Zone1 Question for Christians

[hadit]

Do you really think those are the only two possible choices?

What do you think, should God make it impossible to do evil? I'll even tell you where I'm going with this. If you don't think we should be robots (and I don't think you do), where do you draw the line, on God's definition of evil or on yours? IOW, are you ultimately saying you should have the power to tell God what evil He should stop and what He should allow you to do?

 

[Meriweather]

A large part of the bible is just going on and on, and on about how he loves his people, how he personally cares about his people, how wonderful it is to have a personal relationship with him. It would be a nice gesture if he would at least protect his people from being raped and murdered, don't you think? Not everybody, but at least the ones he considers to be "his people"

Ask God to do what we should be doing/taking care of ourselves? Aren't we capable of resolving these issues?

 

[BULLDOG]

What do you think, should God make it impossible to do evil? I'll even tell you where I'm going with this. If you don't think we should be robots (and I don't think you do), where do you draw the line, on God's definition of evil or on yours? IOW, are you ultimately saying you should have the power to tell God what evil He should stop and what He should allow you to do?

Any god who doesn't consider murder to be evil is evil himself, and doesn't deserve to be followed.

 

[Blues Man]

That's dumb. No one in their right mind chooses that.

Pick whatever you like. You do realize, don't you, that you practice evil in your own life, and if you want God to stop evil, He'll be stopping you as well?

Murder, for someone in relationship with God, is not the worst thing that can happen. Surely you can find something else that checks the box you're trying to fill.

You won't address the question I asked. Should God mold your mind into a robot who simply cannot do anything other than worship Him? If you don't, then you have to acknowledge that He gives EVERYONE the power to choose how they want to act, and that means some will choose to do awful things. Thus far, you've given me no indication of what you'd like other than to control what God stops and what He doesn't. Adultery is evil in God's eyes. Do you want Him to stop everyone who pursues a married person, everyone who has an affair? How hard should they be stopped, just a mind change at a critical juncture or a total mental breakdown at the very thought of doing it? Perhaps a car hits them on the way to the hotel, putting them in the hospital for a few weeks every time they plan to meet someone. Lying about someone is evil. Should every internet keyboard jockey be struck dead every time they repeat a lie about TRUMP! or some other politician? Or, maybe not dead, just struck with a bunch of boils.

Think this through, and what it is you actually think God should be doing. Kind of funny, in a way. Some of the same people who are appalled, just appalled, that God allows people to choose evil get equally appalled when they hear about God bringing judgement on a group of people who have been doing evil for generations, stopping it in its tracks. They don't want God to let evil happen but apparently, they don't want Him to stop it either.

I actually don't practice any "evil". Maybe you can tell me what "evils" I practice on a daily basis since you seem to know so much about me.

And murder is actually the worst thing that can happen to anyone. You want to justify your god's apathy to the suffering of his creations that he supposedly loves but there is no evidence of that.

I don't think any gods "should" be doing anything. I don't care what gods , if they exist, do or want. It is very obvious that if any gods exist they really don't give a shit about us mere mortals just like humans don't give a shit about may flies.

 

[Meriweather]

Any god who doesn't consider murder to be evil is evil himself, and doesn't deserve to be followed.

God acknowledges evil. Part of His purpose is to bring good out of evil.

 

[BULLDOG]

Ask God to do what we should be doing/taking care of ourselves? Aren't we capable of resolving these issues?

That's just absurd. If god is so loving, why wouldn't he prevent the murder of his top followers? Supposedly, god knows the cream of the crop. Those who will stay faithful forever without fail. How do you resolve the issue of being murdered, if you have no reason to believe you will be murdered?

 

[Meriweather]

That's just absurd. If god is so loving, why wouldn't he prevent the murder of his top followers? Supposedly, god knows the cream of the crop. Those who will stay faithful forever without fail. How do you resolve the issue of being murdered, if you have no reason to believe you will be murdered?

And here we go back to Genesis where mankind chose to know both good and evil. Let's work on bringing good out of evll.

 

[hadit]

Any god who doesn't consider murder to be evil is evil himself, and doesn't deserve to be followed.

Who said God doesn't consider murder to be evil? It's one of the original commandments.

 

[hadit]

I actually don't practice any "evil". Maybe you can tell me what "evils" I practice on a daily basis since you seem to know so much about me.

Do you lie? Do you want what your neighbor has? Want his wife? Keep anger towards another? These are evil. Whether you do them daily is irrelevant.

And murder is actually the worst thing that can happen to anyone. You want to justify your god's apathy to the suffering of his creations that he supposedly loves but there is no evidence of that.

I don't think any gods "should" be doing anything. I don't care what gods , if they exist, do or want. It is very obvious that if any gods exist they really don't give a shit about us mere mortals just like humans don't give a shit about may flies.

So you don't think God should be stopping evil? Yet you want to complain that He doesn't stop murder and rape. Don't you see the cognitive dissonance?

 

[hadit]

That's just absurd. If god is so loving, why wouldn't he prevent the murder of his top followers? Supposedly, god knows the cream of the crop. Those who will stay faithful forever without fail. How do you resolve the issue of being murdered, if you have no reason to believe you will be murdered?

Where's your boundary line at which God should be stopping evil and removing freedom of choice?

 

[BULLDOG]

And here we go back to Genesis where mankind chose to know both good and evil. Let's work on bringing good out of evll.

Knowing the difference between good and evil has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Don't get lazy and start spoutng unrelated remarks.

 

[BULLDOG]

Where's your boundary line at which God should be stopping evil and removing freedom of choice?

Stopping evil is not the same as removing freedom of choice. What choice is a devout Christian exercizing when he is the victim of murder?

 

[hadit]

Stopping evil is not the same as removing freedom of choice. What choice is a devout Christian exercizing when he is the victim of murder?

Why do you keep insisting murder victims are exercising freedom of choice? That makes no sense. In fact, you are mixing two major complaints that atheists have, bad things happening to good people and freedom of choice. Both things send atheists into fits.

Now, yes, stopping evil IS removing freedom of choice, because the choices are prevented, thereby removing the freedom. Think instead of feel. You decide to murder someone, but you are stopped every time before you can carry out the action. Where is your freedom to murder someone? You are on the roof of a very tall building and decide to jump off, but there is a very high, thick wall all the way around the perimeter of the roof specifically designed to prevent jumping. Where is your freedom to jump off?

Again, here's the question that so far, both of you have refused to answer. Where do you draw the line with what you want God to stop, His definition of evil or yours? IOW, do you want to be the judge or do you let Him decide?

 

[Meriweather]

Knowing the difference between good and evil has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Don't get lazy and start spoutng unrelated remarks.

The subject was raised in post 886:

That's just absurd. If god is so loving, why wouldn't he prevent the murder of his top followers? Supposedly, god knows the cream of the crop. Those who will stay faithful forever without fail. How do you resolve the issue of being murdered, if you have no reason to believe you will be murdered?

Are we to know good and know evil, but do nothing about either? I pointed out that humans chose to have the knowledge of good and evil. You thought God should stop one human from murdering another. My thought is that since humans chose to know good and evil, it became our own problem to resolve.

 

[zaangalewa]

A stone is inanimate and always was inanimate.

So a stone is a dead thing.

Yes dead is dead what's your point? I know that this already.

How am I not sure of what I believe? Everyone dies it is a fact not a hypothesis.

What's wrong. It is an hypothese if a spiritual world exists. You will be never able to verify your own death in this real world here, so in this what spiritual people call "afterlife" you will also not remember your own death because you are not able to remember what you never percepted. But your wife will verify your death in this world here.

And where did I ever call your belief "stupid"? please quote the post.

Strange - very, very strange. Why do you say such extremely stupid things? Because you think everyone else is an idiot?

 

[zaangalewa]

Pretty sure believing in the existence of of some guy who lives in a cloud and runs everything is a clear sign of mental disturbance.

What you say here is a sign of mental disturbance. More concrete it's an overconfident bullshit what you say here.

But you go on believing that a rational opinion that denies the existence of this fantasy is a "loss of rationality."

Your problem is that you don't know what I know nor what I believe - but you know this is wrong - so you will never try to understand what I - or many many others - could tell you. You do not trust in us because we do not share your form of spiritual belief which is called normally "atheism". And it is a loss of rationality to believe not to believe and to think the same time the own "knowledge" (="belief" in this case ) is the only thinkable reality not only for the own person but also for everyone else. This is different from the religious belief and scientific paradigma "there is only one truth". You don't know and you are not on your own this "only one truth".

 

[BULLDOG]

Why do you keep insisting murder victims are exercising freedom of choice? That makes no sense. In fact, you are mixing two major complaints that atheists have, bad things happening to good people and freedom of choice. Both things send atheists into fits.

Now, yes, stopping evil IS removing freedom of choice, because the choices are prevented, thereby removing the freedom. Think instead of feel. You decide to murder someone, but you are stopped every time before you can carry out the action. Where is your freedom to murder someone? You are on the roof of a very tall building and decide to jump off, but there is a very high, thick wall all the way around the perimeter of the roof specifically designed to prevent jumping. Where is your freedom to jump off?

Again, here's the question that so far, both of you have refused to answer. Where do you draw the line with what you want God to stop, His definition of evil or yours? IOW, do you want to be the judge or do you let Him decide?

What do you expect? A standard Christian remark is that murder is a direct result of free choice. I'm just making the point that nobody chooses to be murdered.

 

[BULLDOG]

The subject was raised in post 886:


Are we to know good and know evil, but do nothing about either? I pointed out that humans chose to have the knowledge of good and evil. You thought God should stop one human from murdering another. My thought is that since humans chose to know good and evil, it became our own problem to resolve.

So that relieves god of the responsibility to care for or about the the innocent ones he claims to love?Even the ones he knows will be faithful forever? Who made the rule that he can't help the ones he says he loves?

 

[zaangalewa]

Perhaps in grmany is is OK to ignore the point of a posting while attacking (unsuccessfully) the points setting up the conclusion but I. for one, don't think that is a lucid approach.

Also, in any language that post was lunacy

No. Read it again. Try to understand what I said to you - or let it be. Your decision ´- not my decision.

 

[Blues Man]

Do you lie? Do you want what your neighbor has? Want his wife? Keep anger towards another? These are evil. Whether you do them daily is irrelevant.

So you don't think God should be stopping evil? Yet you want to complain that He doesn't stop murder and rape. Don't you see the cognitive dissonance?

Everyone lies and FYI the commandments say bear false witness which is a far cry from a little white lie. Telling your wife you liked what she made for dinner even if you didn't is not "evil"

I want nothing anyone else has. I am perfectly happy with my life and my wife. I have let all the anger of my youth go. I bear no grudges.

And thoughts are not "evil" Actions are "evil"

If you hold an angry thought towards a person it does not affect anyone but you.

Murder is an act that takes the life of a person, Rape affects the life of a woman for the rest of her days. You say your god not only knows who will murder and who will be murdered and when and does NOTHING.

Would you stand by and let someone murder you wife and children and as they lay dying in front of you do you get down on your knees and thank your god for it?