Racist groups vs Free Speech, i've converted...

[Peach]

What conundrum?

"congress shall make no law"

Pretty clear cut.

You can't regulate speech. Period.

Not so clear cut. All freedoms have limitations and must be practiced responsibly. You cant create a false public alarm through speech. You cant threaten bodily harm or defame someone with slander.

It gets a little dicey though when you have to consider the fact that people, especially minorities, feel threatened by Fascists in their streets whether or not there is a direct or explicit threat. Should we allow Islamic extremists to use freedom of speech to actively influence impressionable young people, knowing that doing so puts those youngsters- and the rest of us at risk of bodily harm?

I don't know this for a fact but I suspect that many of those who are marching today for freedom of speech believe that the alt right has a greater right to their speech than Muslims or other minorities do.

The tough question.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

When people publicly profess idea which are clearly contradictory to the most fundamental founding principals of America, it should be considered sedition.

Especially when they are members or allies with a political organization which has engaged in promoting the destruction of the U.S. government and has engaged in genocide (i.e. the KKK and NAZIs)

Many people considered to be Alt-Right do not engage in promoting these ideas, but they should be careful to not be associated with these groups.

That would include many different groups and I think that would come under Espionage Act. Including Muslim Brotherhood groups like CAIR and many of its front groups....

 

[Avatar4321]

If you want to stop hate speech you wont do it with regulation. You stop hate with love. You have to love them.

Not talking about romantic love. Or even liking someone. Im talking about genuine love. Charity. The pure love of Christ that Paul speaks of in 1 cor 13

This love is long suffering and patient. Are you willing to love people enough to suffer for them?

Not many are. Many wont suffer for their family.

But it will be that transformative love that overcomes all.

 

[OKTexas]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right here is the problem, everyone who disagrees with the left is a bigot, racist or what ever, they have to be demonized and dehumanized to justify the hate coming form the left, while they attempt to claim some moral high ground. The reality is this poster and many others are nothing but Alinksy acolytes who wish to destroy the very fabric of the country.


.

 

[Slade3200]

My Intellect is what is driving my argument along with the 1st, 2nd, 5th and 9th and 14th Amendments and the damn Bill Of Rights.

Public Monuments are the property of The Public and you cannot remove them without Due Process!

But Fascist Social Justice Warriors are doing this very thing! If I lived in any of these communities there would be a major lawsuit filed seeking damages in THE MILLIONS if a public monument were removed!



AMENDMENT V
Share
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


AMENDMENT IX
Share
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


AMENDMENT XIV

SECTION 3
Share
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

RESIST THIS BITCH!

There is no discussing Facism, Book Burning, Banning Movies and Literature, & Destroying Historical Monuments for political gain.

So Fuck that shit you serpent tongued Devil. Where was The Left on this issue when they had a Super Majority?

It wasn't an issue so take your fake outrage and shove it up your Fake Ass!

Your Party Leadership already made comments about tearing down The Jefferson Memorial and Washington Monument.

Your party also made commets that they feel The Constitution is an Antiquated and Outdated document that no longer pertains to current America.

Welcome to Venezuela!

We are not going to let your ugly camel head in to our tent.

So Forget it.
Discussion Over!

Go buy some gasoline and a lighter and start your "Book Drive" Fireman!

If you are a biased Ignorant Bigot who only gives a fuck about winning an election and is willing to sacrifice American Freedoms, Divide The Country only because you only Value Political Power, I'd say that's your personal Malfunction and your biased interpretation will suit your agenda.

No Fucking Statue Stopped Barak Obama From Being President in a country where his ethnicity only represents13% of the population.

Fuck your political aspirations for 2018 and 2020 and burn them on the pile of books you want banned. Then throw yourself on the fire with them.

I'll pay to build a monument to your stupidity and your Fascist Agenda.

Where was The Fucking Neo Fascist Left with this issue when Obama was President and The Left held a Super Majority?

Fucking Fascists Hucksters. This is nothing but a Political Publicity Stunt!

You still miss the point. A statue is a symbol and a monument, it is not a biography about every aspect of a persons life. Which is why the argument about Washington and Jefferson being slave owners is not a strong one. There are simple questions that need to be asked... What does this statue stand for? Who is it celebrating or symbolizing? If the answer is that it is a symbol of racism and confederate values then take that fucker down. If it is part of a better story and that is accurately communicated then keep it. If there is a conflict in how it is interpreted then put it in a museum so the full story can be told. I know a little about Lee and I know that he did some good things for his community before and after the war... The question is, is a statue of him in a park symbolizing a racist confederate value or a historical figure?

Calm down drama queen, we are just having a discussion. I've never giving the statues a second thought. If I walked by one i'd probably give it a look then keep on walking. If I notice that a black person saw that statue as a racist symbol or if I saw a KKK group taking photos by it then i'd think twice. Thats what this discussion has done, brought I different perspective to my eyes. I can't deny that those who see those statues as racist symbols have a point in many cases. Most of those statues were erected during a time when the south was instituting Jim Crow laws and making a point that whites still rule the south. That is disgusting and unAmerican. So if there are statues or symbols, like the confederate flag, that celebrate white power in the USA then I have no problem taking them down. I also really like the idea of erecting some Union monuments or black soldiers triumphing over the confederates next to the statues to give context in a way that fits better with our values.

Wow, talk about letting your emotions hijack your intellect. You are a shining example of that... A real snowball. If your done ranting and want to get back to the subject at hand, not relitigating the past and accusing me of things that people I don't know or agree with said, then we can talk. Im sorry to say I don't have much faith in your ability to have a rational debate though. Try taking a walk or something... get some fresh air.

Your intellect left the conversation a long time ago. Go back and read your last few statements, I dare you. It's all emotional ranting and raving. I never said anything to support vandalizing these statues, i've said the opposite. I'm talking about due process you dupe. If you were so emotional then maybe you could actually read what i've been saying and understand it for what it is and not jump to the reactive defensive statements to try and win an argument.

 

[bendog]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

i agree with most of your sentiments, but taking down every statue is still censorship and if its ok to do that with statues you consider representing the slavery of the old south then whats to say other art forms should not be banned as well? why is racism the only thing that matters?

what about art that mocks or criticizes religion? or art work that is offensive to other people for other reasons? You would have to be open to removing all that as well.

Artistic expression is different than statues and monuments in public arenas. I don't like the thought of destroying anything, but maybe they belong in a museum where there can be better education and context about who they are and what they did. If they are to remain in the public arena then perhaps we can do better be erecting Union or black soldiers triumphing over the confederates. I just don't think any black person should need to walk through a plaza with a statue that symbolizes racism. Just as I understand why jews in Germany shouldn't have to walk by Nazi flags and Hitler statues

I like Ole Miss's solution to the statue for the University Greys. They put a placque on the thing basically saying that in the early 1900's as the vets were dying off statues became common, and this one commemorated the bravery of an entire ole miss student class that enlisted and pretty much died to man, most in Pickett's charge. And no political statement is intended. And the put a statue of James Meredith nearby

 

[Dale Smith]

As many other fellow posters, I too face that dilemma as to whether fully allow KKK members, WS and neo-Nazis to openly spew their hatred or opt to stop their Constitution-allowed speech.

It is a tough conundrum. The problem rests with how that hate speech manages to recruit gullible and somewhat ignorant young people to join in that hate-filled ideology.

The best comparison I can make is whether we would opt to STOP radical Muslims to recruit disenfranchised young people to become terrorists for a dubious cause....After all, we sometime monitor what may go on in a Mosque to intervene if that environment is spewing hate filled and violent behaviors......

We all must make a choice regarding our love of free expression, and our desire to be safe from the spreading of more hatred.

Hey, dipshit, this was never about "free speech" or fighting against fascism, you disgusting excuse for a human being. It's about pushing the communist agenda funded by the same elites stupid fucks like you claim to be against.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Hate speech is entitled to Constitutional protections; acting on that hate is not.

Moreover, the right to freedom of expression is not ‘absolute’ – it is not a right to say anything one wishes at anytime, anywhere.

First Amendment jurisprudence affords government the authority to place reasonable restrictions on speech consistent with that jurisprudence – restrictions on speech that are content neutral and ensure ample alternate channels of expression are perfectly Constitutional, for example.

Most importantly, the rights enshrined in the First Amendment concern solely the relationship between government and those governed, not between or among private persons or private organizations.

Consequently, one private person cannot ‘violate’ the right of free speech of another private person.

That’s why private persons or organizations who oppose the hate speech of neo-Nazis, white nationalists, and others on the hateful right are not ‘violating’ the free speech rights of neo-Nazis, white nationalists, and others on the hateful right – the notion that they are is as ridiculous as it is wrong.

Last, those who oppose the hate speech of neo-Nazis, white nationalists, and others on the hateful right have no desire to ‘silence’ or otherwise ‘prevent’ the expression of hate speech, neither through official government action nor through private acts of ‘intimidation’ or ‘coercion’ – to maintain otherwise is a lie.

Are you kidding? ...those on the Left who oppose "hate-speech" (according to their definitions) are desirous of shutting it down.....get real.....

You don't really understand what Clayton is saying do you? Private persons have every right to speak out against hate speech-whatever the goals are. They are exercising THEIR freedom of speech.

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

i agree with most of your sentiments, but taking down every statue is still censorship and if its ok to do that with statues you consider representing the slavery of the old south then whats to say other art forms should not be banned as well? why is racism the only thing that matters?

what about art that mocks or criticizes religion? or art work that is offensive to other people for other reasons? You would have to be open to removing all that as well.

Artistic expression is different than statues and monuments in public arenas. I don't like the thought of destroying anything, but maybe they belong in a museum where there can be better education and context about who they are and what they did. If they are to remain in the public arena then perhaps we can do better be erecting Union or black soldiers triumphing over the confederates. I just don't think any black person should need to walk through a plaza with a statue that symbolizes racism. Just as I understand why jews in Germany shouldn't have to walk by Nazi flags and Hitler statues

I would be all for erecting other statues as well, why not? but that seems to be something more of the past. The last several years it has been all about modern art.

Might be a good excuse to bring back some classic art and sculpture. Jobs jobs jobs... We need artists!!!

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

You know, you are so obviously blind to any violent ones on the left or those calling for that violence, it's sickening.

As many other fellow posters, I too face that dilemma as to whether fully allow KKK members, WS and neo-Nazis to openly spew their hatred or opt to stop their Constitution-allowed speech.

It is a tough conundrum. The problem rests with how that hate speech manages to recruit gullible and somewhat ignorant young people to join in that hate-filled ideology.

The best comparison I can make is whether we would opt to STOP radical Muslims to recruit disenfranchised young people to become terrorists for a dubious cause....After all, we sometime monitor what may go on in a Mosque to intervene if that environment is spewing hate filled and violent behaviors......

We all must make a choice regarding our love of free expression, and our desire to be safe from the spreading of more hatred.

No problem with:

What do we want?
Dead cops!

When do we want it??
Now!

Fuck you!

This fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The issue is not the advocacy of violence, the issue is the advocacy of hate, bigotry, and racism – the sole purview of the right.

Unlike most on the right, ‘the left’ doesn’t seek to disadvantage gay Americans, transgender Americans, women, and Muslims.

And unlike neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and others on the extreme right, ‘the left’ doesn’t practice the hateful bigotry and racism hostile to religious, ethnic, and racial minorities.

Moreover, no one on ‘the left’ condones the violence committed by any faction, which is not the case with neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and others on the extreme right, who condone acts of violence against Muslims, Hispanics, and African-Americans.

Consequently Trump, his apologists, and most others on the right are in fact wrong – it is not ‘both sides.’

 

[ScreamingEagle]

If you want to stop hate speech you wont do it with regulation. You stop hate with love. You have to love them.

Not talking about romantic love. Or even liking someone. Im talking about genuine love. Charity. The pure love of Christ that Paul speaks of in 1 cor 13

This love is long suffering and patient. Are you willing to love people enough to suffer for them?

Not many are. Many wont suffer for their family.

But it will be that transformative love that overcomes all.

Or you can just stop listening to them......and voting for them.....

 

[Avatar4321]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

Yes we even defend your rights

 

[Richard-H]

When people publicly profess idea which are clearly contradictory to the most fundamental founding principals of America, it should be considered sedition.

Especially when they are members or allies with a political organization which has engaged in promoting the destruction of the U.S. government and has engaged in genocide (i.e. the KKK and NAZIs)

Many people considered to be Alt-Right do not engage in promoting these ideas, but they should be careful to not be associated with these groups.

That would include many different groups and I think that would come under Espionage Act. Including Muslim Brotherhood groups like CAIR and many of its front groups....

The same standard should be applied to everyone equally.

 

[Lakhota]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

 

[Lakhota]

As many other fellow posters, I too face that dilemma as to whether fully allow KKK members, WS and neo-Nazis to openly spew their hatred or opt to stop their Constitution-allowed speech.

It is a tough conundrum. The problem rests with how that hate speech manages to recruit gullible and somewhat ignorant young people to join in that hate-filled ideology.

The best comparison I can make is whether we would opt to STOP radical Muslims to recruit disenfranchised young people to become terrorists for a dubious cause....After all, we sometime monitor what may go on in a Mosque to intervene if that environment is spewing hate filled and violent behaviors......

We all must make a choice regarding our love of free expression, and our desire to be safe from the spreading of more hatred.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

 

[Slade3200]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

It is absolutely incredible what is happening in this country. I never thought we would ever see magazine covers like that about our POTUS. He seems unphased... It really is unbelievable

 

[OKTexas]

When people publicly profess idea which are clearly contradictory to the most fundamental founding principals of America, it should be considered sedition.

Especially when they are members or allies with a political organization which has engaged in promoting the destruction of the U.S. government and has engaged in genocide (i.e. the KKK and NAZIs)

Many people considered to be Alt-Right do not engage in promoting these ideas, but they should be careful to not be associated with these groups.

You mean folks like the CPUSA that just love endorsing commiecrats? According to regressives anyone who wants to see our laws enforced are Alt Right and part of a hate group. BTW violently suppressing free speech goes against our founding principles.


.

 

[Richard-H]

How funny is it to hear rightwing bigots of various stripes demanding their constitutional right to oppose constitutional rights?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Right here is the problem, everyone who disagrees with the left is a bigot, racist or what ever, they have to be demonized and dehumanized to justify the hate coming form the left, while they attempt to claim some moral high ground. The reality is this poster and many others are nothing but Alinksy acolytes who wish to destroy the very fabric of the country.


.

Not all Conservatives or even alt-right people are considered racists or bigots by the left. Lot's of their views are respected if not agreed with. Economic populism, anti free trade are a few.

The fact that these people have allowed themselves to become associated with groups that profess extremely un-American views is their won fault.

If you consider the KKK and NAZIS to be part of the 'fabric of this country', then yes, we definitely want to destroy that fabric.

 

[Lakhota]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

It is absolutely incredible what is happening in this country. I never thought we would ever see magazine covers like that about our POTUS. He seems unphased... It really is unbelievable

I agree. I'm almost 71 and I've never seen anything like it. Trump is the first blatantly and dangerously racist president in my lifetime so far.

 

[bendog]

It's been a crazy week and i've engaged in many heated discussions about the events of Charlottesville. I have to admit that i've been greatly conflicted about my anti-racist feelings and my support of free speech. I flirted dangerously close in many discussions to promoting the shutdown of speech for white supremacist groups. I saw them as threats, conveyers of hate speech and given their history which has resulted in millions of deaths I was ok with suppressing their speech and shutting down their causes by whatever means necessary. But, I've had a change of heart.

I think we can be smarter than that and not empower these assholes to strip us of our freedoms. It is a slippery slope once you start suppressing speech. We have legal censorship in a variety of areas which i'm fine with, but shutting down groups from holding rallies, having websites and protesting is only going to lead to bad things. Note that I in no way support any provocation of violence or destruction resulting from rallies or protests. If that happens then shut them down immediately and make arrests.

I would promote fighting these douchebags by ignoring them and minimizing them in a SMART way. Don't lower yourself to fight with them and fuel their cause. Take away their statues and flags that empower them in public forums and show them that our communities outright reject their hateful views. Or construct monuments and statues of civil rights leaders next to the confederate statues and tell the story about how we prevailed and fought agains their hate, and WE WON. Ignore their rallies and don't give them the exposure or attention that they crave. Speak louder and stronger for equality.

I still think that the Presidents comments that minimized the ugliness of the Nazi's and White Supremacists were wildly inappropriate. He tried to spread the blame to the left for the anti-protests and it deluded his message of condemnation that should have been crystal clear in opposition of the hate groups. He should have spread the message in a better way to fight against it. I don't want to relitigate Trumps actions in this OP but I did want to share my change of opinion and open up a discussion about productive ways to move forward that combats the hate and preserves our right of free speech.

Racists have a right to free speech - but they need to once again be subdued and pushed back into their peckerwood holes.

‘MAKE RACISTS AFRAID AGAIN’

It is absolutely incredible what is happening in this country. I never thought we would ever see magazine covers like that about our POTUS. He seems unphased... It really is unbelievable

And I'm not sure what to make of it. Given Trump's past, none of his actions are surprising. I'd like to chalk this up to Hillary being so bad, and our allowing illegal immigrants to be here is a bad joke, but it's hard not to notice a nativist/xenophobic strain to wanted to lower the number of skilled workers we take in.