the Hebrew notes and text in the malware.

It's NOT a matter of "believing Russia".. It's a matter of the GOVT screwed up BIG TIME by not seizing that evidence and turning it over to the professionals for REAL Intel Content.

The Intel Agencies can link code to creators. KNOWS where the creators were last Sunday because of Foreign Surveillance assets. THey have TONS of more context to view the evidence with THAN ANY private org.

Because if was an OFFICIAL Kremlin Intel act -- ONLY the govt Cyber Agencies are qualified to analyze the methods...

But it wasn't important to the Obama Admin --- until Hillary lost..