Q. For Small Government Adherents

[rightwinger]

To the right, small government means not doing anything that will help people who are struggling

But don't do anything that might annoy the rich

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective



.

 

[dblack]

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense



See General Welfare

Yes, your interpretation of "general welfare" is exactly what's at issue. Some of us don't think that government should be used as a tool to get what we want from others by force.

Some of us think that We the People elect those who are most in tune with what we expect a government to be

That is not force, that is democracy

Some of us are amoral cowards. Bullying others isn't made right just because your gang is bigger.

If you are being bullied you have access to our court system. The fact that most Americans don't agree with your point of view is not bullying

When the police show up at my door to force their will on me, it is.

 

[bripat9643]

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

Great societies take care of their own

It's hardly the "cornerstone" of the Constitution, but servile boot-licking toadies such as you like to think so. The Founders viewed taxation as a necessary evil, at best. In fact they viewed government as a necessary evil.

 

[hortysir]

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective

We've already established that government programs are bloated and inefficient.
Voluntary charity can't do any worse

 

[RandallFlagg]

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

Great societies take care of their own

It's hardly the "cornerstone" of the Constitution, but servile boot-licking toadies such as you like to think so. The Founders viewed taxation as a necessary evil, at best. In fact they viewed government as a necessary evil.

We went to war with England because they were taking 1% of our resources. Now, we happily give them (Uncle Sugar) 30-40% and never bat an eye.

 

[bripat9643]

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective

Hmmm, no, but government is hardly the most efficient or effective means. How much of the money devoted to poverty programs actually gets to the intended beneficiaries?

 

[bripat9643]

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

Great societies take care of their own

It's hardly the "cornerstone" of the Constitution, but servile boot-licking toadies such as you like to think so. The Founders viewed taxation as a necessary evil, at best. In fact they viewed government as a necessary evil.

We went to war with England because they were taking 1% of our resources. Now, we happily give them (Uncle Sugar) 30-40% and never bat an eye.

We now pay more in taxes than we formerly earned in wages. Under the monarchy, government at all levels took something like 3% of our incomes. I would hardly call a democracy that takes 40% an improvement.

 

[Pksimon2007]

How could any sane person possibly advocate expanding the federal government?

Those on the left do it every day - claiming that "government" is the answer. Pretty much like the German people during the Weimar Republic. We saw how that turned out, didn't we?

- If I need words to put on a bumper sticker, I'll ask.

The Weimar Republic?

I'd be happy to educate you on the experience of the Weimar Republic, so that you can make more informed decisions.

The government of the Weimar Republic was quite small, and had very little power.

Their hyperinflation had nothing to do with profligate spending or large government, and everything to do with harsh war reparations and negative supply shocks.

If you want to understand it, rather than being satisfied with meaningless one-liners, I can do so, or I can post links to good references.

"The government of the Weimar Republic was quite small, and had very little power."

That's absolute horseshit. The Weimar government ran practically everything. It had a social insurance program, a medical insurance program, numerous other social programs and regulated business to the teeth.

- Ah, a Glenn Beck listener.

None of that is actually true. The Weimar Republic inherited some of the Kaiser's existing programs, but they were quite modest, and were neglected during the Weimar regime for lack of money.

Apparently you've never read "The Road to Serfdom" were Frederick von Hayek detailed all the Weimar Republic's interventions into the economy. Try it sometime and learn something.

You probably ought to subject your (or Glenn's) musings to the test of common sense.

The Weimar Republic was established by the Allies as an allied proxy to prevent the re-emergence of German power after WWI.

The Weimar Republic was not established by the allies. Do you know anything that's actually true?

Weimar Republic - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia​

Following the First World War, the republic emerged from the German Revolution in November 1918. In 1919, a national assembly was convened in Weimar, where a new constitution for the German Reich was written, then adopted on 11 August of that same year.​

Does it make sense to you that the Allies would establish such a proxy with broad, extensive powers to create massive government programs, or would they severely restrict what it could do in order to achieve the twin goals of preventing another war and extracting war reparations?

Since the allies had nothing to do with it, what they would want is totally irrelevant.

After you ask yourself that question, run to the library and read real history, and quit listening to Beck and taking stupid internet memes as gospel.

Please show us a reference that says the allies created the Weimar Republic.

- The Weimar Republic was established to negotiate with the Allies. The Allies, particularly Wilson, refused to negotiate with anyone but the social democrats. Perhaps "established" was too strong a word. It was selected from among several contenders to establish a German government by the allies as the only government with which it would negotiate.

The Weimar Republic

 

[RandallFlagg]

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective

Hmmm, no, but government is hardly the most efficient or effective means. How much of the money devoted to poverty programs actually gets to the intended beneficiaries?

Again, LBJ started his "Great Society" nonsense to "end poverty in our lifetime". 50 Trillion dollars later........

 

[RandallFlagg]

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

Great societies take care of their own

It's hardly the "cornerstone" of the Constitution, but servile boot-licking toadies such as you like to think so. The Founders viewed taxation as a necessary evil, at best. In fact they viewed government as a necessary evil.

We went to war with England because they were taking 1% of our resources. Now, we happily give them (Uncle Sugar) 30-40% and never bat an eye.

We now pay more in taxes than we formerly earned in wages. Under the monarchy, government at all levels took something like 3% of our incomes. I would hardly call a democracy that takes 40% an improvement.

Indeed.

 

[Pksimon2007]

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

No, it's simply extortion we have to pay for failing to evict a gang of criminals from our midsts

- Okay, so now we have established that you do not support the Constitution at all, and have been dishonest in offering constitutional arguments.

We already knew that, but it's nice to see you smoked out into the open.

 

[Pksimon2007]

To the right, small government means not doing anything that will help people who are struggling

But don't do anything that might annoy the rich

Again, for those incapable of rational thought, it is the job of the STATES to take care of the citizens living there. NOT the fed. Show me in the Constitution where the federal government is charged with this.

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

- Why?

 

[rightwinger]

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense



See General Welfare

Yes, your interpretation of "general welfare" is exactly what's at issue. Some of us don't think that government should be used as a tool to get what we want from others by force.

Some of us think that We the People elect those who are most in tune with what we expect a government to be

That is not force, that is democracy

Some of us are amoral cowards. Bullying others isn't made right just because your gang is bigger.

If you are being bullied you have access to our court system. The fact that most Americans don't agree with your point of view is not bullying

When the police show up at my door to force their will on me, it is.

Drama queen

 

[The Rabbi]

Nine pages of good cogent ideas and your response is simply to dismiss them. Typical.

Isn't that the operational plan of the left; to ask the question, then belittle the answer?

Truthfully, I have understood for years, the way the left ambushes those on the right.

- Where is the answer?

The OP asked for a cost-benefit analysis. I already explained how you could frame an honest answer. The Rabbi chose to do so. You have not.

Before you go on ignore, I suggest you go back through the thread and read my answer in my initial post. I don't give a hoot in hell about the "cost-benefit" crap. The federal government is NOT a corporation (as apparently you believe it is) it is a form of governence and a form that is leading us into tyranny - as our founders warned us against.

The benefit of smaller government is more freedom and more economic growth, resulting in higher incomes across the board.
The cost of smaller gov't is loss of power to some elites.
Seems like a no brainer to me.

- If that is the case, then why have government at all?

Reductio ad absurdum fallacy.
Face it, you have lost this argument.

 

[rightwinger]

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective

Hmmm, no, but government is hardly the most efficient or effective means. How much of the money devoted to poverty programs actually gets to the intended beneficiaries?

Again, LBJ started his "Great Society" nonsense to "end poverty in our lifetime". 50 Trillion dollars later........

Our defense budget has not ended war in our time

 

[dblack]

Yes, your interpretation of "general welfare" is exactly what's at issue. Some of us don't think that government should be used as a tool to get what we want from others by force.

Some of us think that We the People elect those who are most in tune with what we expect a government to be

That is not force, that is democracy

Some of us are amoral cowards. Bullying others isn't made right just because your gang is bigger.

If you are being bullied you have access to our court system. The fact that most Americans don't agree with your point of view is not bullying

When the police show up at my door to force their will on me, it is.

Drama queen

Heh... (iow - "I got nuthin").

 

[RandallFlagg]

Yes, your interpretation of "general welfare" is exactly what's at issue. Some of us don't think that government should be used as a tool to get what we want from others by force.

Some of us think that We the People elect those who are most in tune with what we expect a government to be

That is not force, that is democracy

Some of us are amoral cowards. Bullying others isn't made right just because your gang is bigger.

If you are being bullied you have access to our court system. The fact that most Americans don't agree with your point of view is not bullying

When the police show up at my door to force their will on me, it is.

Drama queen

Well sir, we'll see in the coming years.

 

[Pksimon2007]

Nonsense

It is the job of all levels of Government. Done at the level where it makes the most sense

See General Welfare

One day it might sink into your mushy head that the COTUS calls for the government to Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

Taking money by force from the people who earned it to give to people who didn't earn it doesn't promote the welfare of either.

Taxation is a cornerstone of our Constitution. It is the price you pay for living in a great society

Great societies take care of their own

It's hardly the "cornerstone" of the Constitution, but servile boot-licking toadies such as you like to think so. The Founders viewed taxation as a necessary evil, at best. In fact they viewed government as a necessary evil.

- And what makes you think we don't?

 

[RandallFlagg]

And sometimes providing for the welfare of those who most need it promotes the general welfare of all

But the best way to promote the general welfare would be to allow an environment that makes it easier for citizens and charities to provide and more difficult for the government to do so

Actually, the best way is to do it where it is most efficient and effective

Hmmm, no, but government is hardly the most efficient or effective means. How much of the money devoted to poverty programs actually gets to the intended beneficiaries?

Again, LBJ started his "Great Society" nonsense to "end poverty in our lifetime". 50 Trillion dollars later........

Our defense budget has not ended war in our time

My point exactly. War has been going on since the beginning of man. Poverty has been around since the beginning of time. What the hell is your point?

What did Einstein Say about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

 

[Pksimon2007]

Some of us think that We the People elect those who are most in tune with what we expect a government to be

That is not force, that is democracy

Some of us are amoral cowards. Bullying others isn't made right just because your gang is bigger.

If you are being bullied you have access to our court system. The fact that most Americans don't agree with your point of view is not bullying

When the police show up at my door to force their will on me, it is.

Drama queen

Well sir, we'll see in the coming years.

- Yes, we will, and you all will become yet another national joke, where we point to the hysterics of groups in the past and laugh.