Zone1 Question for Christians

[Blues Man]

I'm not God, nor do I follow perfectly everything He requires. If I see someone trying to kill my wife or children, my protective instincts will likely override any restraint I may have. Whether that's right or not is God's call. I must congratulate you on actually reading what I wrote this time instead of ignoring it.

Now, where do you want God to draw the line in stopping evil, where He says evil is or where YOU say it is? Then, how do you account for other people's ideas of where that line is?

I already told you murder. No one who tells he loves you will stand there and do nothing while you are being murdered. Your god knows who will commit murder, knows who that person will murder, knows when and how that person will commit murder and does NOTHING.

That is not a god that deserves my respect at all.

 

[zaangalewa]

I already told you murder. No one who tells he loves you will stand there and do nothing while you are being murdered. Your god knows who will commit murder, knows who that person will murder, knows when and how that person will commit murder and does NOTHING.

That is not a god that deserves my respect at all.

Deserves Georg Elser your respect? He tried to murder Hitler.

 

[hadit]

I already told you murder. No one who tells he loves you will stand there and do nothing while you are being murdered. Your god knows who will commit murder, knows who that person will murder, knows when and how that person will commit murder and does NOTHING.

That is not a god that deserves my respect at all.

Okay, so you have staked out your position that murder is your limit, and that's where God needs to take away free choice. Why stop there? Is child abuse acceptable that you would not have God stop it? What about kidnapping, torture, sex trafficking? I mean, you're having God stop people from doing things, why allow these?

 

[Meriweather]

So that relieves god of the responsibility to care for or about the the innocent ones he claims to love?Even the ones he knows will be faithful forever? Who made the rule that he can't help the ones he says he loves?

God's focus is caring for our souls/spirits. Is your position that He should also take care of our bodies?

 

[Dadoalex]

What you say here is a sign of mental disturbance. More concrete it's an overconfident bullshit what you say here.



Your problem is that you don't know what I know nor what I believe - but you know this is wrong - so you will never try to understand what I - or many many others - could tell you. You do not trust in us because we do not share your form of spiritual belief which is called normally "atheism". And it is a loss of rationality to believe not to believe and to think the same time the own "knowledge" (="belief" in this case ) is the only thinkable reality not only for the own person but also for everyone else. This is different from the religious belief and scientific paradigma "there is only one truth". You don't know and you are not on your own this "only one truth".

I'm a Buddhist.
I don't deny the existence of supernatural beings.
I just don't worship them.
ESPECIALLY a murdering rapist.

 

[Dadoalex]

No. Read it again. Try to understand what I said to you - or let it be. Your decision ´- not my decision.

I read it again.
Still gibberish.

 

[Blues Man]

Okay, so you have staked out your position that murder is your limit, and that's where God needs to take away free choice. Why stop there? Is child abuse acceptable that you would not have God stop it? What about kidnapping, torture, sex trafficking? I mean, you're having God stop people from doing things, why allow these?

Free choice?

You think the victims of some murderer are exercising their "free choice" to be fucking murdered?

 

[BULLDOG]

First: "Hello again". I forgot to give you an answer to this writing. So:

A stone is a very dead thing - what you can see very nice in the idiom someone has a "heart of stone".



That's exactly what I said. "the doctor" is "your wife".



That's "only" your belief. Perhaps our whole universe here is a kind of "afterlife" - who knows?



I can not falsify it. No one can. And I am absolutelly not able to believe our existence makes not any sense. So why exists this universe? Why exist we? Why is not only nothing?



It is stupid what you say here. The moment you say "There is no afterlife" you call everyone stupid who believes in an afterlife - because to believe in something what not exists is stupid.

Calm down buddy. I can't say there is no afterlife for exactly the same reason I can't say there are no unicorns. I see no reason to believe either exists, but I suppose damn near anything is possible. With no more evidence of either, it seems pretty dumb to believe in either.

 

[BULLDOG]

And that's a ludicrous statement to make, very much a strawman. Obviously, the choice to murder to made by the murderer, and it is his/her freedom of choice that I'm talking about.

Again, should God take away the murderer's freedom of choice? What about the liar's, or the adulterer's?

All that would depend on the harm brought to the ones god claims to love. I wouldn't interfere with anybody's free will unless they harmed someone I love. Perhaps your god's love isn't as strong as you think.

 

[BULLDOG]

God's focus is caring for our souls/spirits. Is your position that He should also take care of our bodies?

You don't think harm to our bodies causes harm to our spirits?

 

[Meriweather]

You don't think harm to our bodies causes harm to our spirits?

It does, and God can heal.

 

[BULLDOG]

It does, and God can heal.

Fix it instead of preventing it from being broke? Sounds pretty dumb to me.

 

[Meriweather]

Fix it instead of preventing it from being broke? Sounds pretty dumb to me.

And that takes us back to humans choosing to know both good and evil--the challenge that was selected.

 

[zaangalewa]

I'm a Buddhist.

Interesting. 3-months Buddhist or 30-years Buddhist?

I don't deny the existence of supernatural beings.

Hmm ... I use normally the greek expression meta-physics instead of the Latin expression super-natural. Reason: In a Christian library the books beyong physics are just simple meta-physics. Many things are meta-physics (or super-natural). For example the use of language is super-natural or meta-physics. This words are not as absurde as many atheists like to think.

I just don't worship them.

?

ESPECIALLY a murdering rapist.

?

I hope you don't use alcohol or other "smart" drugs. Drugs and Buddhism is an exhausting combination.

 

[zaangalewa]

I read it again.
Still gibberish.

Okay ... what about not to read what I said to you? Perhaps this makes you happy.

 

[zaangalewa]

Calm down buddy.

Be happy that you never saw me uncalm. Not a nice picture. By the way: Do you know that a unicorn who is angry has two horns? Not? Most people don't know this. That's why they think unicorns are always nice.

I can't say there is no afterlife for exactly the same reason I can't say there are no unicorns.

No. You can not. You are no unicorn. You will die.

I see no reason to believe either exists, but I suppose damn near anything is possible. With no more evidence of either, it seems pretty dumb to believe in either.

Everyone who shares not your own belief is stupid because he makes you lonesome, isn't it? And because you don't like to be lonesome you have to convince everyone else from your own belief - independent from any truth except your own truth. That's your egocentralized mission, isn't it? But you fail to accept everyone who shares not your belief in death as an absolute constant in all your calculations. But for me is such a form to think not very far from the Egypt slavery of death. Everything under the pharaoes had to do with death. But we break the power of death. We say “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

-----
Spruch des Konfuzius

Dreifach ist der Schritt der Zeit:
Zögernd kommt die Zukunft hergezogen,
Pfeilschnell ist das Jetzt entflogen,
Ewig still steht die Vergangenheit.

Keine Ungeduld beflügelt
Ihren Schritt, wenn sie verweilt.
Keine Furcht, kein Zweifeln zügelt
Ihren Lauf, wenn sie enteilt.
Keine Reu, kein Zaubersegen
Kann die Stehende bewegen.

Möchtest du beglückt und weise
Endigen des Lebens Reise,
Nimm die Zögernde zum Rat,
Nicht zum Werkzeug deiner Tat.
Wähle nicht die Fliehende zum Freund,
Nicht die Bleibende zum Feind.

-----

 

[zaangalewa]

Free choice?

You think the victims of some murderer are exercising their "free choice" to be fucking murdered?

They exercised their free choice not to ilve in fear before they had beend mudered forn a damn asshole. I remember a reprot in a newspaper "a million yers ago". A female student was murdered in a park. I was a student too at this time of history - and I was at this day opf teh week at this time of the day also going through this park. But the day when this had happened I visited someone else far away. I whished I had been there so I had been able to kill this murderer before he was able to murder her.

And by the way: Your ideas are indeed our own ideas which are sold under the label "Epicurus" and "theodicy". The Christian Lacantius was the first who found or reported this problem. When I read this "words of Epicurus" the first time in my life I said immediatelly it is impossible that this was said from Epicurus. Epicurus was not able to think in his time of history in such a way. He knew nothing about god.

The text of the theodicy under the label Epicurus (author: Lacantius) is this one:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then from whence comes evil?"
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
~ Epicurus (341–270 BC) Ancient Greek philosopher and sage

Again: Epicurus was not able to say so. The sentence "then why call him god?" had no one understood in Greece at this time of history. "God" was not known. And the gods of the Greeks had not been only good or only evil. So the whole statement made not any sense in the lifetime of Epicurus. It came later and was made from a Christian philosopher - whoever this had been. As far as I know this problem is still unsolved. No one has any satisfying answer to this philosophical problem.

 

[BULLDOG]

Be happy that you never saw me uncalm. Not a nice picture. By the way: Do you know that a unicorn who is angry has two horns? Not? Most people don't know this. That's why they think unicorns are always nice.



No. You can not. You are no unicorn. You will die.



Everyone who shares not your own belief is stupid because he makes you lonesome, isn't it? And because you don't like to be lonesome you have to convince everyone else from your own belief - independent from any truth except your own truth. That's your egocentralized mission, isn't it? But you fail to accept everyone who shares not your belief in death as an absolute constant in all your calculations. But for me is such a form to think not very far from the Egypt slavery of death. Everything under the pharaoes had to do with death. But we break the power of death. We say “O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?”

-----
Spruch des Konfuzius

Dreifach ist der Schritt der Zeit:
Zögernd kommt die Zukunft hergezogen,
Pfeilschnell ist das Jetzt entflogen,
Ewig still steht die Vergangenheit.

Keine Ungeduld beflügelt
Ihren Schritt, wenn sie verweilt.
Keine Furcht, kein Zweifeln zügelt
Ihren Lauf, wenn sie enteilt.
Keine Reu, kein Zaubersegen
Kann die Stehende bewegen.

Möchtest du beglückt und weise
Endigen des Lebens Reise,
Nimm die Zögernde zum Rat,
Nicht zum Werkzeug deiner Tat.
Wähle nicht die Fliehende zum Freund,
Nicht die Bleibende zum Feind.

-----

It's a shame that out of such a large choice of words, you couldn't make a bit of sense about anything.

 

[hadit]

Free choice?

You think the victims of some murderer are exercising their "free choice" to be fucking murdered?

Don't try to act stupid. Who is exercising their freedom of choice, the murderer or the victim?

 

[Blues Man]

Don't try to act stupid. Who is exercising their freedom of choice, the murderer or the victim?

So your god cares more about a murderer's freedom of choice than he does about the lives of innocents.

Like I said that is not a god that deserves to be worshiped